Hudson's 30 Years Ago Today

[mikefmich]

Hudson's meant their Christmas Lionel train display. I was taken there every year after "the" war [[you know what I mean) to drool over the offerings. Here's a young Ray1936 c. 1948 posing with his layout.

Ray, I gotta hand it to you, I'm drooling here. I still have hold of my Lionel stuff, but I can tell just from one end of your setup, you were way past what I had. My cousin who was about 6 yrs. younger than you had a MASSIVE set up. When my Uncle Ray got back from the South Pacific he spoiled his oldest boy rotten with a Lionel set-up that was the thing of dreams too.

[mikefmich]

Hudson's. Except for our annual Christmas trips down when dad would drive, going with ma meant parking on Canyon by the TV repair place & catching the E. Warren bus downtown. Always all day affairs.

Getting a Maurice salad on the mezzanine. After that ma would let me hit the coin & stamp counter, and purchase whatever I could afford with the change in my pocket.

The attended elevators which could take off like a rocket, the attendant asking "Floor please" with a friendly countenance.

Toyland at Xmas on.....14? OMG........just wow.

The "For Kids Only" shop they set up at Christmas.

I think I was at every parade from 1953 thru 1960. In later years I took my own kids to the parade.

The ding ding one would always hear in the background.

On those childhood trips, ma & I would always stop to talk to the widow of my ma's cousin. Celine worked at the pharmacy counter right by one of the doors for years & years.

As an adult, I bought my very first bedroom set at Hudson's in 1972. The service from the guy that helped me was so impeccable I sent a letter to Hudson's as a glowing endorsement of their fine employee.

The day they finally imploded it, was also the funeral of my favorite uncle ever. One of the saddest days of my life. I'd always hoped some very deep pocket individual would come riding on his white horse and save the place.

I thought we had some photos of the place, but never found them. The only one left was me with Santa in 1953.

[Dan Wesson]

Ha, the elevators, I remember walking across the carpeted floor and reaching to press the button and getting zapped big time by the static electricity.

[DetroitPlanner]

No one remembers the water fountains? I bet some scrapper got most of them!

[Gilmour]

I remember my mother, grandmother and I occasionally shopping at
Hudson's. My favorite memory of Hudson's is going to see the window
display at Christmas with my family. Talking about being old, I was
born in Detroit during WW11 in Providence Hospital.

[Ray1936]

No one remembers the water fountains? I bet some scrapper got most of them!

Narrow base that flared out to the drinking portion. Copper colored, although I imagine they were bronze rather than copper. Absolutely works of art.

[Packman41]

One of those drinking fountains is on display at the Macy's [[former J.L. Hudson's) at Somerset North near the up escalator on the first floor. Brings back memories whenever I see.

Wish I had a picture to post.

[Kimmiann]

Thanks, Wingnatic - I was thinking that very [[Erik Smith & Captain Dennis) question!

[EastsideAl]

Wasn't Crowleys the store with the mezzanine?

Crowley's had a mezzanine that was open and actually overlooked the first floor. With a lunch counter/soda fountain, as you remember.

I had a great-aunt who worked at Crowley's, also in the cosmetics department. My grandmother would lord the superiority of her workplace at Hudson's over her sister-in-law's place at Crowley's every chance she would get. Made for some awkward family parties sometimes.

One thing that I think everyone recalls about Crowley's is the clacking of the wooden escalators that echoed throughout the cavernous ground floor and the rest of the store. My grandmother always openly wondered how my great-aunt could "tolerate all that racket".

[Ben]

I remember Hudson's. My kids were 8 and 10 when it closed. We went shopping their a lot. In fact until 84' I pretty much only shopped downtown. I dragged them down to Hudson's for Santa even when all their friends went to malls. I remember being in tears when the store closed, not because I loved shopping that much, but because I feared it symbolized the end of downtown Detroit and the end of something that was a part of my childhood and something I tried to make a part of my children's childhood.

[A2Mike]

I was living in Chicago in late '82 when I read of Hudson's closing. I had left Detroit in summer of 1977 and Hudson's had been showing signs of decline for awhile but I was quite surprised at the news. At least Hudson's stayed open through the season and closed in January of '83, selling inventory and handling returns etc., unlike Kern's, which inexplicably closed on December 23rd, 1959. As to downtown's overall decline, I think the Renaissance Center played just as big a part, draining tenants from older but still viable properties like the David Stott Building and others.

[Honky Tonk]

Hudson's meant their Christmas Lionel train display. I was taken there every year after "the" war [[you know what I mean) to drool over the offerings. Here's a young Ray1936 c. 1948 posing with his layout.

WHAT!?! No "ZW" transformer??? Go big or go home, Ray!

[Bham1982]

I think Macy's has done itself long-term harm by taking the magic out of department stores. Now, you might as well shop online.

Have you been to the Macys Herald Square flagship lately [[say last few months)? The renovations are pretty impressive.

They're pouring $500 million into a renovation/expansion, and it shows. Fancy new restaurants, more upscale offerings, giant new windows, and marble everywhere.

