Austin Points The Way: More Freeways AREN'T the Answer to Traffic

[iheartthed]

Only if you think improving roads to help economic activity is a good 'screwing'. Me, I think its more likely to help poor people than most government spending.

If road capacity/conditions were impeding Detroit's economic activity at all, why doesn't the traffic look more like LA instead of looking like Chernobyl?

[LeannaM]

Freeways [[we call them highways here) are both good and bad. They're good because people can get where they are going faster. They are bad because they divide[[d) neighborhoods and the city itself. In at least some cities, the highway caused a physical divided through neighborhoods. I believe that contributed to those neighborhoods' decline [[population loss and loss of industry contributed as well).

St. Louis is diverting the new highway through Illinois so it won't go through Downtown anymore. The current highway through Downtown is lower than street level and it's hard to walk from Downtown to the Arch. They're planning to build a lid over the highway [[which is below the road level) so we'll see how that goes. It's supposed to be done in 2015.

Highways/Freeways are a double-edged sword for cities. They make the city easier to navigate, but they don't necessarily help the city itself. As a visitor to the city, highways can be great because you get around a lot faster. But the highways have caused damage to cities.

[Wesley Mouch]

If road capacity/conditions were impeding Detroit's economic activity at all, why doesn't the traffic look more like LA instead of looking like Chernobyl?

I think our freeways look much more like LA than Chernobyl. Look at Ford between the Lodge and Chrysler during rush hour.

But this isn't and good/bad with nothing inbetween. I don't think many companies avoid Detroit today because of freeway congestion. But if we don't look at our current congestion and work to maintain throughput, imagine what the Ford will be like when Detroit's economy is singing again. You don't build roads [[or public transit) for today, you build for tomorrow. Does anyone think we won't have more traffic in Detroit's future?

[iheartthed]

I think our freeways look much more like LA than Chernobyl. Look at Ford between the Lodge and Chrysler during rush hour.

But this isn't and good/bad with nothing inbetween. I don't think many companies avoid Detroit today because of freeway congestion. But if we don't look at our current congestion and work to maintain throughput, imagine what the Ford will be like when Detroit's economy is singing again. You don't build roads [[or public transit) for today, you build for tomorrow. Does anyone think we won't have more traffic in Detroit's future?

I don't think any companies avoid Detroit because of freeway congestion. I've never visited any metro area of Detroit's size that has less freeway congestion than Detroit. Road congestion is completely a non-issue in Metro Detroit.

OTOH, I have heard plenty of remarks by non-Detroiters about Detroit's lack of transit alternatives. That is far more of a hindrance to unrealized economic opportunities than road capacity, which Detroit already has in spades.

[michiganlady]

I think the freeway system in the Detroit region is fine. The I-75 expansion between 14 Mile Road to M-59 is unnecessary. If jobs were relocated to Detroit proper [[which has the freeway and street capacity to handle traffic) instead of being extremely concentrated in the Auburn Hills-Troy-Southfield-Novi-Livonia area [[not built with the best street grid system), the traffic congestion would not be so bad today. The only mistake that was made back then was not connecting Davision Freeway from I-96 to Mound Road. It should model the Southfield Freeway [[which helps relieves traffic on the west side). Had that project been completed, I-94 in Detroit would not be so congested [[and deteriorating) today. It is very difficult to navigate the east side because there's only I-94, Gratiot, Van Dyke, Schoenherr, Mack, and Jefferson. In addition, the distance between I-94 and I-696 is too far.

And I-275 to I-75 expansion will never happen. As someone said earlier, you have wetlands, lakes, NIMBYism, and wealthy homeowners who live in that area.

[DetroitPlanner]

What we REALLY need re more transit options. I live n Northville - almost on the Livonia border - but i work in A2 so i dont hve a choice about driving. Ive also been workng n computers for too many years and have destroyed my upper body so my arms often spasm when im driving. so, i stay away from M14 and drive plymouth/ann arbor road to and from work. but i also leave the house @ about 5:20am to make it in by 06:00. hae to watch out fr bambis but not much traffic.

but here's some interestng info on some good programs: http://www.epa.gov/dced/about_sg.htm

Why not live closer to where you work? That will reduce the miles driven and congestion considerably. It would also make it more likely for you to find transit or people to carpool with. You point to Smart Growth, but how you live is not smart growth by any definition. You have put yourself into a box that forces you to drive alone.

[Bham1982]

Living in Northville and then complaining about lack of transit options? Northville will never have transit.

There are plenty of transit options regionally. You work in Ann Arbor. If waiting for a bus in below-freezing weather improves your quality of life, move to Ann Arbor.

[Wesley Mouch]

I don't think any companies avoid Detroit because of freeway congestion. I've never visited any metro area of Detroit's size that has less freeway congestion than Detroit. Road congestion is completely a non-issue in Metro Detroit.

OTOH, I have heard plenty of remarks by non-Detroiters about Detroit's lack of transit alternatives. That is far more of a hindrance to unrealized economic opportunities than road capacity, which Detroit already has in spades.

Heart -- I agree with you to a point. We need good public transit more than we need improved freeways. But we really need both.

This thread posits that roads aren't the answer to traffic. Transit is.

I disagree.

We need BOTH. And we need them BOTH to be great.

Fighting Ford upgrades doesn't deliver transit money.

To your other point... there may be no companies that consider transportation as their only issue in relocation. But I think nearly every company considers it. For manufacturing, transportation is essential. So do we ignore transportation just because we're already pretty good at it, and slowly find ourselves getting stuck in traffic jams that make Detroit feel like LA? Or do we let the Feds and State invest in Detroit to keep us strong? It would be foolish to stop keeping our top position in transportation.

[Novine]

"Living in Northville and then complaining about lack of transit options? Northville will never have transit."

Not true. Northville provides transportation services for seniors:

http://northvilleparksandrec.com/Sen...sportation.htm

Northville also spends a half million dollars a year to bus kids to and from school every day. Most suburban communities have similar arrangements but everyone pretends that these transit systems don't exist.

[313WX]

"Living in Northville and then complaining about lack of transit options? Northville will never have transit."

Not true. Northville provides transportation services for seniors:

http://northvilleparksandrec.com/Sen...sportation.htm

Northville also spends a half million dollars a year to bus kids to and from school every day. Most suburban communities have similar arrangements but everyone pretends that these transit systems don't exist.

I think a better way to put it is Northville will never have PUBLIC transit systems.

[Novine]

They are both publicly funded and operated transit systems. But in the suburbs, we only provide transit for kids going to schools and seniors. Otherwise, we pretend that transit doesn't exist in our community and refuse to provide it for anyone who doesn't fall into those two categories.