Detroit Public Transportation: 2014 and beyond.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Our Uncle can still come up with money for good capital projects. Operating-funding-wise, we're on our own. Your comment about property tax revenues is spot on; yet another reason to try to come up with a different funding mechanism.

We should never put our eggs in a federal basket. Speaking honestly, transportation projects will be one area to see more consistent cuts going forward. Also, it is unpredictable as to what projects federal money will favor. The Obama administration has sought to spend a great deal of money on "high speed rail" projects that I would argue serve massively fewer people than bus & light rail transit projects. Republicans will favor road funding or cuts. We should make plans with money we can raise in Michigan; if federal money comes, great. We can use it. You don't plan your home improvement projects on the assumption you'll inherit money when grandma kicks the bucket: you can't be sure when that will happen or that you'll be in the will. Federal money also tends to come with strings, such as with California High Speed Rail: they are planning* to build the most useless portion first to qualify for federal money. Mandating bad planning to get money is a horrendous way of making transit decisions and good reason to make your own plans.
*The project is not currently moving forward due to a court decision, and unlikely to proceed.

[DetroitPlanner]

Our Uncle can still come up with money for good capital projects. Operating-funding-wise, we're on our own. Your comment about property tax revenues is spot on; yet another reason to try to come up with a different funding mechanism.

Through what program TIGER?? $500 million in cash and how many states, congressional districts, senate seats? This is all the pork that is left. Besides many pork programs in the past were just taken off the top meaning less money for that state to spend on transportation. Zero planning 100 percent politics.

[ABetterDetroit]

Thank you for the answers, I am going to think on this one a bit because of the scale but I will say right now that a property tax to raise that kind of funding is not a good idea. Raising them that much would be extremely devisive and be unworkable and end in failure. To many of us think that the 67 mills currently payed in Detroit is completely ridiculous and has caused people to either not pay them, move to escape them, or just plain lose their homes because they couldn't afford to pay. One only has to see the amount of property on the "why don't we own this site" that are lost to back taxes to understand that a property tax hike in the city would be disasterous, and it would be just plain unsupported in the burbs.

[professorscott]

I will say right now that a property tax to raise that kind of funding is not a good idea.

I agree. Nobody has envisioned raising property taxes to pay for transit improvements. There will be some other kind of mechanism used.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

I would favor a permanent .5% increase in the sales tax in the 4 counties dedicated to transit, with property taxes used only to pay for specific capital projects for a fixed cost and a fixed amount of time. If gas prices weren't at a destructively high level already, I would favor upping the gas tax by a penny every six months for 10 years, and dedicating that to roads and bridges. But not until gas is a dollar cheaper.

[DetroitPlanner]

I would favor a permanent .5% increase in the sales tax in the 4 counties dedicated to transit, with property taxes used only to pay for specific capital projects for a fixed cost and a fixed amount of time. If gas prices weren't at a destructively high level already, I would favor upping the gas tax by a penny every six months for 10 years, and dedicating that to roads and bridges. But not until gas is a dollar cheaper.

Talk to your reps in Lansing. What you propose is against the law.

[That Great Guy]

Talk to your reps in Lansing. What you propose is against the law.

IF well known transit tax advocates get their way, it won't be for very long.

It would take a 1.0 % tax to get a decent public transit system unless somehow we can lower the cost of SMART and DDOT.

The freeway expansion, education and other lobbyists would all have their hands out saying to the taxpayers, vote for kids, fire departments and lots of other goodies, should the State Constitution be changed to allow local or county sales taxes. Thus, mass transit would likely still be underfunded.

I think multiple tax mechanisms should be used, like the ten percent of the State gas tax. Passing a 0.59 or a 1.0 mil property tax or a .5 % Sales tax are not enough without more money from passengers and keeping current federal and state funds and raising other revenue sources such as advertising and employer support.

