The End of Detroit... [Plan to widen I-94, I-75]

[Detroitnerd]

This definitely does not sound like an "objective observation" to me.

Can you cite one of these opponents in this thread, who apparently are not against freeway expansions per se, but only for I-75 and I-94? So they will support widenings of I-275 and I-696?

I have not read one such comment on this thread.

Yeah, well, I believe I supported bridge replacements and roadway replacement. I just don't support the expansion.

Sorry if that gets in the way of your tar brush and feather sack.

[Bham1982]

Yeah, well, I believe I supported bridge replacements and roadway replacement. I just don't support the expansion.

Sorry if that gets in the way of your tar brush and feather sack.

Ok, but that's exactly what I wrote. No one is pro-collapsing bridge.

My point is that all the anti-expansion folks on this thread appear to be against any and all capacity improvements.

[rb336]

The theory, as promoted by DYes, appears to be "all road capacity improvements are useless as they do nothing for congestion". So a dirt road has the same utility as a 40-lane highway.

And, of course, the corollary of "increased highway usage post-improvements is a sign of the lack of need for such improvements, but in the case of transit, no such rules apply".

Ladies and gentlemen: We have here two perfect examples of the straw man/ Aunt Sallie fallacy in one post!

Bham has misrepresented the arguments counter to his POV as something much simpler to argue against.

He has also used the appeal to authority. Vuchic, et al, in"Land Consumption Impacts of a Transportation System in a City [[in Transportation Research Record v 2011, 1999) certainly seems against committing major amounts of infrastructure to auto-based transport, and the arguments made therein closely echo most of the anti-I-94-expansion comments here.

Three fallacies, one post

[Gistok]

For those who need justification for spending over $1 billion on freeways...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3331912.html

[That Great Guy]

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/18...whats-at-stake

The exact same money which used to pay for the SMART buses is being used to pay for these massive freeway expansions.

The tax renewal of August 2014 is also a tax shift and increase.

This tax proposal replaces pre 1995 operating expenses from the Michigan Department of Transportation, MDOT which is proof of being a tax shift.

The service reductions are proof of being a tax increase by the fact we will pay more for less. If you pay 3 dollars a gallon for gas, then you pay 3 dollars for half a gallon, now you pay twice. The same with the SMART tax, you vote YES, then you support the shift to freeways and increase for fewer buses. It is your choice.

[Wesley Mouch]

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/18...whats-at-stake

The exact same money which used to pay for the SMART buses is being used to pay for these massive freeway expansions.

The tax renewal of August 2014 is also a tax shift and increase.

This tax proposal replaces pre 1995 operating expenses from the Michigan Department of Transportation, MDOT which is proof of being a tax shift.

The service reductions are proof of being a tax increase by the fact we will pay more for less. If you pay 3 dollars a gallon for gas, then you pay 3 dollars for half a gallon, now you pay twice. The same with the SMART tax, you vote YES, then you support the shift to freeways and increase for fewer buses. It is your choice.

The exact same money, eh?

I suppose by this logic, signing the Declaration of Independence resulting in freeway expansion, too?

Does any expenditure you don't agree with come from bus money? Those financial execs at the State that Engler, I mean Snyder gave pay raises -- that money could have gone to freeway expansion too? Maybe Snyder actually prevented freeway expansion in Detroit by paying them the same money instead.

[mtburb]

The same with the SMART tax, you vote YES, then you support the shift to freeways and increase for fewer buses. It is your choice.

So does this automatically assume that if you vote "no", then not only will you still support the shift to freeways, but every community in Wayne, Oakland and Macomb Counties automatically becomes an opt-out community for good?

[That Great Guy]

The exact same money, eh?

I suppose by this logic, signing the Declaration of Independence resulting in freeway expansion, too?

Does any expenditure you don't agree with come from bus money? Those financial execs at the State that Engler, I mean Snyder gave pay raises -- that money could have gone to freeway expansion too? Maybe Snyder actually prevented freeway expansion in Detroit by paying them the same money instead.

MDOT claims the expansions are an existing need but they are not. That is why you and many others believe State fuel taxes are no longer a viable option to pay for operating expenses for SMART and DDOT and to coordinate city and suburban bus systems using the RTA agreement.

It is illegal to shift money from SMART or equivalent without a majority vote first for permanent alternative funding Thus, a vote of NO only caps the tax and MDOT must pay the same as before 1995. There will be no SMART job losses or anyone losing their essential bus service no matter how you cast your vote. In addition, should the August 2014 renewal fail, you will pay the same tax.

[That Great Guy]

So does this automatically assume that if you vote "no", then not only will you still support the shift to freeways, but every community in Wayne, Oakland and Macomb Counties automatically becomes an opt-out community for good?

Voting NO means you do not support freeway expansions and you will not Opt Out without a vote for alternative funding as defined by Federal laws, which will prevail if properly challenged. And presently that is being done.

Federal and State funding is not being cut without a fight.