Packard Plant sold... for OVER $6,000,000 [Update: No it isn't]

**bailey** · October-28-13, 11:15 AM

How could this in any way make financial sense? IF for one second we believe the plan, how is this an attractive property for that purpose versus any other empty factory anywhere in the metro area that HASN'T been left to rot for a generation or two? how many YEARS of renovation is it going to take to get it to the point of being functional?

Smells like someone looking to game the tax credit system. More power to them. But I will believe this when I see it.

**401don** · October-28-13, 11:36 AM

I don't know how all this works but shouldn't environmental assessments have been done before the property went to auction so that the buyer knows if available brownfield credits will cover the cleanup/acquisition costs? Otherwise, there are lots of states that will give away land for 6,000 jobs.

**casscorridor** · October-28-13, 12:30 PM

Modular construction is going to be outdated and surpassed by CAD/CAM/3D printing construction technologies. Prototypes have already been built and the fully-functioning system will be able to build an average size home in less than a day. Maybe they should be building the printers rather than modules.

**DetroitPlanner** · October-28-13, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by 401don

I don't know how all this works but shouldn't environmental assessments have been done before the property went to auction so that the buyer knows if available brownfield credits will cover the cleanup/acquisition costs? Otherwise, there are lots of states that will give away land for 6,000 jobs.

EAs are required as part of the National Environmental Policy Act [[NEPA). NEPA kicks in when federal money is involved. So far, no federal money has been used. Therefore, an EA is not needed to buy a piece of property using private dollars.

However, that being said if I was putting out $6 million of my money on something like this I sure the heck would want to know what I was getting myself into and have the thing thoroughly inspected for any impacts it would have on my checkbook!

**DetroitPlanner** · October-28-13, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by casscorridor

Modular construction is going to be outdated and surpassed by CAD/CAM/3D printing construction technologies. Prototypes have already been built and the fully-functioning system will be able to build an average size home in less than a day. Maybe they should be building the printers rather than modules.

Actually futurists do see this as the next wave of modular design, not as a replacement of it. However, futurists also at one time saw us having flying cars run by nuke plants in the car's trunk. There is a lot of validity and usefulness to this type of standardization of design, but the result I see as being bland styling. In addition, market forces may still say it is more effective to build using traditional materials or a future material that is not here yet. I would suspect that the costs associated with building and supplying materials to a 3-D printer is way out of scale as compared to the cost of nails and 2x4s.

Does standard CAD and 3D printing have application? Abosutely. It can make stuctures a lot stronger with minimal waste of materials. Is it practical or does it make economic sense in all cases? Probably not. Will it help in placemaking? Not if what results out of it is boring.

For those wanting to know more about what cass is talking about, I suggest you go to TED and look up design and planning. It is a fascinating concept.

**MikeyinBrooklyn** · October-28-13, 01:19 PM

I can't conceive of how the cost of the required work at the site could ever be recouped by this [[so far) vague proposal. If they have the money, I wish them luck. We certainly could use those jobs here. But at this point, color me skeptical.

**DetroitPlanner** · October-28-13, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn

We certainly could use those jobs here. But at this point, color me skeptical.

The multiplier from manufacturing operations is typically 2-3 jobs per new job at the plant. 18-24k would be a nice number.

**Richard** · October-28-13, 04:56 PM

Prepared by:

Michigan Department of Community Health
Under a Cooperative Agreement with the
Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry

Based on the available data and information, portions of the Packard Plant property are considered a health hazard because of the physical hazards from the waste materials [[including old tires and bundled plastic) present and the decay of the building structures. Lead-containing paint and asbestos-containing insulation are also present in the buildings. Large amounts of bird droppings present in some parts of the complex potentially pose human health hazards.

RECOMMENDATIONS

Remove the trash and bird droppings in the buildings from the Packard Plant property while rehabilitating the property for future use.

Repair or demolish the buildings on the property to eliminate the physical hazards.

Use appropriate techniques to remove or encapsulate the lead-containing paint and asbestos-containing insulation during demolition or rehabilitation of the property so that workers and neighboring residents are not exposed to lead or asbestos.

ATSDR Technical Project Officer

William Greim
Division of Health Assessment and Consultation
Superfund Site Assessment Branch

So basically you have lead paint,asbestos covering steam pipes,bird droppings and trash from dumpers and trespassers.

Everybody is quick to jump on the 100s of millions and massive Superfund site.But not so quick to look at facts.

Where in the country can you buy 2.3 million sq foot,even with the cost of repairs for those kind of monies.

