United Artists Theatre

[Gistok]

Regarding the UA theater renovation, what possible successful business model exists for spending at least $25 million plus whatever endowment would be needed for an operating budget? Only an unprecedented gift from a wealthy benefactor could ever make the numbers work. It could never work as a for-profit venture. Folks shouldn't lose sight of the fact that the theater's value or merit derives solely from it's interior [[80% lost at this point) and it's potential programming. It has no exterior architectural distinction.

Getting the lights back on in the UA building is much more important to the continuing revitalization of downtown Detroit. An infill project for the rest of the UA block [[a huge surface parking lot blighting Grand Circus Park) is more important to the continuing revitalization of downtown Detroit. It would be very bad if saving the theater blocked either of these things from happening. Of course it's "possible" to renovate the theater. But it's not feasible. The theater footprint can assist in making other projects on the block feasible though.

I don't think that anyone is suggesting that an immediate plan for the UA theatre has to be done. The facade of the building where the vestibule and lobby of the theatre is was going to be sealed up anyway... for future development. If the auditorium portion of the building is razed, it will just be another addition to the sea of parking beyond that. Is more parking really preferable to a sealed building that is mainly out of sight?

You are correct in that it will require someone with deep pockets to develop the theatre space [[plus there's always the revenue from naming rights). Right now there is no current need. But who knows if in a few years that might change. The theatre footprint would not be a hindrance to the redevelopment of the rest of the block as can be seen here...

https://www.google.com/maps/place/15...!4d-83.0530437

Unlike the Fox Theatre, which has every nook and cranny filled with ornate plaster, the UA has large portions filled with flat wall surfaces that were painted to look like medieval ashlar blocks of stone. Most of the ornate plasterwork survives, and although large portions of that have some damage, once a plaster mold is taken [[or gotten from its' near twin in LA), reuse of the plaster mold for repetitive surfaces is not as costly as one would think. And as for the resources for future restoration of the interior, there are several restoration companies nationwide [[such as Conrad Schmitt Studios) that specialize in this type of work.

If they powerwashed the auditorium exterior [[it already has a new roof), then it could be mothballed [[like so much of District Detroits surviving buildings are already). It doesn't look unsightly because both the Michigan Bldg. and the UA Building tower block most of the theatre portion anyway. And cleaned up, the exterior would look just like it did for over 50 years as a working theatre.

Once this space is gone... then there will never be another chance to "grow" the entertainment district. Once it turns into a parking lot... it will be that way for a very long time...

[Atticus]

I don't think that anyone is suggesting that an immediate plan for the UA theatre has to be done. The facade of the building where the vestibule and lobby of the theatre is was going to be sealed up anyway... for future development. If the auditorium portion of the building is razed, it will just be another addition to the sea of parking beyond that. Is more parking really preferable to a sealed building that is mainly out of sight?

You are correct in that it will require someone with deep pockets to develop the theatre space [[plus there's always the revenue from naming rights). Right now there is no current need. But who knows if in a few years that might change. The theatre footprint would not be a hindrance to the redevelopment of the rest of the block as can be seen here...

https://www.google.com/maps/place/15...!4d-83.0530437

Unlike the Fox Theatre, which has every nook and cranny filled with ornate plaster, the UA has large portions filled with flat wall surfaces that were painted to look like medieval ashlar blocks of stone. Most of the ornate plasterwork survives, and although large portions of that have some damage, once a plaster mold is taken [[or gotten from its' near twin in LA), reuse of the plaster mold for repetitive surfaces is not as costly as one would think. And as for the resources for future restoration of the interior, there are several restoration companies nationwide [[such as Conrad Schmitt Studios) that specialize in this type of work.

If they powerwashed the auditorium exterior [[it already has a new roof), then it could be mothballed [[like so much of District Detroits surviving buildings are already). It doesn't look unsightly because both the Michigan Bldg. and the UA Building tower block most of the theatre portion anyway. And cleaned up, the exterior would look just like it did for over 50 years as a working theatre.

Once this space is gone... then there will never be another chance to "grow" the entertainment district. Once it turns into a parking lot... it will be that way for a very long time...

Further, moth balling the existing theatre does not preclude the redevelopment of the UA building itself. The concept that the theatre must be torn down is nothing but an Illitch myth.

There may be a day where the conversation must be had whether to tear down the theatre because a business case doesn’t exist for its redevelopment. But if that conversation is to be had, there needs to be a serious and beneficial project that will be taking its place... not more parking. For the time being, a mothballed theatre is better use of the land than more parking. That should be without question. And until such time that a better use of the land can be contractually guaranteed, there should be no conversation about tearing down a historic theatre.

