Southfield trying to become a mini-city like those on Woodward.

[D_Town]

Can a mod merge this thread with
http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...se-on-Woodward

[Det_ard]

Yup, I totally agree with you. I was being facetious. We all know Southfield will become what Detroit was in the 1970s -- a center for jobs but with declining services, schools and real estate values -- and why this will be the case. You just can't talk about it without being accused of playing a certain card ... I forget just which one right now ...

Yep. Just like Detroit, middle class blacks who seek great schools and low crime are leaving [[or skipping past) Southfield and heading to Farmington Hills, West Bloomfield and Canton.

[mark.vandorn]

Southfield is Detroit in the 90's. The only thing keeping it from being a complete ghost town is incredibly cheap and plentiful commercial property. This effort is futile, as it will never ever, ever be "livable" ever again.

[canuck]

Southfield is Detroit in the 90's. The only thing keeping it from being a complete ghost town is incredibly cheap and plentiful commercial property. This effort is futile, as it will never ever, ever be "livable" ever again.

It seems to me you are not very confident it will make a comeback, am I reading your post right?

[Scottathew]

Has 0% chance of happening. Next!

Total agreement here. Warren, my former place of residence, tried the same thing. Here is the result: http://goo.gl/maps/ucjg2

The whole "Downtown in a Campus" idea is just laughable. I've seen quite a few try, and most fail.

The closest I've seen is the Village of Rochester Hills. It's an outdoor mall at Adams and Walton that's designed to look like a downtown area. I find the whole concept to be ridiculous.

[gazhekwe]

Southfield is not a really high crime city and we have great police, very quick response time. You would be surprised. See if this link works, last week's crime report:

http://www.citizenobserver.com/cov6/...t.html?id=2442

[rex]

lacks a woodward.

[DTWflyer]

At least Southfield is trying, and attempting to update a master plan for the area.

Will it ever happen? Not likely due to all of the problems mentioned above and for the fact that Metro Detroit is a zero-sum game. No economic growth, no population growth, aging population, stagnant incomes, etc.

At least its an attempt to update an existing developed area, that many of the inner ring suburbs so badly need.

Better than the garbage posted below, click on the link if you want to vommit:
http://www.schostak.com/newdevelopments.htm

[Hermod]

You just can't talk about it without being accused of playing a certain card ... I forget just which one right now ...

You just need to go to a barbershop in Macomb County. You can talk freely there.

[D_Town]

If they are doing all of that on Evergreen then what are they planning on doing with the Northland area?

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Southfield is Detroit in the 90's. The only thing keeping it from being a complete ghost town is incredibly cheap and plentiful commercial property. This effort is futile, as it will never ever, ever be "livable" ever again.

And explain to us why it won't ever be livable again? I have thought of why you would say that, but I want to hear it from the "horses mouth"

[motz]

Troy has discussed doing the same thing, but I doubt it'll do anything except lead to more Tim Horton's, Lay-Z-Boys, etc. It just was not built to be walkable.

Also I saw Shollin on the first page and got excited that I could totally ruin all of his arguments and then realized how old the comments were Still had me laughing about how Ferndale "isn't vibrant, isn't a busy downtown, is just a dollar store and a B-Dubs". The magic of willful ignorance!

[D_Town]

Basically they want to be like these places.
http://www.friendlycenter.com/
http://www.shoppesatarborlakes.com/

[D_Town]

Troy has discussed doing the same thing, but I doubt it'll do anything except lead to more Tim Horton's, Lay-Z-Boys, etc. It just was not built to be walkable.

I think Southfield has a better chance of making this vision come true, based on how it's mapped out than Troy, but Troy would get the actual retailers.

[mark.vandorn]

Flushing money down the toilet. There is ZERO chance you can stop the Detroit creep with the glut of cheap Southfield housing. Bolster the police force with whatever money is earmarked for this absurd proposal. They're going to need it.

[Detroitnerd]

Yep. Just like Detroit, middle class blacks who seek great schools and low crime are leaving [[or skipping past) Southfield and heading to Farmington Hills, West Bloomfield and Canton.

Just because there are class dimensions mixed in with our local racism doesn't mean that the overwhelming racism of metro Detroit doesn't exist.

[motz]

I think Southfield has a better chance of making this vision come true, based on how it's mapped out than Troy, but Troy would get the actual retailers.

I liked the idea Troy had with smaller, walkable "mini-downtowns", like the development at the old K-Mart headquarters. In a suburb without a defined downtown, a model like that could work pretty well. But the amount that would cost...

[rooms222]

Basically they want to be like these places.
http://www.friendlycenter.com/
http://www.shoppesatarborlakes.com/

Or this one just an hour from Detroit:

http://www.theshopsatfallentimbers.com/

[Honky Tonk]

Or this one just an hour from Detroit:

http://www.theshopsatfallentimbers.com/

Someone PLEASE shoot me if my life come down too that.....

[motz]

Someone PLEASE shoot me if my life come down too that.....

I am not defending it at all, but I'd prefer that to a strip mall. Both suck so much though. Low density stuff makes me have a big sad.

[poobert]

Speaking of mini-cities, but if this region were still the older satellite cities [[Ferndale, Royal Oak, Birmingham, Wyandotte, Mt. Clemens) and none of the post-war crapvilles, with a Detroit that wasn't hollowed out, this region would easily be on par with Boston, Portland, Seattle, you name it, in terms of desirability. We'd easily be able to create a comprehensive mass-transit system and have loads of greenspace [[that wasn't vacant lots).

Now we just have an unholy mess.

[Detroitnerd]

Speaking of mini-cities, but if this region were still the older satellite cities [[Ferndale, Royal Oak, Birmingham, Wyandotte, Mt. Clemens) and none of the post-war crapvilles, with a Detroit that wasn't hollowed out, this region would easily be on par with Boston, Portland, Seattle, you name it, in terms of desirability. We'd easily be able to create a comprehensive mass-transit system and have loads of greenspace [[that wasn't vacant lots).

Now we just have an unholy mess.

But people made a sh*t-ton of money!

[dtowncitylover]

Speaking of mini-cities, but if this region were still the older satellite cities [[Ferndale, Royal Oak, Birmingham, Wyandotte, Mt. Clemens) and none of the post-war crapvilles, with a Detroit that wasn't hollowed out, this region would easily be on par with Boston, Portland, Seattle, you name it, in terms of desirability. We'd easily be able to create a comprehensive mass-transit system and have loads of greenspace [[that wasn't vacant lots).

Now we just have an unholy mess.

Are you envisioning the city still having a stable population of 1.5-1.8 million people with the older, streetcar suburbs supporting much of the suburban population? I have a hard time imagining it because even Boston and Seattle have their suburban/exurban wastelands.

Cities like Royal Oak, Mt. Clemens, and Birmingham would have to be denser urban suburbs on the scale of Everett or Somerville, Mass which are very dense for being suburbs.

Paris is just a big bigger than Warren. Imagine 2 million people living in Warren!

[313WX]

Are you envisioning the city still having a stable population of 1.5-1.8 million people with the older, streetcar suburbs supporting much of the suburban population? I have a hard time imagining it because even Boston and Seattle have their suburban/exurban wastelands.

Best case scenario [[had we followed the same paths as other major cities in terms of our economic planning, governance and infrastructure), Detroit would still have about 1.3 Million people right now.