All that is needed is lots of open floor,excess to rail and an easily trainable workforce.

Granted if one wanted to convert to condos etc like the other plan then yea 100s of millions but as a factory designed for production it is not as bad as it looks.

But I guess some will never be happy and prefer others to invest elsewhere.

**Hypestyles** · October-28-13, 06:33 PM

The sooner the grounds can be completely razed, renovated and repurposed, the better. There needs to be a Community Benefits Agreement with the developers that they will train and hire locals to be employed at this new facility-- assuming that's what they ultimately are planning to do. We'll see.

**Django** · October-28-13, 06:47 PM

Cleaning out the asbestos shouldnt be that big of a job. Every pipe in that place has been torn out except a few in the tunnel. No doubt it was all torn off the pipes on sight while scrappers prepared it for the truck so its crumbled off and onto the floors. Probably can't do much more than power wash it out after all the warped wood floors are ripped out down to bare concrete. Im not sure where else asbestos would be used other than to insulate pipes.

As far as if the transaction will go through, Show Me The Money.

**wolverine** · October-28-13, 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by casscorridor

Modular construction is going to be outdated and surpassed by CAD/CAM/3D printing construction technologies. Prototypes have already been built and the fully-functioning system will be able to build an average size home in less than a day. Maybe they should be building the printers rather than modules.

So why couldn't they adapt? That's like arguing a company that just opens is forced to use the same computers for the next 20 years. However, perhaps there is an opportunity to start investigating growing new technology sooner, and as someone who works with 3D printing, I agree there is great potential in coming decades, but not at the immediate moment.

**marshamusic** · October-28-13, 11:47 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Actually futurists do see this as the next wave of modular design, not as a replacement of it. However, futurists also at one time saw us having flying cars run by nuke plants in the car's trunk. There is a lot of validity and usefulness to this type of standardization of design, but the result I see as being bland styling. In addition, market forces may still say it is more effective to build using traditional materials or a future material that is not here yet. I would suspect that the costs associated with building and supplying materials to a 3-D printer is way out of scale as compared to the cost of nails and 2x4s.

Does standard CAD and 3D printing have application? Abosutely. It can make stuctures a lot stronger with minimal waste of materials. Is it practical or does it make economic sense in all cases? Probably not. Will it help in placemaking? Not if what results out of it is boring.

For those wanting to know more about what cass is talking about, I suggest you go to TED and look up design and planning. It is a fascinating concept.

My former husband [[now deceased) was one of the first cad/cam designer/technicians in this area. I remember, when he was working for ASC, watching a 3 dimensional chess piece roll out of a "printer".

That moment when you know things have really changed.

**Richard** · October-29-13, 12:07 AM

Here is some more food for thought on modular homes in Detroit.

Modular-home manufacturer Champion Homes has nearly completed construction on 37 rental homes in the Penrose neighborhood on the northern edge of Detroit’s blighted urban landscape.

http://www.builderonline.com/modular...at-a-time.aspx

**softailrider** · October-29-13, 05:27 AM

Originally Posted by Richard

Here is some more food for thought on modular homes in Detroit.

Modular-home manufacturer Champion Homes has nearly completed construction on 37 rental homes in the Penrose neighborhood on the northern edge of Detroit’s blighted urban landscape.

http://www.builderonline.com/modular...at-a-time.aspx

All the beautiful 1920's brick houses got torched or vandalized or whatever and they're being replaced by that shit? I think I want to cry.

**Hermod** · October-29-13, 08:24 AM

Originally Posted by softailrider

All the beautiful 1920's brick houses got torched or vandalized or whatever and they're being replaced by that shit? I think I want to cry.

Except that the 1920s homes were gone, victims of the criminal anarachy of Detroit. While you may well feel that these modular homes are not as classy from an architecture point of view, Detroit doesn't have the choice to insist on beautiful designs. The choice is between what the builders will build and vacant lots or husks of destroyed homes.

Let us blame those who destroyed the 1920s homes and not the builder who is at least constructing something in the D.

**bailey** · October-29-13, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by Hermod

Originally Posted by softailrider

All the beautiful 1920's brick houses got torched or vandalized or whatever and they're being replaced by that shit? I think I want to cry.

Except that the 1920s homes were gone, victims of the criminal anarachy of Detroit. While you may well feel that these modular homes are not as classy from an architecture point of view, Detroit doesn't have the choice to insist on beautiful designs. The choice is between what the builders will build and vacant lots or husks of destroyed homes.

