Duggan Fires DDOT Chief - Declares Population Will Be Growing By Next Election 2017

[downtownguy]

Nope.

RTA Act requires unanimous vote of RTA Board and regional vote to take over legacy costs of any existing transit operator.

And there's the rub. Someone with much more first hand knowledge of regional government told me the legacy costs will always be an impediment to merging RTA/SMART/DDOT.

[professorscott]

Nope.

RTA Act requires unanimous vote of RTA Board and regional vote to take over legacy costs of any existing transit operator.

Your premise is correct but there is a subtle difference that makes your conclusion [["nope") not as certain as you think. I will put it in the form of a question, which I won't answer.

Is there any conceivable way for the RTA to implement the routes now being served by DDOT - perhaps, let's say, even using DDOT's buses and maintenance people, drivers and facilities, under some sort of arrangement - without absorbing any of the aforementioned legacy costs?

One thing is completely off the table: the RTA cannot "take over" DDOT. It is theoretically possible [[though highly unlikely) for the RTA to take over SMART, because SMART exists; it is an incorporated service provider owned by three county transportation authorities. DDOT is not a corporation and has no separate existence of its own; it is simply a department of a large corporation [[Detroit).

We live in fascinating times.

[Gannon]

Mike came to Detroit to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and he's all out of bubblegum.

I hope he doesn't lose his sunglasses.


[[For the modern-culturally-challenged: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/im-her...chew-bubblegum )

[motz]

Another excellent^ point that made me go hmmm... The fact that Duggan had a replacement at hand and that the current chief is not having his desk emptied and being frog-walked out of the building but will be hanging around until Sept. does add a bit curiosity to this drama.

It is as if Duggan is gambling he can get things noticeably improved in six months, and more importantly before Orr leaves and democracy returns, that he will have so much popularity and political capital that Council will in his pocket [or afraid of him] instead of being the rancorous obstructionist body it too has often been.

Again, Duggan has been campaigning to become mayor of Detroit for how long? It doesn't take a rocket surgeon [[har har) to go by a bus stop, watch when the buses arrive and compare it to what the schedule is supposed to be. Or to even ask those riders. From there, you get an idea that the system is being poorly managed and start thinking about who you, as a well connected person in both the private and public sectors, know who might fit that role well. It is not that far fetched in reality, just extremely far fetched to think that far ahead in Detroit politics. And I am not saying that is what he did, but that he MIGHT HAVE done that.

[Eber Brock Ward]

Your premise is correct but there is a subtle difference that makes your conclusion [["nope") not as certain as you think. I will put it in the form of a question, which I won't answer.

Is there any conceivable way for the RTA to implement the routes now being served by DDOT - perhaps, let's say, even using DDOT's buses and maintenance people, drivers and facilities, under some sort of arrangement - without absorbing any of the aforementioned legacy costs?

One thing is completely off the table: the RTA cannot "take over" DDOT. It is theoretically possible [[though highly unlikely) for the RTA to take over SMART, because SMART exists; it is an incorporated service provider owned by three county transportation authorities. DDOT is not a corporation and has no separate existence of its own; it is simply a department of a large corporation [[Detroit).

We live in fascinating times.

That's a good point. That said, it would take a hell of a lot of political dealmaking [[or a mass violation of the non-Detroit board members' fiduciary duty) to get the non-Detroit board members to vote "yea" to basically taking over DDOT operations under a non-DDOT flag.

As a city resident, I'd love that, though. No way DDOT's recovery ratio approaches 100%, so the operations subsidy would be paid by the RTA instead of the city, freeing up dollars for city services.

[professorscott]

the operations subsidy would be paid by the RTA instead of the city, freeing up dollars for city services.

Well, remember, Detroiters will be paying into the RTA.

The RTA can ask for funding which will only be sufficient to provide a regional rapid [[or semirapid) transit "skeleton" and leave DDOT and SMART to fill in with local service. However, the RTA could instead choose to ask for funding that would be sufficient to fund both the regional and local services. In the latter case, it would have many optionss how to proceed. If the RTA believes SMART is well run and efficient, it can just pass through funds to SMART; same with DDOT. If the RTA believes either agency is not well run or inefficient, it can choose to operate local service instead of the existing agency.

