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  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by aj3647 View Post
    So with absolutely no evidence or knowledge of the perp's motives, you just assume that there is some kind of implied racial bias, or at least anti-art? OK then.
    If it walks like a duck, if it talks like a duck, then it must be..........?

  2. #27

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    At this point I wouldn't be opposed to erecting a cheap, nonfunctional fireproof replacement artistic house just to frustrate the perp and draw him out into exposure. A "bait" house, yes.

    He might find a way around it but he'd have to think instead of just lighting a match.
    Last edited by Jimaz; March-07-14 at 09:33 PM.

  3. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lowell View Post
    Probably not. But this isn't just any abandoned little house in the urban prairie of Detroit. It is in a high profile situation where allegedly extra vigilance is in place. So we have to award points for stealth in this case.
    I'm not really arguing with you..but "extra vigilance" is what? a rent a cop making a few passes before they ran out of money to pay for it? which is an odd claim for them to make as they raised over 50k specifically for security a month? two months? ago. Per the Heidleberg's website, they did manage to put the camera INSIDE the house but, shockingly, the camera and the recording was destroyed.

    I don't think it takes some master firebug to accomplish this. I'm still betting it's someone in the neighborhood [[whats left of it) that is tired of all the "outsiders" gawking at the "art environment". Or it's someone involved in the project that was slighted in some fashion....perhaps they weren't invited to Switzerland?

    End of the day it's still Detroit where the Chief of Police makes statements to the press encouraging the residential populace to go ahead and shoot at that perp if they feel threatened as the police won't be there anytime soon.

    So, here's how you solve this. Sit in one of the remaining houses every night with a weapon and just shoot the next person to even slow down out front of it at night. Clearly the Chief isn't going to prosecute [[how could you NOT be in fear of your life or GBH? 5 other places were burned down...) and you've sent the message that it's no longer a soft target.
    Last edited by bailey; March-10-14 at 08:41 AM.

  4. #29

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    I find it truly odd that this art installation keeps going up in flames and no one sees anything. This is what, the 5th or 6th fire now? Wasn't there an enormous amount of money raised to secure the couple of abandoned eyesores that are left? How much does securing two houses actually cost since the last fire? I get the feeling it's an inside job or it's someone from the neighborhood. Regardless of who did it, it's a sorry way to get rid of something that you don't like. Sad to his his hard work go out like this but shit was ugly anyway.

  5. #30

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    Muckraker is on it and it doesn't look good...

    http://motorcitymuckraker.com/blog/2...t-you-to-know/

    As the world-famous Heidelberg Project came under siege by an arsonist last year, the nonprofit organization that runs the outdoor art exhibit on Detroit’s east side was spending a vast majority of its shrinking budget on nine employees and a spacious office in Brush Park near downtown.

    Very little of its annual $200,000 budget was dedicated to the art project and its diminishing properties, an analysis of the nonprofit’s tax records shows. Of the 50 parcels in the two-block area, just four belong to the Heidelberg Project after losing homes to foreclosures.
    .
    Now authorities say the project’s artist, Tyree Guyton, and his wife, Executive Director Jenenne Whitfield, aren’t cooperating with arson investigators from the ATF and Detroit Fire Department after six of the eight art-studded houses were destroyed by arson since November.


    “They are saying a lot to the public, but they haven’t been very cooperative,” according to a high-level fire official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation is ongoing. “We need to talk with them.”

    “Of course that is not true,” she wrote in an e-mail. “Why we would we do that?”


    Whitfield, whose annual pay as executive director jumped from $1,000 in 2009 to $61,000 in 2012, declined to answer follow-up questions.

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    His wife is the "executive director", they have 9 employees, no security plan, 14k raised in an "emergency security plan fund raiser", all shows very poor management.

    But the fact they aren't cooperating with law enforcement reveals something more sinister. I don't know if they are personally setting the fires, but they [[at a bare minimum) know something.

  7. #32

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    There's a wide margin between "poorly managed nonprofit," "nonprofit used for nepotistic enrichment," and "felony."

    Arson is a felony. Mismangement of a small art-centered nonprofit is remarkably common, and, as far as I know, not a crime. Hiring your friends and lovers is also remarkably common, and, depending on how it is done, entirely legal too.

    Indicative of the nonprofit’s questionable financial decisions, the Heidelberg spent $12,938 on a fundraiser that collected $13,550 – a return of $612.
    Every nonprofit or arts organization I've ever been close enough to know the numbers on has done an event like this. Often several. In fact, a 4.7% return is better than many.

  8. #33
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    Mar 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by gvidas View Post
    Every nonprofit or arts organization I've ever been close enough to know the numbers on has done an event like this. Often several. In fact, a 4.7% return is better than many.
    I am not affiliated with a nonprofit, but if what you say is true, why do nonprofits even bother with fundraisers? A 4% rate of return is awful, considering all the time and effort and salaries invested.