[Gistok]

Further, moth balling the existing theatre does not preclude the redevelopment of the UA building itself. The concept that the theatre must be torn down is nothing but an Illitch myth.

There may be a day where the conversation must be had whether to tear down the theatre because a business case doesn’t exist for its redevelopment. But if that conversation is to be had, there needs to be a serious and beneficial project that will be taking its place... not more parking. For the time being, a mothballed theatre is better use of the land than more parking. That should be without question. And until such time that a better use of the land can be contractually guaranteed, there should be no conversation about tearing down a historic theatre.

Amen... and the theatre auditorium already has a new roof, that the Ilitches belatedly added about 7 years ago. Had they done so 22 years ago when they first bought the building, then we wouldn't even be having this discussion about should it be torn down due to its' current state.

Just another example of the Ilitches "demolition by neglect"... for more parking...

[JK313]

Considering part of the plan for the theater site is a “memorial pocket park”, I highly doubt they plan on developing the parking lot any time in the near future

[DetroitSoldier]

Considering part of the plan for the theater site is a “memorial pocket park”, I highly doubt they plan on developing the parking lot any time in the near future

Nothing says "quality urban design" like a pocket park located in a parking lot surrounded by 150 cars.

[Detroitdave]

The Ilitch family has a long history and shown and proven on several occasion how they feel and what their intent is for this building and several in this area. Just look across grand circus park at the Adams/fine arts facade, the Madison building and several others.
If I'm not mistaken , they promised to build behind the facade decades ago. And we all can go on and on about their poor tack record regarding their "promises".
They should not be granted the right to demo the auditorium. take a walk behind the Fox , that'll give you a good idea what they intend to do.

[Detroitdave]

I believe the Ilitches also said they wanted to add a hotel to the district Detroit. Why not do what they've done in LA with their UA theater and convert the tower portions into hotel rooms and repair the theater for shows like they are doing in the FOX , WIN, WIN ?
https://www.acehotel.com/losangeles/...tre-ace-hotel/

[JK313]

A more recent report I found about the condition of the theater wing of the United Artists Building.

https://detroitmi.gov/sites/detroitm...20Material.pdf

[angry_fred]

A more recent report I found about the condition of the theater wing of the United Artists Building.

https://detroitmi.gov/sites/detroitm...20Material.pdf

---

Kinda looks like [[from the report) that Ilitch could have saved it, and now it's beyond repair. Deja Vu...

[Gistok]

On Crain's Detroit... there is a nice commentary by former Preservation Detroit Executive Director Francis Grunow, on why the Detroit United Artists Theatre should be saved. If you cannot get past the Crain's firewall to read it, it is also posted on The Terrible Ilitches Facebook page.... 3rd article down...

https://www.facebook.com/TERRIBLEILI...3i4t5tnqegxrU2

[Metro25]

Good read. But if its truly gutted I'm not sure what else could be done.

[Gistok]

If there is structural failure, then yes... not much can be done. But if it is missing plasterwork... then that can be recast with molds made up of surviving work... since these theatres had repetitive motifs [[molds).

Take the Detroit Opera House.... before and after....

[Vitalis]

Happy New Year! Cocktail parties can be revealing. Especially if the people one is conversing with are directly involved with projects that are near and dear to this forums collective heart. What follows is not yet gospel, but rather, negatively compelling. This is what it looks like for the UA building in the coming year or two. Street level retail along Bagley, including the theater entrance or outer lobby, and tying in the rotunda lobby, as well, to create an enclosed shopping corridor. After that, destruction of the auditorium; asphalt covering over hundreds of thousands of laughs, cheers, applause, Joseph N. Welch's remarks about women's panties, thundering horse hooves pulling chariots, Nazi's being judged, ghosts. All gone. Google your past, Detroit.

I firmly believe that no one involved with the future of this particular block in downtown Detroit, gives a rat's ass about saving the theater - no one. Not the money people, the architects, or the construction firm. Finis.

[Gistok]

I firmly believe that no one involved with the future of this particular block in downtown Detroit, gives a rat's ass about saving the theater - no one. Not the money people, the architects, or the construction firm. Finis.

What you believe has all already been stated in the online and print media... as well as the fact that the proposed developer is lying that the only way to get an insured loan is for the theatre to be demolished. HUD already said that they don't care if the theatre stays [[even mothballed).

[Metro25]

Ilitches and their goons not caring about Detroit in the slightest is common knowledge.

[JK313]

So was the fate of the theater portion ever officially decided? It appears that scaffolding is being installed on the building, so I’m assuming the renovation is about to get underway.