The latter case might be an easier sell in the 'burbs because in that case the RTA money from the taxpayers, in whatever precise form it might take, would make the SMART millage unnecessary. The Professor has long believed it is easier to sell people on the idea of this new tax/fee replacing an old tax/fee, than on the idea of this new tax/fee in addition to the old tax/fee which we still will collect.

Of course, in any case, the net amount of money going in to transit in the region is more than what we pay in now. In the first case, it's obvious; it's a new tax/fee on top of what's now in the kitty. In the second case, the amount each family pays in will go up a little bit on average but the real kicker is that there would be no "opt-out" communities, so every community's population would contribute. Look at the gaps in the SMART map to see what a huge deal that would be.

[dtowncitylover]

Dan Dirks.

http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/region/...-troubled-ddot

The article isn't much to read, just to namedrop. I really hate it when the press spells SMART, Smart. It's an acronym, treat it as such. SMART certainly is not a smart organization.

[antongast]

Well, remember, Detroiters will be paying into the RTA.

The RTA can ask for funding which will only be sufficient to provide a regional rapid [[or semirapid) transit "skeleton" and leave DDOT and SMART to fill in with local service. However, the RTA could instead choose to ask for funding that would be sufficient to fund both the regional and local services. In the latter case, it would have many optionss how to proceed. If the RTA believes SMART is well run and efficient, it can just pass through funds to SMART; same with DDOT. If the RTA believes either agency is not well run or inefficient, it can choose to operate local service instead of the existing agency.

The latter case might be an easier sell in the 'burbs because in that case the RTA money from the taxpayers, in whatever precise form it might take, would make the SMART millage unnecessary. The Professor has long believed it is easier to sell people on the idea of this new tax/fee replacing an old tax/fee, than on the idea of this new tax/fee in addition to the old tax/fee which we still will collect.

Of course, in any case, the net amount of money going in to transit in the region is more than what we pay in now. In the first case, it's obvious; it's a new tax/fee on top of what's now in the kitty. In the second case, the amount each family pays in will go up a little bit on average but the real kicker is that there would be no "opt-out" communities, so every community's population would contribute. Look at the gaps in the SMART map to see what a huge deal that would be.

If I'm reading the enabling legislation correctly, the RTA is allowed to ask for up to $1.20 per $1,000 of value of each vehicle registered in the RTA region, and no more. Also IIRC there is some restriction to the effect that most of the money raised by this fee has to be spent in the county in which it was raised. Has anyone tried to estimate how much money a vehicle registration fee of $1.20 per $1,000 might add up to in each county?

Or are you speculating that the RTA might request, and obtain, authorization from the state to levy additional taxes or fees above the $1.20/$1,000 authorized by the existing legislation?

[That Great Guy]

Dan Dirks.

http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/region/...-troubled-ddot

The article isn't much to read, just to namedrop. I really hate it when the press spells SMART, Smart. It's an acronym, treat it as such. SMART certainly is not a smart organization.

Dan Dirks did a good job of managing SMART, thus is an excellent choice to run DDOT. This is great news since he knows how to run buses on time and this will help out very much to build a World Class mass transit system in greater Detroit.

[Honky Tonk]

I think right from the beginning, Duggan was out to get SMART....

[DetroitPlanner]

Dirks worked for Duggan when Duggan ran SMART.

[Eber Brock Ward]

Well, remember, Detroiters will be paying into the RTA.

The RTA can ask for funding which will only be sufficient to provide a regional rapid [[or semirapid) transit "skeleton" and leave DDOT and SMART to fill in with local service. However, the RTA could instead choose to ask for funding that would be sufficient to fund both the regional and local services. In the latter case, it would have many optionss how to proceed. If the RTA believes SMART is well run and efficient, it can just pass through funds to SMART; same with DDOT. If the RTA believes either agency is not well run or inefficient, it can choose to operate local service instead of the existing agency.

The latter case might be an easier sell in the 'burbs because in that case the RTA money from the taxpayers, in whatever precise form it might take, would make the SMART millage unnecessary. The Professor has long believed it is easier to sell people on the idea of this new tax/fee replacing an old tax/fee, than on the idea of this new tax/fee in addition to the old tax/fee which we still will collect.