    With that rate of return, it would be much more profitable to take a tin cup to Campus Martius.

  9. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by gvidas View Post
    There's a wide margin between "poorly managed nonprofit," "nonprofit used for nepotistic enrichment," and "felony."

    Arson is a felony. Mismangement of a small art-centered nonprofit is remarkably common, and, as far as I know, not a crime. Hiring your friends and lovers is also remarkably common, and, depending on how it is done, entirely legal too.



    Every nonprofit or arts organization I've ever been close enough to know the numbers on has done an event like this. Often several. In fact, a 4.7% return is better than many.
    not to be too on the nose...but sometimes where there is smoke there is fire.

    You are 130k in the hole and that hole is only getting deeper... some massive outpouring of community goodwill over a "tragic" series of events might be just the thing to turn it all around.

  10. #35

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    As someone who worked in the non-profit arena for more than 20 years, I will attest that events often don't make a decent surplus over expenses. There are several reasons. Some events are held to attract new donors. Acquiring new donors is always costly. Once you get them in the fold, however, the cost to retain them is relatively low. Also, events are unpredictable. Most are planned months in advance. Corporate support is often crucial. If the efforts to attract corporate sponsors is less than expected, then you need to make it up somewhere, probably by extra ticket sales. And if those fall flat, you pray that you at least break even. First year events are also difficult. It can take two or more years before momentum builds and your donors plan their calendars around it. That said, if you have attracted new donors and developed stronger relationships with existing donors, breaking even on an event might still be good for the organization in the long run.

    Most organizations employ several methods of fundraising in the overall strategy. Having diversity in your methods helps even out the bangs and busts. No matter how well-run the organization, donors disappear through attrition. If you don't have a strategy for attracting new donors, you will pay for it eventually.
    Last edited by downtownguy; March-19-14 at 12:59 PM.

  11. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by bailey View Post
    Muckraker is on it and it doesn't look good...

    http://motorcitymuckraker.com/blog/2...t-you-to-know/
    Not much smoke and certainly no fire. Any time I read 'authorities say' and "spoke on condition of anonymity" my bs detector starts dinging that someone is trying to spin a story out of nothing. There may be one but I don't see anything yet. But AFT investigation is a big factor.

    I'm not really arguing with you..but "extra vigilance" is what? a rent a cop making a few passes before they ran out of money to pay for it?
    The significant factor would be the extra forensic skills brought in by the AFT and their investigators and quite likely covert observation tools.

    But the money and fame that Tyree has gained from the project argues heavily against this being an inside job and his being involved - even if as a former firefighter he would be well equipped for the job. I just can't see one killing the goose who is laying the golden eggs. And I don't think sympathy fundraisers are motivation enough. One can only go to the well a couple of times. The real money is with the foundations and that is was by having the site as it was.

  12. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lowell View Post
    Not much smoke and certainly no fire. Any time I read 'authorities say' and "spoke on condition of anonymity" my bs detector starts dinging that someone is trying to spin a story out of nothing.
    Fair enough... but when the person who, in three years went from making 1,000 to 60k in a time of declining revenue at a nonprofit is the one refusing to answer questions about the goings on at the nonprofit, MY bs detector starts pinging. If you don't want to answer questions about your salary and the financial workings the entity you run...don't work for a non profit where it's all public record and your sole revenue stream is donated money.

    There may be one but I don't see anything yet. But AFT investigation is a big factor.

    The significant factor would be the extra forensic skills brought in by the AFT and their investigators and quite likely covert observation tools.
    Sure... but that is the AFT investigation they are allegedly not cooperating with.

    But the money and fame that Tyree has gained from the project argues heavily against this being an inside job and his being involved - even if as a former firefighter he would be well equipped for the job. I just can't see one killing the goose who is laying the golden eggs. And I don't think sympathy fundraisers are motivation enough. One can only go to the well a couple of times. The real money is with the foundations and that is was by having the site as it was.

    You're only worried about killing the golden goose when it's laying eggs. It would appear from their financial filings, those eggs weren't being laid anymore.


    It seems to me, the hypotheses are: firebug [[or someone with an axe to grind) that has set his sights on Heidelberg and has not been caught even though there is a 30k cash reward, white hot media attention, stepped up [[relatively) security, and a motivated FD and PD to make a high profile arrest. -or- Someone with something to gain from all that attention.


    I go with the Occam's razor, if there are multiple possible explanations, the simplest is almost always correct. like any business that has a mysterious fire at the end of a run of bad years, more often than not one doesn't have to look very far to find the responsible party... its not often the firebug.
    Last edited by bailey; March-19-14 at 02:30 PM.

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