Let us blame those who destroyed the 1920s homes and not the builder who is at least constructing something in the D.

also, how about acknowledging that this builder is not throwing in double wides here...

click here to see the building design that Champion is using at Penrose, where its homes emulate this historic neighborhood’s turn-of-the-century look.)

**MikeyinBrooklyn** · October-29-13, 08:16 PM

This group is serious- seriously deranged.
http://www.freep.com/article/2013102...ard-plant-deal

Wayne County should void the deal pronto, and move on to the first legit bidder.

**Cliffy** · October-29-13, 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn

This group is serious- seriously deranged.
http://www.freep.com/article/2013102...ard-plant-deal

Wayne County should void the deal pronto, and move on to the first legit bidder.

Yup. I knew it! These people just want the attention.

**401don** · October-29-13, 09:24 PM

Supposedly when this falls through they revert to the next highest bidder, but if it turns out I was bidding against someone who had no money/intention of paying why should I have to pay the amount of my last bid? They should either have an entirely new auction or allow the 2nd and 3rd highest bidders only to participate.

**Richard** · October-29-13, 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn

This group is serious- seriously deranged.
http://www.freep.com/article/2013102...ard-plant-deal

Wayne County should void the deal pronto, and move on to the first legit bidder.

The PDF was an interesting read,some it makes sense.

You can clearly see here and in comments elsewhere that there is a large majority that look at buildings such as Packard and decide that the best thing would be to tear it down.

They do not look at what the potential can be they only see what they see.

Any other city would be handing that property to someone with a plan on a silver platter and the residents would be behind 100% a plan that brings back the one thing that is the poster child for the cities state of affairs.

You can demolish the past and try and erase it,but their cities have tried that already and found it not the best answer.

Most do not realize the collection and meaning of those derelict buildings and the role they played in not only the cities history but the contribution they made to the rest of the country.

I guess if you see them day after day they become just another derelict building,rightly so,but there should also be a sense of pride.

Take one second and look at some of those buildings that not only built the city but played a major role in building a country.Maybe in this day in age that means nothing anymore but it did at one time and it showed.

It may not matter anymore and regardless of past history of the ills of the city tomorrow is another day and the residents are intrusted with the future of those assets and not as parking lots.

The city is down,but you guys know that it is in no way, out.

Those buildings are assets, would it be so bad to actually show some support behind some of this stuff,it does not cost anything.

$6,000,000 yea maybe to much,but there sure are no city bragging rights on collecting it, all things considered.

But if they do collect,it will be a game changer for a lot of other properties and should increase values elsewhere.

**Richard** · October-29-13, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by 401don

Supposedly when this falls through they revert to the next highest bidder, but if it turns out I was bidding against someone who had no money/intention of paying why should I have to pay the amount of my last bid? They should either have an entirely new auction or allow the 2nd and 3rd highest bidders only to participate.

By placing your bid are you not agreeing to pay that amount,if you had not bid it may have not gone that high.

**wolverine** · October-29-13, 11:54 PM

Originally Posted by softailrider

All the beautiful 1920's brick houses got torched or vandalized or whatever and they're being replaced by that shit? I think I want to cry.

Yeah, those are bad looking. It's actually possible to build modular 'masonry' structures. Actually, it's structural precast and computers arrange thinner cut brick and limestone detailing on the panels. It can be seen in a "dumbed down" form on strip malls and such. But if you are willing to throw a bit more money, you can almost perfectly replicate the complicated wall details, returns, and fenestration of older homes.

**Hypestyles** · October-30-13, 09:07 AM

The vetting process sucks for these auctions/RFPs. Absolutely horrible. These folks are coming across like Lyndon LaRouche acolytes. Heck, they might be.

**cman710** · October-30-13, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by Hypestyles

The vetting process sucks for these auctions/RFPs. Absolutely horrible. These folks are coming across like Lyndon LaRouche acolytes. Heck, they might be.

Any intelligent high school student could write a document many times more coherent that this. If this reflects the intelligence and experience of the group making this bid, I place the chances of success at zero. If I was a county official, I would do my best to move onto the second highest bid as soon as possible.

**bailey** · October-30-13, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by cman710

Any intelligent high school student could write a document many times more coherent that this. If this reflects the intelligence and experience of the group making this bid, I place the chances of success at zero. If I was a county official, I would do my best to move onto the second highest bid as soon as possible.

...think about the fact that, allegedly, an actual practicing physician wrote it.