Of course, in any case, the net amount of money going in to transit in the region is more than what we pay in now. In the first case, it's obvious; it's a new tax/fee on top of what's now in the kitty. In the second case, the amount each family pays in will go up a little bit on average but the real kicker is that there would be no "opt-out" communities, so every community's population would contribute. Look at the gaps in the SMART map to see what a huge deal that would be.

Another good post, but my point was about the city's budget, and not Detroiters' individual budgets. I am worried about the city I live in returning to fiscal solvency. The subsidy for DDOT service, under an "RTA assumes DDOT operations" scenario, would be shifted from the City to individuals in the RTA region that own and register vehicles, including individuals in the city.

And those individuals' registration fees would be going to the RTA, meaning that "the operations subsidy would be paid by the RTA instead of the city, freeing up dollars for city services."

Love it, if it can happen. Also love the lack of opt-out. I'm hoping that we get it on the ballot later this year, but it may be wiser to wait til 2016.

[rb336]

I think right from the beginning, Duggan was out to get SMART....

[Honky Tonk]

finally!!!!

[That Great Guy]

I think raising the County Property tax from 0.59 to 2.5 mil is a good idea next August 2014 to pay for frequent SMART bus service connecting downtown Detroit to the airport and Oakland and Macomb Counties and the restoration of service where wanted or needed in the Opt In communities.

[That Great Guy]

I'm hoping that we get it on the ballot later this year, but it may be wiser to wait til 2016.

The baby boomers are getting old, so there will be a big need for public bus service coming soon.

[Gistok]

I think we should fight the freeway expansions and bus service reductions.

The baby boomers are getting old, so there will be a big need for public bus service coming soon.

The time to fight is 2014, right now. Not 2016, when the Bull Dozers come.

Methinks you sound awfully similar to our former "one trick pony" former poster TRAINMAN... who said absolutely ZILCH about anything except extolling mass transit...

[Dexlin]

Well, remember, Detroiters will be paying into the RTA.

The RTA can ask for funding which will only be sufficient to provide a regional rapid [[or semirapid) transit "skeleton" and leave DDOT and SMART to fill in with local service. However, the RTA could instead choose to ask for funding that would be sufficient to fund both the regional and local services. In the latter case, it would have many optionss how to proceed. If the RTA believes SMART is well run and efficient, it can just pass through funds to SMART; same with DDOT. If the RTA believes either agency is not well run or inefficient, it can choose to operate local service instead of the existing agency.

The latter case might be an easier sell in the 'burbs because in that case the RTA money from the taxpayers, in whatever precise form it might take, would make the SMART millage unnecessary. The Professor has long believed it is easier to sell people on the idea of this new tax/fee replacing an old tax/fee, than on the idea of this new tax/fee in addition to the old tax/fee which we still will collect.

Of course, in any case, the net amount of money going in to transit in the region is more than what we pay in now. In the first case, it's obvious; it's a new tax/fee on top of what's now in the kitty. In the second case, the amount each family pays in will go up a little bit on average but the real kicker is that there would be no "opt-out" communities, so every community's population would contribute. Look at the gaps in the SMART map to see what a huge deal that would be.

It should also be mentioned that even apart from the taxing authority and mechanism for the RTA - which is really convoluted if you ask me, it should have been a regional penny sales tax addition, or something, but that's what you get when you let folks who don't believe in mass transit write the legislation - the RTA as of this new year has been designated the recipient of funds for the transit systems in the region. It can use this power as leverage to coordinate service of the two systems, which I hear it's already doing.

So, what the legislation did was essentially merge the two systems, without even having to legally do it, which would have been damn-near impossible. Each system still has its general manager and director, but it'd probably more accurate to think about them, now, as brands, given that the RTA can essentially incentivize and/or threaten coordination with its control of the transit system's purse strings.

On the news, today, with Duggan having been a former transit director, himself, and this new guy for DDOT having been one, this bodes really well for transit in the region in general. They have to find some creative way to accelerate maintenance for DDOT already more than it has been, but this should really help in preventing more service being cut than already has been.

[stasu1213]

I think that a Ridership Board or something should be formed by DDot consiting of those who catch public transit everyday. Those who would sit on this board are volunteers who jobs are to give input on how the busses are running, what improvements should be made from a riders viewpoint, and what type of new busses should be ordered. I commute on the bus during the week. I feel that we need busses the wider aisles such as the Windsor Canada busses have and also seats wife enough to hold two adults. These busses that DDOT has currently were probably ordered by someone or group who dont commuter on bussrs daily if at all.

