Austin Points The Way: More Freeways AREN'T the Answer to Traffic

[Wesley Mouch]

Austin has only one interstate running through town not only one freeway. There are many freeways and toll ways that are up to interstate standards, but they can't keep up with the growth. Austin's traffic is often nightmarish because the population has been increasing by about 5,000-6,000 a month. Austin is model city for just about everything except anything related to transportation.

Based on my last few visits back to Michigan I would say any money available for roads should go for maintenance over capacity. Some of the freeways are in horrible condition.

Please don't bring facts to this discussion.

So Austin is building freeways AND considering smarter mass transit? Good for them.

Does anyone else think that this DY is debating the difference between horse drawn trolley and steam powered busses?

I don't know what will be next in transportation, but I'll bet its gonna change. Into what? I don't know. But the idea that transit is either gas-powered cars or 12-car trains is going to be the past sometime really soon.

Google cars work. Ford's talking about adaptive cruise control as a reality in next few years. Much light rail is now driverless a la People Mover. There will be new modes of personal and mass transit coming at us made by 3D printers made by engineers from gay Iranians before you know it.

[casscorridor]

Austin will continue to build up its Downtown for the niche "urban" market, but like the rest of Texas, sprawl is the M.O. Although I can see Austin investing much more heavily in transit than Detroit, like most other cities.

[Scottathew]

Austin also has - believe it or not - only one freeway running through the city. With the suburbs filling up along with the city, rush hour gridlock has become a serious, serious problem.

I choose not to believe that Austin only has one freeway. Why? Because it's simply and undeniably NOT true.

Austin has the following freeways within its city limits:

I-35
MoPac Expressway [[Loop 1)
US-183
US-290
SH-45
SH-71

If you wanted to be accurate, and accurately quote the article you would have said, "Austin has only one interstate [freeway, expressway]".

I don't understand why the NPR article wants to make the point about how many interstate freeways it has. It's not as relevant what kind of classification they have in terms of regional traffic as the amount of regional freeways regardless of classification.

You mentioned in a later post that you felt if we gave I-75 additional capacity that you felt we'd see more distant sprawl-villes pop up near I-75. I support freeway expansion, but I simply can't deny that point. The more we expand I-75, the more viable living in these far away communities is.

I'm in favor of the I-75 expansion between M-102 and M-59, but I'm also heavily in favor of a regional mass transit solution as well. The big problem is that aside from a less than 4 mile yet-to-be-built section of rail and two dis-jointed bus systems, we've got nothing.

I live near Auburn [[21 Mile) and John R. and there are simply ZERO mass transit options. The buses come nowhere near this area.

I've always been in favor of people being free to live where they want, but recently I've started to see the environmental costs to that. I fear it may not be feasible to continue on like we are, and efficiencies will be needed.

The best thing I can think of is a solid unified regional bus system in the next five years, one that extends much deeper into the suburbs. Ridership will be low at first, but if we stick with it people may adjust their attitudes.

In the long term we need a form of mass transit that has efficiencies when compared to the road network, not one that utilizes the road network.

I'm excited about M1 Rail, but I don't really understand why it would be better than the bus service that's currently on Woodward. Buses seem much more flexible and able to handle failure, while a failure on a rail network would prevent functioning rail cars from progressing.

I would much rather in the long term see a subway to elevated system going from Woodward to Pontiac. A system that is FASTER than going by car and services an established corridor. We would see property values and densities rise near stations through Detroit and the suburbs.

A successful subway\elevated rail along Woodward could pave the way for similar investments along other established corridors.

Expressway expansion is still needed, but we need to give people desirable options, not just force them to use mass transit by making road networks unusable.

[Novine]

"Expressway expansion is still needed, but we need to give people desirable options, not just force them to use mass transit by making road networks unusable."

Where? I can't think of anywhere in Metro Detroit where there is a need for more freeway capacity. We keep shuffling the same 4 million people around the MSA, going deeper into debt as we keep building infrastructure that we can't afford to maintain over the long haul. At some point, you have to stop digging the hole deeper.

[Gistok]

This entire thread is redundant... I don't understand the need for 2 threads arguing the same thing....

[Hermod]

This entire thread is redundant... I don't understand the need for 2 threads arguing the same thing....

Three, Cinncy, Austin, and Death of Detroit.

[Scottathew]

"Expressway expansion is still needed, but we need to give people desirable options, not just force them to use mass transit by making road networks unusable."

Where? I can't think of anywhere in Metro Detroit where there is a need for more freeway capacity. We keep shuffling the same 4 million people around the MSA, going deeper into debt as we keep building infrastructure that we can't afford to maintain over the long haul. At some point, you have to stop digging the hole deeper.

The I-75 and I-94 projects are needed, just as I would argue a subway\elevated rail project on Woodward is needed.