I live and work on a major SMART bus line. I have a car because the buses don't run enough times for me to get to work. I use the bus when I can and I like SMART very much and the bike racks. I think we should all work to protect and improve mass transit. It is important, if we want to attract quality employers to our area and for safety and quality of life.

[ABetterDetroit]

So, how can we save mass transit?

Still doing math... Does it need to be saved with adding rail or is just improving bus service going to do the trick? Rail offers high profile, glamor and new tech which sells for more cash capture. Bus's are economical, effective but a good bus program has failed around here more times than governors in there second term.

[professorscott]

Still doing math... Does it need to be saved with adding rail or is just improving bus service going to do the trick? Rail offers high profile, glamor and new tech which sells for more cash capture. Bus's are economical, effective but a good bus program has failed around here more times than governors in there second term.

This region is too physically sprawled out to try to do everything with buses. Rail is necessary, but we need to walk before we can run; first we need to have actually reliable and reasonably frequent bus service on the streets.

Ironically, the only certain improvement in the near term is rail. That will be successful primarily because the government has nearly nothing to do with it.

[Tony Codfish]

...

Or it's own website. It's buried on SEMCOG's. And what's there is barebones, outdated and not all that informative.

Get your website game up Detroit.

http://www.semcog.org/RTA.aspx

What are some of the better Transit Authority websites from large'ish cities from around the country? Any first hand accounts?

I'd be interested in hearing both of websites that might be more in-line with Detroit's prospective, near-term transit potentials ... and as well, websites from the very best around the country, regardless of city size or services.

[That Great Guy]

http://www.annarbor.com/news/how-the...east-michigan/

Detroit residents will likely get a chance to vote next November 2014 to tax car registration fees along with the those in Wayne, Oakland, Macomb and Washtenaw Counties. This should enable SMART to better operate in the City of Detroit. Possibly this should be writing?

This is described in the link. There appears to be two separate parts to the funding of RTA using local funds.

Please see how the RTA proposes to fund and coordinate public transit and comment.

Thank you for posting this.

The agreement has NO Federal, State or Industry support from user fees. Just like the SMART Property Tax Renewal of August 2014

So, go ahead DetroitYES people, vote YES. That is your right. It is also your right to vote NO

I'm going to go and ride SMART to work

Thank you for paying for my ride with your property taxes only and a small amount from the fare box.

I pay $4 and you pay $36 for my ride.

[Hermod]

Thank you for posting this.

The agreement has NO Federal, State or Industry support from user fees. Just like the SMART Property Tax Renewal of August 2014

So, go ahead DetroitYES people, vote YES. That is your right. It is also your right to vote NO

I'm going to go and ride SMART to work

Thank you for paying for my ride with your property taxes only and a small amount from the fare box.

I pay $4 and you pay $36 for my ride.

I would interpret the term "user fees" as you paying $40 for your ride.

Different transit systems in the US have widely varying ratios as to the extent of how much their costs are covered by the farebox.

[SDCC]

Here in San Diego – which has a fantastic public transportation system – the buses and trolleys run frequently, are maintained, and are relativity new.
With a “$243 million annual operating budget; $94 million comes from fares.

Fare revenue accounts for 40% of our annual operating cost, one of the highest fare box recovery ratios among similar transit systems”.
“MTS receives funding from various federal, state, and local sources. The primary sources are the California Transportation Development Act [[TDA), Federal Transit Administration, TransNet funds [[local sales tax) and fares”.

http://www.sdmts.com/MTS/About_MTS.asp

Oh, its $5.00 for a day pass - trolley and bus pass
$73.00 per month adult
$18.00 Senior/Disabled/Medicare Monthly Pass

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

SDCC- San Diego is a great city in many respects. We would do well to emulate it in general.

