Lafayette Building's top two floors subsiding?

**Novine** · July-29-09, 07:33 PM

"That may stick in some people's craw, but I challenge anyone to point out a redevelopment in the downtown that was not assisted by the DDA in some fashion. Just one. Only one."

Do you pay attention to what anyone here is saying besides yourself [[and Kraig)? The beef people have with Geo. Jackson and the DDA/DEGC isn't that they spend public money on projects. It's how that public money is being spent. They don't want it being spent on demolition that's unneeded and adds nothing to the downtown [[and has a lot of long-term negatives). All of the other areas where DDA money is being spent doesn't change the fact that the demolitions that they have funded have largely been unneeded, unwarranted, wasteful, in some cases promoting the interests of private property owners at public expense [[Ilitch) and have done little to create actual development in downtown. You can continue to defend those wasteful ways but no one here is being distracted by your efforts to divert attention from that central fact.

**kraig** · July-29-09, 09:49 PM

Originally Posted by Novine

"That may stick in some people's craw, but I challenge anyone to point out a redevelopment in the downtown that was not assisted by the DDA in some fashion. Just one. Only one."

Do you pay attention to what anyone here is saying besides yourself [[and Kraig)? The beef people have with Geo. Jackson and the DDA/DEGC isn't that they spend public money on projects. It's how that public money is being spent. They don't want it being spent on demolition that's unneeded and adds nothing to the downtown [[and has a lot of long-term negatives). All of the other areas where DDA money is being spent doesn't change the fact that the demolitions that they have funded have largely been unneeded, unwarranted, wasteful, in some cases promoting the interests of private property owners at public expense [[Ilitch) and have done little to create actual development in downtown. You can continue to defend those wasteful ways but no one here is being distracted by your efforts to divert attention from that central fact.

Like I said, deflection.

**Novine** · July-29-09, 11:41 PM

Irrelevant. PQZ could have just as easily said "I challenge anyone to point out a redevelopment in the downtown that was not assisted by the City of Detroit/State of Michigan/Fill in the Blank in some fashion?" Whether the DEGC/DDA has a role in development downtown isn't the issue. The DDA exists because it's supposed to encourage "Downtown Development". The debate is how the DDA spends/wastes its money. When tax dollars are spent on unneeded, unnecessary demolitions that add nothing to foster downtown development, those dollars are wasted. Is that the position you want to defend? Go for it. If you want to defend subsidizing the Mike Ilitch's getting their buildings demoed on the public dollar, step up and stand behind your position. You can deflect all you want but at the end of the day, that's what the debate is about. If Geo. Jackson wants to be the demolition man of downtown, then he's going to get the criticism for the wasteful use of public tax dollars and it's criticism well-earned.

**ghettopalmetto** · July-30-09, 07:34 AM

Originally Posted by Novine

Irrelevant. PQZ could have just as easily said "I challenge anyone to point out a redevelopment in the downtown that was not assisted by the City of Detroit/State of Michigan/Fill in the Blank in some fashion?" Whether the DEGC/DDA has a role in development downtown isn't the issue. The DDA exists because it's supposed to encourage "Downtown Development". The debate is how the DDA spends/wastes its money. When tax dollars are spent on unneeded, unnecessary demolitions that add nothing to foster downtown development, those dollars are wasted. Is that the position you want to defend? Go for it. If you want to defend subsidizing the Mike Ilitch's getting their buildings demoed on the public dollar, step up and stand behind your position. You can deflect all you want but at the end of the day, that's what the debate is about. If Geo. Jackson wants to be the demolition man of downtown, then he's going to get the criticism for the wasteful use of public tax dollars and it's criticism well-earned.

And let's not forget that "oversight" consists largely of an enormous rubber stamp for the unsubstantiated whims of DEGC.

**kraig** · July-30-09, 09:59 AM

GP and Novine, you two are the perfect examples of not seeing the forest for the trees. You focus on the building that no developer of good reputation is interested in and ignore the good works that have been done by the DDA/DEGC.

You have a tremendous resource like PQZ, who knows the DDA/DEGC processes like the back of his hand, at your disposal, and instead of asking questions and engaging in discussions that could advance future projects. You decide to argue with him over a building where two floors have collapsed and a tree is growing inside of it. Talk about Tunnel Vision.

**ghettopalmetto** · July-30-09, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by kraig

GP and Novine, you two are the perfect examples of not seeing the forest for the trees. You focus on the building that no developer of good reputation is interested in and ignore the good works that have been done by the DDA/DEGC.

You have a tremendous resource like PQZ, who knows the DDA/DEGC processes like the back of his hand, at your disposal, and instead of asking questions and engaging in discussions that could advance future projects. You decide to argue with him over a building where two floors have collapsed and a tree is growing inside of it. Talk about Tunnel Vision.

If you spend all your money knocking all the fucking trees down, you don't have much of a forest, do ya?

EastSider · July-30-09, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

If you spend all your money knocking all the fucking trees down, you don't have much of a forest, do ya?

Detroit's got too much 'forest' right now. Some of the 'trees' are going to have to come down if we want to reverse the course of the city.

It would have been nice if someone had stepped up and converted the Lafayette right when the courts were done with it, but they didn't. Maybe there's a lesson there for the preservationistas in our fair burgh.

Simply put, there's no market in Detroit for whatever you can turn the Lafayette into. Office space? Not when the rest of the "vintage" buildings are teetering. Residential? The Book-Cadillac can't sell their high-rise condos. Ground-floor retail? We've got enough vacant space like that already.

Putting more of this space on the market will only serve to lower the rents in the existing buildings, pushing all of those buildings one step closer to being yesterday's news.

**kraig** · July-30-09, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

If you spend all your money knocking all the fucking trees down, you don't have much of a forest, do ya?

Such language. I see that the ghettopalmetto meltdown is happening in the a.m. these days. I'll go along with your analogy since I did use forest and trees in my post. No one is looking at knocking down all of the trees. But, from time to time, you are going to have to knock down the diseased and dying trees.

If someone is looking to rehab the Lafayette Building and has the resources to do it, fine. If not, it's also a waste of money to keep the building standing. Let's go back to the knowns and unknowns. 1.4 million for demolition is a known to the DDA/DEGC and is acceptable to them. The cost of maintaining the building and for how long are unknowns. But, it is known that it would cost more than 1.4 million.