[CassTechGrad]

I remember going there to see the film "Mondo Cane" in 1963 I think. It was rated X and condemned by the church. I had to go to confession after that.

[Vitalis]

Sorry CassTechGrad, memories can be a tricky thing.

"Mondo Cane" began an exclusive Detroit engagement at the Studio North theater, in Ferndale, on Wednesday, February 5, 1964 - running through May 12 of that year. Later in the summer the film reappeared as the top half of a double bill at the Fox. Now, where did I put my car keys?

The roadshow engagement of "Cleopatra" was in the middle of its 60-week contracted run at the United Artists, at that time.

[CassTechGrad]

Sorry CassTechGrad, memories can be a tricky thing.

"Mondo Cane" began an exclusive Detroit engagement at the Studio North theater, in Ferndale, on Wednesday, February 5, 1964 - running through May 12 of that year. Later in the summer the film reappeared as the top half of a double bill at the Fox. Now, where did I put my car keys?

The roadshow engagement of "Cleopatra" was in the middle of its 60-week contracted run at the United Artists, at that time.

I can see that your very knowledgeable on what was showing back then so I believe you but I have this clear picture in my mind of the marque with “Mondo Cane” on it??? Could UA have shown Mondo Cane “2”.

[Gistok]

One of the last big highlights at the Detroit United Artists Theatre was the world premier of the 1959 movie Otto Preminger's 'Anatomy of a Murder', filmed in upper Michigan. In this historic film clip we see the long gone Tuller and Statler Hotels, as well as the David Whitney Building in scaffolding... with the removal of the historic elements... recently re-added. Scenes also from the interior of the United Artists Theatre....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_gt_pz9sNY

[Detroitdave]

That was cool to see thanks !

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

Interesting but sad to watch. So much has been lost. Well, at least that cornice is back.

[Vitalis]

CassTechGrad, that last UA marquee, the one that went up in the fall of 1950, and stayed up to the bitter end, was certainly a dramatic advertising space, and undoubtedly you saw MONDO CANE emblazoned on it, but whether it was #2, 3, 4, 5, or 6 is the question. [[From my reading, Mondo Cane became its own film genre.) #2 came out on the heels of #1, and could have slipped in between the roadshow features still prominent at the UA during the 60s. After Cleopatra ended, the roadshow engagement of "Becket" opened immediately for the summer of '64. "My Fair Lady" was the holiday roadshow feature that year-end, so maybe Mondo Cane 2 snuck in to play the UA sometime in the fall of '64 - between Becket and My Fair Lady? Perhaps years later, as you wandered along the trash blown Bagley corridor, you encountered Mondo #4, #5, or #6 playing the UA during its death rattle period in the '80s? Yeah, that marquee holds strong and vivid recollections for a number of forum followers, I'm guessing:

[Gistok]

From West Grand Circus Park... the view down Bagley back in the 30s and 40s must have been amazing with the intact Tuller Hotel, and the tall vertical blade signs of the United Artists and Michigan Theatres... quite an impressive street wall.

This image shows the side wall of the United Artists Building facing the Tuller as a blank wall. At some point the building owner realized that there wasn't going to be another building built between the UA and the Tuller, and added windows along that sidewall that were not there when the building originally opened in 1928. This is why the windows on that side of the building don't match those of the front and Clifford side... especially before the 50s building facadectomy...

[Gistok]

Thanks for that 1950 clipping...

Now we know when the United Artists was remodeled. The original 1928 interior had sidewalls painted to look like medieval ashlar stonework, with Spanish Gothic details, and English Gothic fan vaults. Above the sidewalls there was a "Rajahstan" exotic India painted scene. There were American Indian maidens in feather headresses, and medieval statuary as well as the exotic Gothic tracery organ grilles.

During the 1950 remodeling... the stonework sidewalls were painted a flat drab color, as was all the Gothic detailing. The mural above the sidewalls was painted over, and the organ grilles were covered in drapery, "so you won't have to look at all that old stuff anymore"... which was the mantra of 1950s theater remodelings nationwide. The best remodeling did involve curtains, because in the future their removal exposed the original plasterwork. Many remodeled theaters of that era used curtains as a cheap way to remodel. For whatever reason, all of the other sidewall ornament was left exposed, giving the theater a rather awkward look, but not doing any serious damage. Those curtains remained even under the Ilitch [[destruction by neglect) era.

In 1955 the UA became the first Detroit theater to have 70mm film, and it required cutting out a piece of the procenium arch on either side of the stage, for a wider screen.