One point I think we all [[including me) forget is that there is in fact probably not just one path forward. We all have our firm preferences for systems, routes and taxes for transportation. The truth is any number of options are possible and beneficial. So while I know what my dream plan is, what my realistic plan is, and how I would like to pay for them, I would be happy with many different things if they panned out. As an online poster and a voter I will support the plans I favor; as someone who uses both a car and mass transit, I welcome anything that makes either experience better.

[corktownyuppie]

Well now this week it comes out the state house wants to defund the RTA this year COMPLETELY.

http://www.freep.com/article/2014022...nsit-authority

Good call on not asking to be funded for nearly three years. Good goddamn call.

Looks like the RTA is going to get their money after all.

The supplemental bill does not add back the $2 million eliminated by the House for Metro Detroit’s fledgling transit authority.

But legislative leaders said a separate agreement has been made to find $2 million for start-up financing for the Regional Transit Authority through adjustments in the Michigan Department of Transportation budgets for this year and next year.

Kahn said the RTA and its member governments will receive a letter of guarantee from the state so the agency can move ahead without doubts about funding.

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz2voJDgZfz

[brizee]

http://metrotimes.com/covers/how-det...nsit-1.1648373

http://metrotimes.com/covers/rta-s-b...rail-1.1648381

A handy guide to the historical fakery of public transit in this area.

This latest stunt, while not the dumbest, has did much to earn it's honor among the hits on this list.

From shitty shortsighted mayors, to incompetent city planners, to the racist, NIMBY voting public.

[brizee]

The aloofness and lack of urgency when it comes to transit around here....you'd almost think this wasn't a severe massive gushing wound problem.

-I'm sick of discussing the state's stupidity so skip it.

-The lack of pressing Hertel to sign the contract and subsequent delay of putting fund vote to 2016 has also already been brought up before.

-Now the counties are getting in on the stupidty. ALL parties involved the initial setup for the county board representitives were staggered. One rep from the county would serve one year whilre his replacement would serve three. The other would serve three off of the bat.

The search for a new CEO has been delayed again.

Appearantly other than Washtenaw, county leaders can't tell time for something as simple one year after an initial creation of the board so more time is needed to select reps. It's funny how Ann Arbor/Washtenaw is the only group with skin in the game in the form of this Detroit/AA commuter line and they're also the only ones who seem to have a clue.

-The Citizens Advocacy Council is supposedly there to give the community a voice the RTA will listen to. How would we contact them?

This rinky dink incomplete list sure doesn't help.

Does the website even tell you how the CAC is structured?

Nope you have to read the twitter of one of the elected leadership structure for that.

-Lines OTHER than Woodward are finally being brought up by the RTA but they're preliminary.

The Cleveland BRT which seems to be keep thrown at us as the holy grail of transportation took three years to construct seven miles.

TPTB are suggesting THREE seperate lines at 30 and at least 15 miles a piece. And they don't even have the possibility of starting before the end of the year 2016.

Do you realize it is going to be 2022 before we see a single benefit from Snyder killing the 9.3 mile Woodward light project?

It's this kind of incompetence that fuels conspiracy theorists into thinking there's sabotage from within.

PS. It's April and M-1 still hasn't started construction yet. And why is it gonna take three years to install three miles of track anyway?

[RO_Resident]

PS. It's April and M-1 still hasn't started construction yet. And why is it gonna take three years to install three miles of track anyway?

Have you been downtown in the past 3 or 4 weeks? You can't shake a stick without hitting a utility relocation crew.

* The intersection of CM and Michigan was reduced to 1 lane for ~a week.
* Crews were sending traffic the wrong way down State Street by Woodward because of utility relocation and Archdiocese construction earlier this week.
* Portions of CM have been closed or reduced lanes for a good 4 weeks.
* Woodward NB between Congress and CM is currently down to 1 lane.

Utility locators have been marking up Woodward north of I-75 the past 3 weeks.

Construction has started.

[RO_Resident]

University of Detroit Mercy has been working on a comprehensive report of transit in the region. They compared our region to several peer regions. There is a lot to chew on...