[professorscott]

it should have been a regional penny sales tax addition, or something, but that's what you get when you let folks who don't believe in mass transit write the legislation

That would have been the best and simplest; the difficulty is that it is not clear that the State constitution allows for local or regional sales taxes, and it was considered too risky to do something that would rely on a constitutional amendment. It is [[and ought to be) difficult to amend the constitution.

[Brian1979]

I wish the head of Saginaw's STARS system would get fired. I rode the bus in Saginaw yesterday, it only runs Monday-Friday. The buses yesterday were running between 15-20 minutes late, Saginaw is a much smaller city than Detroit but STARS only puts one bus on every route except for their route 6 which is their busiest route where they have two buses on it, but the reason for that is because route 6 is actually 2 routes combined into 1.

The buses all leave the downtown transfer plaza at the same time and run every 40 minutes, these routes aren't as long as Detroit's they are only about 9 or 10 miles mostly combined inbound and outbound. They don't run past 8pm or on weekends and it's a poorly ran bus system.

I have rode Detroit's buses before mainly route 53 from the Fairgrounds to downtown and back. I'm not even sure on how often the buses in Detroit are suppose to be running but I have waited at the Fairgrounds for route 53 for over 45 minutes before and this is suppose to be one of the busier routes in Detroit and I'm sure it is since it goes down Woodward.

After riding buses in Chicago at the different times I've been to my place there it's much easier, any city that has a public transportation problem such as Detroit should look at Chicago for an example of how a great transit system runs. I've waited for the buses and trains in Chicago before but never for more than about 10 minutes.

[DetBill]

He proclaimed May 21st-May 27th, 2013, Detroit Techno Week.

Also, it should be noted that while Bings accomplishments were few ,, no matter what he tried, he was systematically blocked by a pathetic City Council,, whatever Bing recommended, they automatically took the other stance.. He on some occasions could have over rode them but generally chose not to [[ not necessarily a good choice) , other times his hands were totally tied.. Duggan does not have to deal with this idiocy, yet, due to the EM. Once he is gone , Im hoping the ship of fools mentality doesnt emerge again.. The jury is out on this one,, The fact that they chose the new President and Cushingberry does not bode well, The more rational ones ofcourse did not vote for them. Im very disappointed in Gabe Lelands stances/voting so far. I thought he wouldnt buy into the old guard.

[Wesley Mouch]

Also, it should be noted that while Bings accomplishments were few ,, no matter what he tried, he was systematically blocked by a pathetic City Council,, whatever Bing recommended, they automatically took the other stance.. He on some occasions could have over rode them but generally chose not to [[ not necessarily a good choice) , other times his hands were totally tied.. Duggan does not have to deal with this idiocy, yet, due to the EM. Once he is gone , Im hoping the ship of fools mentality doesnt emerge again.. The jury is out on this one,, The fact that they chose the new President and Cushingberry does not bode well, The more rational ones ofcourse did not vote for them. Im very disappointed in Gabe Lelands stances/voting so far. I thought he wouldnt buy into the old guard.

The self-serving fights against the EM laws foster a mentality that there was nothing wrong with the old ways. It shouldn't then be a surprise when some voters agree -- seeing the alternative as evil state control driven by Wall Street and multinationals.

Do I recall correctly that Orr can dissolve council? Let's see where Cushingberry takes this game. As Orr becomes a lame duck, it might get to be fun again.

[Gistok]

Do I recall correctly that Orr can dissolve council? Let's see where Cushingberry takes this game. As Orr becomes a lame duck, it might get to be fun again.

No, one of the Cushenberry news articles mentions that Orr cannot remove a council member... only stop paying them....

He did that with Pugh last summer, when he wasn't showing up for council meetings before he resigned.

[hortonz]

With the announcement of Windsor Mayor Eddie Francis' decision to leave the mayor's office after 11 years at the helm, the entire Detroit-Windsor area faces the prospect that when the mayors of Detroit and Windsor meet later this year, both will be fresh faces with new ideas, something that hasn't happened in a long while. This is truly a wonderful time to be living in this region.