United Artists Theatre

**1KielsonDrive** · October-11-09, 12:55 PM

It was Joe and Debby Grella. Joe was diagnosed MS either during, or shortly before, their stay in Detroit. The Kurante's, Milda and Ron, were their leasing agents. I was in and out of the UA many, many times during that era. During Grossman's ownership of the UA [[did he know or care w/t/f he was doing?) he'd brought a young man to town from North Carolina, who was a carpenter, craftsman, by the name of John Ballantine. John's only [[this isn't meant as a knock) claim to fame, according to himself, was that he'd built an astounding barroom someplace that Grossman happened to stumble into. Grossman then invited him here to Detroit, to not only secure and surpervise the UA, but also to participate in it's rehabilitation. John was living in the Leland and preparing the UA for it's rehab. He wasn't around more than 6 -8 months. He wasn't receiving his agree upon salary, though he continued work in the theatre. One day he said, 'I'm outta here, bounced paychecks and all'. Never saw him again. Nice kid. I don't remember any extensive evidence of his carpenter, craftsmanship talents, they never seemed to get that far. But I did see his work in cleaning up the lobby, building and theatre.

**1KielsonDrive** · October-11-09, 12:57 PM

I also remember going in the UA with John and water was pouring in from a rainfall. The lower levels were flooded and roiling like a stream.

**1KielsonDrive** · October-11-09, 01:05 PM

Which reminds me of a few times I was in the Tele-Arts with RFP [[rest his Detroit loving heart in PEACE). It was after it's incarnation as a theatre, while it was sitting fallow, prior to it's refurbishing as a nightclub. The building was in excellent condition, including the basement, which was bone dry. Even the broadcast booth area. But the first floor was flooded and water was roiling in from the alley, much like I saw at the UA. The floor between the main level and basement must have been extremely well constructed and waterproofed to have maintained it's integrity in that situation. I don't know how well it fared up until it was refurbished for the nightclub.

**GRALR** · October-13-09, 11:19 AM

YEAH I was so excited to read this, really really excited! I don't get excited much but this is such great news and I don't even live in Detroit.

Thanks for the pics please post more!

**1KielsonDrive** · October-13-09, 12:24 PM

Don't count your chickens until they're hatched. Or, as The Curmudgeon would say, "Don't believe it until you've seen it and its been there for a few years".

**esp1986** · October-13-09, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by 1KielsonDrive

Don't count your chickens until they're hatched. Or, as The Curmudgeon would say, "Don't believe it until you've seen it and its been there for a few years".

Well, with multiple sources saying that the office tower is being renovated with a governmental tenant in mind, there is little reason to believe that what is going on down there on a daily basis is not part of a renovation.

**1KielsonDrive** · October-14-09, 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by esp1986

Well, with multiple sources saying that the office tower is being renovated with a governmental tenant in mind, there is little reason to believe that what is going on down there on a daily basis is not part of a renovation.

I'll stick with Skipper's Rule #1. Don't believe it until you've seen it and its been there for a few years. This a rule devised, in particular, for Detroit. There was extended work on the Statler for months, if not years. What happened to the Statler? I saw a couple of big time presentations for renovations to the Tuller. It was to become the Golden Harp Castle. What happened? It's gone. We could belabor this one. How do we know, other than rumours, there's a governmental tenant? How do we know, other than rumours, this is a renovation and not a stabilization? What did J.C.Beal say about it ? Considering it's Illitch's building, I wouldn't count on any type of renovations. He's not trustworthy. And he's certainly not a preservationist. I'm happy it's being stabilized. I'll be happier when it actually get's rebuilt, if it ever happens. Just so you don't get your heart broken - don't count on it.

**mcsdetroitfriend** · October-14-09, 12:55 AM

Originally Posted by 1KielsonDrive

I'll stick with Skipper's Rule #1. Don't believe it until you've seen it and its been there for a few years. This a rule devised, in particular, for Detroit. There was extended work on the Statler for months, if not years. What happened to the Statler? I saw a couple of big time presentations for renovations to the Tuller. It was to become the Golden Harp Castle. What happened? It's gone. We could belabor this one. How do we know, other than rumours, there's a governmental tenant? How do we know, other than rumours, this is a renovation and not a stabilization? What did J.C.Beal say about it ? Considering it's Illitch's building, I wouldn't count on any type of renovations. He's not trustworthy. And he's certainly not a preservationist. I'm happy it's being stabilized. I'll be happier when it actually get's rebuilt, if it ever happens. Just so you don't get your heart broken - don't count on it.