Also, I would complete I-275, there should be a section between it's northern terminus and I-75 west of where Dixie Highway is, near Springfield Township. The completion of I-275 would take a lot of through traffic out of a very congested corridor.

[Cliffy]

"Expressway expansion is still needed, but we need to give people desirable options, not just force them to use mass transit by making road networks unusable."

Where? I can't think of anywhere in Metro Detroit where there is a need for more freeway capacity. We keep shuffling the same 4 million people around the MSA, going deeper into debt as we keep building infrastructure that we can't afford to maintain over the long haul. At some point, you have to stop digging the hole deeper.

We can afford it. Money is not the problem.

[Novine]

Why would you need capacity on 75 if 275 was extended?

[Scottathew]

Why would you need capacity on 75 if 275 was extended?

If we had a plan to complete I-275 in the near future I feel we could put off the I-75 expansion for quite a while, if not several decades.

However, even if we wanted to complete I-275 I think it would take a bare minimum of a decade to go from idea until the first shovel in the ground.

[casscorridor]

If we had a plan to complete I-275 in the near future I feel we could put off the I-75 expansion for quite a while, if not several decades.

However, even if we wanted to complete I-275 I think it would take a bare minimum of a decade to go from idea until the first shovel in the ground.

this is a horrible idea.

we don't need any new freeway expansion.

Detroit is a shrinking region inside a shrinking state.

we do need high-speed rail transit though. make this city viable as a progressive, forward-looking place.

[313WX]

this is a horrible idea.

we don't need any new freeway expansion.

Detroit is a shrinking region inside a shrinking state.

we do need high-speed rail transit though. make this city viable as a progressive, forward-looking place.

^^^Pretty much this.

[Wesley Mouch]

this is a horrible idea.

we don't need any new freeway expansion.

Detroit is a shrinking region inside a shrinking state.

we do need high-speed rail transit though. make this city viable as a progressive, forward-looking place.

We need both. Its not either or.

[Novine]

Why? What through traffic is currently using 75 that would shift to an extended 275?

[Cliffy]

Why? What through traffic is currently using 75 that would shift to an extended 275?

They would shift away from US-23.

[DetroitPlanner]

They would shift away from US-23.

And also from I-96 which is also a congested mess. Regardless the extension was killed over 25 years ago. There are too many areas in the corridor that would need wetland mitigation. If you think that a I-275 extension is really a solution to spending a billion to add an HOV lane onto I-75 then I have news for you. A I-275 extension would bring a lot more sprawl as well as cost considerably more than putting a bus/carpool lane onto I-75.

[Novine]

I don't think either is a solution but always interested to hear the justifications of the expansionistas. As far as a HOV/bus lane on I-75, I don't expect that to actually happen. There's no way Lansing Republicans would let MDOT spend a billion dollars on an expansion of I-75 and deny them the right to drive in their single-occupancy vehicle in any lane of their choosing.

[Bham1982]

That I-275 expansion will never happen. Too many lakes, NIMBYs and protected areas, and would massively increase pointless sprawl in an area with few major roads or business areas.

[ghettopalmetto]

That I-275 expansion will never happen. Too many lakes, NIMBYs and protected areas, and would massively increase pointless sprawl in an area with few major roads or business areas.

But expanding I-94 to 14 lanes is okay because Poor People, Fuck 'Em.

[Detroitnerd]

But expanding I-94 to 14 lanes is okay because Poor People, Fuck 'Em.

Yup, although it would probably be phrased in terms of crime, property values, development potential, good schools, and based upon an idea of Midtown set way back in the 1980s.

[ghettopalmetto]

Yup, although it would probably be phrased in terms of crime, property values, development potential, good schools, and based upon an idea of Midtown set way back in the 1980s.

If MDOT started acting upon ideas of the 1980s, that would be an advance of at least 30 years.

[Bham1982]

But expanding I-94 to 14 lanes is okay because Poor People, Fuck 'Em.

And of course you just made this up.

[Detroitnerd]

And of course you just made this up.

He'd call poor blacks "undesirables." Very chic and uptown to do so.

[Wesley Mouch]

But expanding I-94 to 14 lanes is okay because Poor People, Fuck 'Em.

Only if you think improving roads to help economic activity is a good 'screwing'. Me, I think its more likely to help poor people than most government spending.

Of course the jobs won't go to the poor. Minimum and prevailing wage laws are in place to protect against that.

[mtm49269]

What we REALLY need re more transit options. I live n Northville - almost on the Livonia border - but i work in A2 so i dont hve a choice about driving. Ive also been workng n computers for too many years and have destroyed my upper body so my arms often spasm when im driving. so, i stay away from M14 and drive plymouth/ann arbor road to and from work. but i also leave the house @ about 5:20am to make it in by 06:00. hae to watch out fr bambis but not much traffic.

but here's some interestng info on some good programs: http://www.epa.gov/dced/about_sg.htm