everything happening around brush park but nothing in brush park....

[jt1]

Not sure being that close to 3 sports arenas and 2 freeways is such a good thing. Sounds loud and annoying

I suspect that people looking to buy in or around downtown aren't expecting a quiet existence.

[Bham1982]

Yes, it is a great location. it is central to everything and will be situated directly on the m1 rail.

If it's such a "great location", then why is nothing happening there, and 80% vacant, when 300k-400k homes are going up like wildfire in mediocre locations 50 miles from Detroit?

You have a big developer with deep pockets and an urban agenda sitting there on land with site approvals, and a local govt. willing to provide extensive subsidies. They could break ground tomorrow, but they don't seem eager to build. My guess is that Crosswinds had trouble with the initial phases, and are gunshy about any more housing in the area.

the population is relatively upwardly mobile. condos are selling for 200k in Woodward Place and renting for 1600+

Those aren't high prices for luxury new construction. Im willing to wager the neighborhood population is very high poverty with low median household income. It's a big risk from the developer perspective, and deep subsidies are necessary.

[jt1]

You have a big developer with deep pockets and an urban agenda sitting there on land with site approvals, and a local govt. willing to provide extensive subsidies. They could break ground tomorrow, but they don't seem eager to build. My guess is that Crosswinds had trouble with the initial phases, and are gunshy about any more housing in the area.

I certainly hope you aren't speaking about Crosswinds. They lost their ass nationally and are no longer building in Michigan. If they own the land, they are nothing more than a land speculator, not a developer.

[Honky Tonk]

Not sure being that close to 3 sports arenas and 2 freeways is such a good thing. Sounds loud and annoying

Add "congested", and you're pretty much there.

[samsonov]

If it's such a "great location", then why is nothing happening there, and 80% vacant, when 300k-400k homes are going up like wildfire in mediocre locations 50 miles from Detroit?

You have a big developer with deep pockets and an urban agenda sitting there on land with site approvals, and a local govt. willing to provide extensive subsidies. They could break ground tomorrow, but they don't seem eager to build. My guess is that Crosswinds had trouble with the initial phases, and are gunshy about any more housing in the area.



Those aren't high prices for luxury new construction. Im willing to wager the neighborhood population is very high poverty with low median household income. It's a big risk from the developer perspective, and deep subsidies are necessary.

Really? Not sure about the rest of Brush Park, but my wife and I aren't "very high poverty" doctor and patent lawyer respectively. All our neighbours have good jobs and seem to be well off. Have you ever been to Brush Park and met any of the people who live here?

[jt1]

Really? Not sure about the rest of Brush Park, but my wife and I aren't "very high poverty" doctor and patent lawyer respectively. All our neighbours have good jobs and seem to be well off. Have you ever been to Brush Park and met any of the people who live here?

Paraphrasing Bham: If you ain't from Bham or the Bloomfields, you ain't shit.

[Sehv313]

The entire southern third of Brush Park was razed for those suburban townhouses.

The only new development I liked in the city were the houses built on Woodward and Bethune/Delaware St....every other development looks too suburban... & NOT-Detroit! ...and not brick either!

[401don]

Are there any abandoned houses left or have they all been razed or rehabbed?

[Wheels]

Are there any abandoned houses left or have they all been razed or rehabbed?

Only about 40,000.

[ScienceFair]

Only about 40,000.

There are still a handful of vacant houses in Brush Park, but most have been razed.

[Bham1982]

Really? Not sure about the rest of Brush Park, but my wife and I aren't "very high poverty" doctor and patent lawyer respectively. All our neighbours have good jobs and seem to be well off. Have you ever been to Brush Park and met any of the people who live here?

You might not be "very high poverty" but you have very poor understanding of neighborhood means and medians.

You could be Bill and Melinda Gates for all I care. One household does not mean much when calculating neighborhood-level data. Your anecdotes about rich neighbors are contradicted by Census data.

[Bham1982]

Per the Census, in the 2010 Census, 13% of Metro Detroit's households lived under the poverty line.

In Brush Park, for half the blocks, more than 50% of households lived under the poverty line, and for the other half, between 30% and 50% of households lived under the poverty line.

http://www.semcog.org/uploadedFiles/Data_and_Maps/Map_library/Households_in_poverty_byBG_2010.pdf

[jt1]

Per the Census, in the 2010 Census, 13% of Metro Detroit's households lived under the poverty line.