I only hold out hope now only because of that email I got and the footer reading "renovation" etc etc

**1KielsonDrive** · October-14-09, 12:05 AM

The Grellas were from New York City.

**Gistok** · October-14-09, 01:06 AM

1kielsondrive, besides decorative awnings... I'm unaware of any work that was done on the Statler from when it closed in 1975 until it was "prepared for demolition" a few years ago.

As for the Tuller... the demise of the Tuller mirrors in many ways the loss of the all but the facade of the Fine Arts Building. The older north section of the Tuller unfortunately also had internal beam supports that started sagging/collapsing before any redevelopment ideas could be implemented. These beams may have been wooden [[like the Fine Arts).

As for Ilitch... besides the Fox restoration and saving the Masonic from certain closure... I agree that they haven't done much from a preservation standpoint. And the many demolitions that they have done certainly doesn't help their cause any.

But I think that the jury is still out on their eventual legacy [[mixed at best)... depending on what they do with the United Artists complex, the Iodent Building, the Moose Lodge and the Fine Arts facade. I am of the opinion that much of this is delayed until they've acquired all the land needed for their prefered arena location [[they're not there yet)... not to mention the economy.

It will be interesting to see if a United Artists stabalization [[versus restoration/renovation) includes... besides the new roof... refacing the southwest wall [[along Clifford) missing much of its' brickwork.

**gumby** · October-14-09, 05:43 AM

Gistok,

I think you mean Detroit Life Building not Iodent. the Iodent from what I understand is owned by Sean Harrington, a guy who actually does stuff with his buildings.

**56packman** · October-14-09, 08:16 AM

The UA Wurlitzer was a model 260 special, The "special" part being that it had optional brass trumpet and brass saxophone ranks and the "economy" 6 note 32' diaphone pipes with the flapper door to tune them. 6 pipes did the work of 12, there was a flapper door at the top of each pipe that opened pneumatically when the shorter note was played, C became C# etc.
I helped move those pipes from a strorage facility in Troy in 1977, they are now on the built-up instrument in the Berkley Community auditorium in California.
I saw the UA Wurlitzer in place in 1975, before it was removed. Except for the two brass ranks that were stolen it was in pristine untouched condition. It was restored at a shop in Troy by a friend of mine and was installed in the "Pied Piper Pizza Peddler" at the Universal Mall, Warren, in the early 70s. After that restaurant tanked it was acquired by the Long Center in Layafette.
I have recordings of Edward Kassow playing the UA in 1952 and Ed Gress playing it in 1954, it got out well, and sounded good.
The organ in Ford Auditorium is not a theatre organ, it is a classical/concert organ that happens to be located in a theater. It is going to be a hardship case wherever it goes next, given the trouble they had at Ford auditorium and what they had to do to make it be heard in that mid-century acoustical deathtrap. We'll see what happens after WCF leaves this mortal coil.

**Gistok** · October-14-09, 11:26 AM

Thanks Gumby.... got my buildings mixed up... the Detroit Life Building [[with its' stalled renovations) is correct.

Thanks also 56packman. I remember you mentioning in another thread that the Aeolean Skinner organ at Ford Auditorium had to be modified due to the poor acoustics of the auditorium. It would probably sound deafening in an acoustically superior location such as the UA. Also, I imagine that there would have to be quite a bit of replacement work of parts that haven't been maintained after many years of non-use.

So you think that as long as WCF [[William Clay Ford Sr.) is still around... Ford Auditorium will still be around...

**Whitehouse** · October-17-09, 08:47 PM

Here's a debris chute, or whatever you might call it.

**Gistok** · October-19-09, 12:10 AM

Welcome to the forum Whitehouse!!!

It's nice to have someone from the Netherlands... a country with a history going back to the Romans... be interested in some of the faded and restored glory of early 20th century American architecture here in Detroit!