[DetroitPlanner]

Have you been to the Macys Herald Square flagship lately [[say last few months)? The renovations are pretty impressive.

They're pouring $500 million into a renovation/expansion, and it shows. Fancy new restaurants, more upscale offerings, giant new windows, and marble everywhere.

I don't thing he was talking about pretty. He was talking about service and having full lines of things. Not everyone wants upscale. Sam Walton's daily driver was a 20 year old pick-up and he was one of the richest guys in America at the time.

Stores like Hudsons of 30 years ago are gone. We have settled for the lowest common denominator.

[Ray1936]

WHAT!?! No "ZW" transformer??? Go big or go home, Ray!

Yeah, the ZW came out in 1949, and I was already three years into the layout. Had to settle for the ugly ones. [[ZW had rheostats that were like a throttle on a real train.....great for playing engineer!)

[softailrider]

I don't thing he was talking about pretty. He was talking about service and having full lines of things. Not everyone wants upscale. Sam Walton's daily driver was a 20 year old pick-up and he was one of the richest guys in America at the time.

Stores like Hudsons of 30 years ago are gone. We have settled for the lowest common denominator.

I've heard about that pickup. Also heard that Warren Buffet lives in a 2200 square foot 1950's tri level - but he fly's around in a private jet. I just don't buy any billionaires poor act.

[Honky Tonk]

When I was a young'n, and my folks would take me to Hudson's, I made up my mind that when I grew up, I would run the elevators @ Hudsons. Not only did you get to wear a cool looking, full length, door-man style uniform and cap, you got to choose the floor destination by operating that large, brass, ship-speed type lever. [[or a "ZW" transformer..... hmmmmmm, I think I'm starting to see a pattern emerge.....)

[Sandhouse]

"You got to choose the floor destination by operating that large, brass, lever. [[or a "ZW" transformer..... hmm, I think I'm starting to see a pattern . . .)"

Yup, it's the combined J.L. Hudson / Lionel trains nostalgia syndrome, and I've got it bad.

I can still smell the oil used to lubricate the inner doors of the elevators, and see the red and green lights next to each floor's number, and the mahagony lining of the cars. the operators had a folding seat they rarely got to sit on. I had forgotten about the "ding-ding" announcing the arriving cars, until the post above brought the memory back.

While working as a stockboy for a summer job at Hudson's in the early 1970's, I got to try running one of those passenger elevators just once. It was insanely difficult, and the skill of those operators [[virtually all black women) was considerable. You had to anticipate the deceleration of the car far in advance of stopping for a floor; it wasn't automatic, and I couldn't get the car to stop more than about a foot from the proper place after bobbing up and down like a yo-yo. But the real operators usually managed to stop the elevator floor within half an inch of the floor, and seldom had to say, "Watch your step." I think the rotary controllers were analogous to a DC streetcar controller, with three or more speed ranges that you would use depending on how many floors you were going before stopping. You could go slow, or really crank it up, but you had to start slowing down several floors in advance. I wonder if there is any surviving installation like this anywhere in the world?

Not like the simple rheostat on the Lionel transformers my dad brought home from the 12th floor. I got the LW model for Christmas in 1958, with the cool glowing fifties-looking dial. The number 665 Hudson that came with it is starting to get a bit of chatter in its armature bearing after 55 years, though, and takes heavier lubrication than it used to. The 3-in1 Oil Ray had on his table won't cut it any more.

[Honky Tonk]

"You got to choose the floor destination by operating that large, brass, lever. [[or a "ZW" transformer..... hmm, I think I'm starting to see a pattern . . .)"

Yup, it's the combined J.L. Hudson / Lionel trains nostalgia syndrome, and I've got it bad.

I can still smell the oil used to lubricate the inner doors of the elevators, and see the red and green lights next to each floor's number, and the mahagony lining of the cars. the operators had a folding seat they rarely got to sit on. I had forgotten about the "ding-ding" announcing the arriving cars, until the post above brought the memory back.

While working as a stockboy for a summer job at Hudson's in the early 1970's, I got to try running one of those passenger elevators just once. It was insanely difficult, and the skill of those operators [[virtually all black women) was considerable. You had to anticipate the deceleration of the car far in advance of stopping for a floor; it wasn't automatic, and I couldn't get the car to stop more than about a foot from the proper place after bobbing up and down like a yo-yo. But the real operators usually managed to stop the elevator floor within half an inch of the floor, and seldom had to say, "Watch your step." I think the rotary controllers were analogous to a DC streetcar controller, with three or more speed ranges that you would use depending on how many floors you were going before stopping. You could go slow, or really crank it up, but you had to start slowing down several floors in advance. I wonder if there is any surviving installation like this anywhere in the world?

Not like the simple rheostat on the Lionel transformers my dad brought home from the 12th floor. I got the LW model for Christmas in 1958, with the cool glowing fifties-looking dial. The number 665 Hudson that came with it is starting to get a bit of chatter in its armature bearing after 55 years, though, and takes heavier lubrication than it used to. The 3-in1 Oil Ray had on his table won't cut it any more.