In Brush Park, for half the blocks, more than 50% of households lived under the poverty line, and for the other half, between 30% and 50% of households lived under the poverty line.

http://www.semcog.org/uploadedFiles/Data_and_Maps/Map_library/Households_in_poverty_byBG_2010.pdf

Two things to consider:

1. In 2010, there were a lot of empty/foreclosed units in the newer condos. Since then, pretty much all of it has been filled back up.
2. A number of the units are renters and those renters are med students, grad students, etc who likely do not have much income but don't fall into the same bucket when it comes to spending.
3. I don't have any data but I would be willing to bet a number of people that live in Midtown list addresses elsewhere to reduce auto insurance and dodge income tax. Reduce income tax and get auto insurance in line and I can assure you that there will be a huge increase in population in midtown even in nobody else moves in.

While your information is technically correct, I can assure you that it does not translate to reality in the area being discussed

[DetroitPlanner]

3. I don't have any data but I would be willing to bet a number of people that live in Midtown list addresses elsewhere to reduce auto insurance and dodge income tax. Reduce income tax and get auto insurance in line and I can assure you that there will be a huge increase in population in midtown even in nobody else moves in.

While your information is technically correct, I can assure you that it does not translate to reality in the area being discussed

Then these people are not residents. They are deadbeat carpetbaggers who are shifting the real cost of government and their insurance onto others. IMO these folks are bigger drains on the system than the impoverished as they do have the means to pay but they choose not to, only to make it harder on those with less means.

[jt1]

Then these people are not residents. They are deadbeat carpetbaggers who are shifting the real cost of government and their insurance onto others. IMO these folks are bigger drains on the system than the impoverished as they do have the means to pay but they choose not to, only to make it harder on those with less means.

I agree 100% however it is reality. Frustrating, but reality.

[Detroitnerd]

You might not be "very high poverty" but you have very poor understanding of neighborhood means and medians.

You could be Bill and Melinda Gates for all I care. One household does not mean much when calculating neighborhood-level data. Your anecdotes about rich neighbors are contradicted by Census data.

Actual File Photo of Bham1982

[motz]

Then these people are not residents. They are deadbeat carpetbaggers who are shifting the real cost of government and their insurance onto others. IMO these folks are bigger drains on the system than the impoverished as they do have the means to pay but they choose not to, only to make it harder on those with less means.

Ha, that's awesome assuming that the people who live in Detroit but keep suburban addresses can afford the auto insurance. Seriously, I know plenty of people who, simply put, can barely afford their current insurance, let along a couple hundred dollar a month premium increase. These are also people who shop local, buying all their food and necessities in Detroit. These are people who eat at local, small businesses and shop for their presents at local retailers. These are people that use Detroit gas stations. These are people who, for all areas except the location on their address, are active members of the city.

But I'm sorry, continue on how these people are terrible scum. Instead of addressing the core issue, the scam system that is insurance, lets attack the people who, many times, can't afford to partake in that scam system. They are to blame!!

[DetroitPlanner]

Ha, that's awesome assuming that the people who live in Detroit but keep suburban addresses can afford the auto insurance. Seriously, I know plenty of people who, simply put, can barely afford their current insurance, let along a couple hundred dollar a month premium increase. These are also people who shop local, buying all their food and necessities in Detroit. These are people who eat at local, small businesses and shop for their presents at local retailers. These are people that use Detroit gas stations. These are people who, for all areas except the location on their address, are active members of the city.

But I'm sorry, continue on how these people are terrible scum. Instead of addressing the core issue, the scam system that is insurance, lets attack the people who, many times, can't afford to partake in that scam system. They are to blame!!

These condos all have deeply discounted taxes and they pay less property tax than I do. I never had an issue paying my car insurance, but then again I am a responsible driver with a good credit score. More than likely anyone living in these Brush Park developments are driving a much nicer car than I am. These folks are high maintenance moochers. More than likely they do not call their daddy's police department in Rochester Hills when they get broken into, they call the DPD. They are also using DPW's roads and garbage pick-up. They are gaming the system to the detriment of society as a whole. If every car that was supposed to be registered in Detroit actually was, you would see insurance premiums plummet for everyone.

[jt1]

These condos all have deeply discounted taxes and they pay less property tax than I do. I never had an issue paying my car insurance, but then again I am a responsible driver with a good credit score. More than likely anyone living in these Brush Park developments are driving a much nicer car than I am. These folks are high maintenance moochers. More than likely they do not call their daddy's police department in Rochester Hills when they get broken into, they call the DPD. They are also using DPW's roads and garbage pick-up. They are gaming the system to the detriment of society as a whole. If every car that was supposed to be registered in Detroit actually was, you would see insurance premiums plummet for everyone.

Agreed with all it except the garbage part. The city assesses all homes $300 for garbage.