Thanks for all the links! I was looking for some nice pictures of the Fisher Theatre organ console. And to think that those vivid colors of the console matched the interior color of the old Fisher Theatre!!

The pictures of the interior of the Detroit United Artists Theatre that still show the curtains near the stage are all old images. Earlier in this thread Kimberlaina found a newer picture taken in the last year or so, which shows the curtains gone, and the roof patched, and interior with some cleanup work done.

I've been EMAIL corresponding with one of the photographers who is doing the National Geographic photos... and he sent along one pic. All I can say is WOW!!! I've never seen such vivid colors in any movie palace image...

I'll see if I can get permission to post it. I showed it to a friend who has no interest in old movie palaces, nor old buildings... and he too said "WOW"!

**mcsdetroitfriend** · October-19-09, 12:16 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

I've been EMAIL corresponding with one of the photographers who is doing the National Geographic photos... and he sent along one pic. All I can say is WOW!!! I've never seen such vivid colors in any movie palace image...

I'll see if I can get permission to post it. I showed it to a friend who has no interest in old movie palaces, nor old buildings... and he too said "WOW"!

Please do!!!

**Gistok** · October-19-09, 04:00 PM

Now there is a German film crew in Detroit.... they want to do a documentary, and include the cities downtown movie palaces. Lowell may already be in contact with these people.

I hope that like the National Geographic story... the struggling city of Detroit gets painted in a good light...

**Kimberlaina** · October-19-09, 08:14 PM

Another treasure . . .

http://www.flickr.com/photos/33873484@N05/3645547034/

Is it just me, or are there more changes in this one, i.e. removal of the plaster on the left wall? Is that a good sign? Or am I just imagining it?

Stosh · October-19-09, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by Kimberlaina

Another treasure . . .

http://www.flickr.com/photos/33873484@N05/3645547034/

Is it just me, or are there more changes in this one, i.e. removal of the plaster on the left wall? Is that a good sign? Or am I just imagining it?

I was going to say they were demo, but this is from under the balcony.

**Kimberlaina** · October-19-09, 08:34 PM

The left wall was pretty damaged by rain, so it might be removing rotted plaster. I'm holding out hope

In a certain sort of way, the place is looking nice . . .

That link I posted offers an option to blow the photo up to a pretty large size. You can see some of the details of the plasterwork there -- it's very impressive in such detail. It looks much less ghostly.

Stosh · October-19-09, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by Kimberlaina

The left wall was pretty damaged by rain, so it might be removing rotted plaster. I'm holding out hope

In a certain sort of way, the place is looking nice . . .

That link I posted offers an option to blow the photo up to a pretty large size. You can see some of the details of the plasterwork there -- it's very impressive in such detail. It looks much less ghostly.

Less ghostly, but it shows the scope of work that they will need to do if they are to bring it back to life in one form or another. The brick wall was probably a mirror of the wall nearest to the photographer. Perhaps if that wasn't damaged too bad they can take rubber molds of the existing ornamental plaster in place, and carefully pull the mold off, making a template for duplication. The ceiling of the balcony looks like a total loss. They'd have to come up with a plan to replicate something up there.

**Gistok** · October-20-09, 10:04 PM

Although I got that image from the WaterWinterWonderland site, it is indeed listed in the Arcadia Movie Palace book as a Manning Brothers image.

Stosh · October-21-09, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Although I got that image from the WaterWinterWonderland site, it is indeed listed in the Arcadia Movie Palace book as a Manning Brothers image.

Thought so. There's just so much there in that photo collection. What they let people see is just the tip of the iceberg, Maybe someday, a decent catalog system that will allow folks to actually see what's there. The books that could be written from that collection would stagger the imagination,

**56packman** · October-21-09, 11:36 PM

All of the vintage images of the UA are from Manning Bros. I have some of them as 8x10 glossies. I knew Bud Manning, used to stop by the Highland Park location in the 70s and buy 8 x 10s for $5 each, no hasle over rights for my own use/collection. I wish now that I bought more of those pics.

**mcsdetroitfriend** · October-22-09, 02:06 AM

I wish you did too! 8x10's from the Manning Archive are $100+ and good luck getting an appointment to sit down and pay $10 to look at them, I've yet to get my calls or emails returned lately, just phone tag