Did your Dad work @ the Hudson's train layout on the 12th floor? If so, my Dad, [[and I, of course), probably bought some Lionel cars from him. I take it your layout is still up and running? Mine is long gone. GREAT story about the elevators. And you're right. I forgot you had to be very skilled @ stopping them just right, to avoid losing passengers.......

[Sandhouse]

"Did your Dad work @ the Hudson's train layout on the 12th floor?"

No, he was an operations researcher, who devised Hudson's method of controlling the cost of selling, and pioneered the kind of cost accounting now practiced by Target and Wal-Mart. He was also a born scrounger, who cruised the "as-is" table in the toy department for slightly-damaged Lionel trains, so I've got three giraffe cars and several of the cheesy "Mercury rocket" flat cars that are now a small collector's item.

More significantly, I've got the wood sign from his office, handmade by Hudson's staff of in-house woodworkers, and a wood desk chair and an ornate hat rack from the wood-panelled exeutive offices on the 11th floor. Also one of the countertop hinged mirrors from the cosmetic department. I found one of these mirrors pictured in the first of the two Arcadia Press books devoted to Hudson's.

I'm told that the drinking fountains were mostly carried off by Dayton-Hudson executives when the store closed, so they're probably in basements in Minneapolis and elsewhere.

[Honky Tonk]

"Did your Dad work @ the Hudson's train layout on the 12th floor?"

No, he was an operations researcher, who devised Hudson's method of controlling the cost of selling, and pioneered the kind of cost accounting now practiced by Target and Wal-Mart. He was also a born scrounger, who cruised the "as-is" table in the toy department for slightly-damaged Lionel trains, so I've got three giraffe cars and several of the cheesy "Mercury rocket" flat cars that are now a small collector's item.

More significantly, I've got the wood sign from his office, handmade by Hudson's staff of in-house woodworkers, and a wood desk chair and an ornate hat rack from the wood-panelled exeutive offices on the 11th floor. Also one of the countertop hinged mirrors from the cosmetic department. I found one of these mirrors pictured in the first of the two Arcadia Press books devoted to Hudson's.

I'm told that the drinking fountains were mostly carried off by Dayton-Hudson executives when the store closed, so they're probably in basements in Minneapolis and elsewhere.

Thanx for the replies, Sandhouse. A lot of good, forgotten memories in your posts.

[Don K]

Thanks. Some years after that photo, I boxed it all up and stored it in the basement of the folk's home. My mother, without my permission, shipped it all to my cousin in Arizona. I look at the prices of that stuff on Ebay today and I cry. Moral of that story? Sometimes mothers DO do dumb things. Sigh.

And dads as well. I had a decent Lionel set when I was younger, and my dad gave it to my nephew when I was in college. Pfft ... gone!

[kryptonite]

No one remembers the water fountains? I bet some scrapper got most of them!

I read years ago, I think in the Metro Times, that many of the chandeliers, water fountains, etc. were shipped to Minneapolis and installed in the department store there that bought Hudson's, I forget the name of that chain. But I guess they are also history now.

[EastsideAl]

That store was Dayton's [[always referred to by my grandmother as "the cheap bastards who ruined Hudson's"). They were the founders of Target, which started as their discount store.

All surviving Dayton's stores have now, like Hudson's, been "rebranded" as Macy's

[Onthe405]

That store was Dayton's [[always referred to by my grandmother as "the cheap bastards who ruined Hudson's")

Al, of course your grandma was entitled to her own perception [[as we all are), but I disagree with the notion that the Dayton-Hudson merge in the late 60s was slumming for JLH. At that point in time, the Hudson & Dayton families were still involved in senior management of their respective iconic stores.


Independently, both firms were profitable, so the merger was not a 'shotgun wedding acquisition' on the order of BofA/Merrill Lynch. Rather, the merger of equals was carefully thought out between them. It was based on a shared heritage of Midwest values and a tradition of high touch service, quality merchandise, and commitment to their respective communities.


As competitors began to diversify product lines, consolidate, and exercise economies of scale in the 60s/70s, Hudson's astutely saw the morphing consumer tastes, and proactively sought out a like-minded partner to expand into new products, one of which was a ready-made discount arm [[Target) that Dayton's had been successful with---but Hudson's hadn't attempted up to that point. I suspect JLH management was flummoxed by observing this profitable market stolen from right under their Detroit noses in the form of SS Kresge's wildly successful K-Mart, and knew they were already somewhat late to the party.


As Howard Schultz of Starbucks says: "If it ain't broke, fix it anyway--because if you don't, your competitors will"


Consumers eventually drove the original Hudson's/Dayton's full-line department store business model [[and its accompanying appreciation & benefits for its employees) into obsolescence--but that's a whole other discussion. However, that merger almost 50 years ago contributed to the present day survival of the company, albeit under the Target flag.