[motz]

These condos all have deeply discounted taxes and they pay less property tax than I do. I never had an issue paying my car insurance, but then again I am a responsible driver with a good credit score. More than likely anyone living in these Brush Park developments are driving a much nicer car than I am. These folks are high maintenance moochers. More than likely they do not call their daddy's police department in Rochester Hills when they get broken into, they call the DPD. They are also using DPW's roads and garbage pick-up. They are gaming the system to the detriment of society as a whole. If every car that was supposed to be registered in Detroit actually was, you would see insurance premiums plummet for everyone.

The condos? Sure, you need money to live there and they most likely can afford it. But to go out and call all people who don't keep their addresses in the city carpetbaggers is a bit unfair.

The insurance issue is HUGE for a lot of younger people either in college or fresh out of college. It is simply not affordable by any means without relying on someone else [[ex. Parents) paying for it. Yeah, getting more people into the system would help bring premiums down, but I can almost promise they will still be absurdly higher than any surrounding city. Reform at the state level is what needs to take place.

edit: Also the Brush Park developments are ugly and I can only hope they don't plop down any more mediocre town homes into an area that doesn't deserve such bad things.

[Huggybear]

The condos? Sure, you need money to live there and they most likely can afford it. But to go out and call all people who don't keep their addresses in the city carpetbaggers is a bit unfair.

It's not unfair at all. Do you like "tourists" better?

They consume incremental services [[important to note where residential property is a loser in terms of expense/tax revenue), they tell stories to insurers, they often use the same adddresses to short Detroit on income taxes, their insurance incidents end up on Detroit's loss history, and the positive aspects of their insurance profile [[such as positive driving records or low number/magnitude of losses) don't get counted for the Detroit insurance pool. And when things go south, they write invective essays about how Detroit screwed them over. So in many ways, they end up being an expense for everyone else.

And don't drag out the tired "still spending money in Detroit." Legit Detroiters and suburbanites do that anyway - and although additional dollars spent help the local economy, the incremental effect to the city's financial situation from spending a dollar at a Detroit business is almost nil. Not only is there is no local sales tax capture, but the remaining 94 cents of your dollar spent also go to businesses that for various reasons, legal, illegal and incidental, often don't end up contributing to the tax base - let alone as a result of your incremental spending.

Your complaints about the insurance system being unreasonably expensive are self-serving. Should we stop paying our state and federal taxes because we feel they present unfair burdens or are part of a structurally inefficient system? Should we dump tires on a vacant lot because it "doesn't hurt anyone?" Should we run red lights? This city is a mess as a result of millions of self-directed nullifications of the law, rationalized one by one.

HB

[DetroitPlanner]

Regarding insurance costs, I was just turned onto a new program that will compare over 1,300 insurance providers. My cost for car insurance is just over $1 per day for better but not best level. This includes bundling my home insurance for an additional amount which I have yet to look at. https://www.thezebra.com/

[casscorridor]

What some certain sour folks on this thread don't realize is the medium to long term picture. Brush Park WILL be redeveloped into an upper-middle class area of greater Downtown. Rumor has it, a Target and perhaps other big box stores may replace the Brewster Projects which are currently being demolished, in addition to some sort of residential component. In real estate, location is everything and there couldn't be a better location. To the east is the Eastern Market district, to the south is Downtown, the north is Whole Foods and the Medical Center, to the west is the future arena district. It just makes sense that this area will be developed at a high intensity in the medium-long term.

[casscorridor]

Oh, and the longer term trend will be flow of wealth back into the city in general and a fairly radical reorganizing of the city's geography and demographics. This reorganization will not follow the Detroit Works Plan. Many of the areas most targeted for depopulation in DWP will actually be the areas of the most interest to redevelopment, as evident by Hantz Farm, while the reverse will be true in some of the "stable" areas further out from the core that are essentially suburban and offer a loosing alternative to the actual suburbs. It's silly to try to beat a place like Oakland County at something they have perfected so perfectly-- suburban sprawl. The city is going to thrive not by being more like the suburbs but being more like THE city.

[mwilbert]

Oh, and the longer term trend will be flow of wealth back into the city in general and a fairly radical reorganizing of the city's geography and demographics. This reorganization will not follow the Detroit Works Plan. Many of the areas most targeted for depopulation in DWP will actually be the areas of the most interest to redevelopment, as evident by Hantz Farm, while the reverse will be true in some of the "stable" areas further out from the core that are essentially suburban and offer a loosing alternative to the actual suburbs. It's silly to try to beat a place like Oakland County at something they have perfected so perfectly-- suburban sprawl. The city is going to thrive not by being more like the suburbs but being more like THE city.

Of course predictions about the medium to distant future are naturally error-prone, but I think Detroit Future City actually has it more or less right about the areas that are likely to be populated in the future. Hantz Farm may [[arguably) be redevelopment, but it isn't repopulation. However, I agree that Brush Park is probably the most obvious location for future development.