A Study of Factors that Inhibit and Enable Development of Sustainable Regional Transit Systems in Southeastern Michigan
[[PDF 2.1MB)
Principal Investigator: Leo Hanifin, ME, DE


ABSTRACT


An interdisciplinary team of six faculty members and six students at the University of Detroit Mercy [[UDM) conducted a comprehensive study of the factors enabling or inhibiting development of effective regional transit. Focusing on Metro Detroit and four peer regions—Atlanta, Cleveland, Denver, and St. Louis—investigators examined six key variables in transit success: 1) leadership and politics, 2) governance and law, 3) finance, 4) transit-oriented development [[TOD), 5) equity and access, and 6) media and public opinion. These elements were studied in the context of Detroit transit history with respect to lessons learned, recent developments in Metro Detroit, and comparisons and recommendations.
http://transweb.sjsu.edu/project/1136.html

[brizee]

I'll have to set aside some time this weekend to really bite into all that.

I've taken classes instructed by two of the contributing professors. It should be interesting.

[stasu1213]

Here in S






























an Diego – which has a fantastic public transportation system – the buses and trolleys run frequently, are maintained, and are relativity new.
With a “$243 million annual operating budget; $94 million comes from fares.

Fare revenue accounts for 40% of our annual operating cost, one of the highest fare box recovery ratios among similar transit systems”.
“MTS receives funding from various federal, state, and local sources. The primary sources are the California Transportation Development Act [[TDA), Federal Transit Administration, TransNet funds [[local sales tax) and fares”.

http://www.sdmts.com/MTS/About_MTS.asp

Oh, its $5.00 for a day pass - trolley and bus pass
$73.00 per month adult
$18.00 Senior/Disabled/Medicare Monthly Pass

when I had mentioned that the revenue generated from ridership naysayers on this site would say the transportation system is not for profit or there is not enough money generated through ridership which is misinformation

[brizee]

*SEMCOG/RTA website is still a massacre. 3 board members were supposed to be replaced last March. Were they? How the hell should anyone know.? The website certainly doesn't help.

*Today is supposed to be the interview day for the CEO of this so-called RTA. Two more Michigan retreads and a failure from New Orleans. Sure glad we didn't hire someone with experience in something difficult, like the candidate who coordinated service between two states[[IL + MO). I wonder if they'll insist on a contract being signed this time? Not that it's that important.

Also glad they dicked around and won't put anything to vote till 16. It'll be 8 YEARS
since this castrated "Authority" was created AT THE LEAST before the public will see any benefit.
*M1 rail continues to not be be in active construction. Current ETA is "summer". Last eta was "spring". Of course I remember when ground was supposed to be broke all the way back in fall 2012. And isn't the repavement of Woodward tied to this mess? Speaking of.

*Roads all over are still a shitty embarassment.

[professorscott]

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...ed-to-lead-rta

It's Mr. Ford, if he takes the job. He's actually been involved in transit at various levels in several places.

[mwilbert]

when I had mentioned that the revenue generated from ridership naysayers on this site would say the transportation system is not for profit or there is not enough money generated through ridership which is misinformation

I am unable to understand what you are saying. The information you quoted shows that they are only able to pay 40% of the cost of operating the system from fares. Perhaps you could clarify the point you are trying to make.

[That Great Guy]

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...ed-to-lead-rta

It's Mr. Ford, if he takes the job. He's actually been involved in transit at various levels in several places.

I want someone like Mr. Henry Ford to run the RTA who can make public bus service affordable for everyone

But, Mr. Ford of the AATA will do just fine. I'm sure he can raise a tax for the RTA. That will make y'all so happy.

People are soooooo starved for mass transit in southeast Michigan that someone can take a bag of dog food and label it mass transit and the voters will eat if all up by checking YES for a tax increase.

Maybe it's time to give the capitalist free market a chance by allowing competition? I think that is the answer, if we can't get someone to fill up the buses.