State of Michigan has signed a lease for Belle Isle

**Honky Tonk** · October-02-13, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by motz

Has anyone in city government even attempted to come up with an alternative?

Of course they did!

http://www.deadlinedetroit.com/artic...belle_isle_yet

**Zug** · October-02-13, 02:02 PM

Even though I support the lease to the State, I don't think we should pretend that the State is doing this as some sort of good will gesture to the city. The State is not investing because they want to help the city...but they know they'll get a return on the investment. Once Belle Isle becomes a State park, there likely will be hundreds of thousands of people that will buy the State parks passports that normally would not. Not just Detroiters, but suburbanites who will want to visit a waterfront State park with all the bells & whistles in their own back yard. No one in the State has been begging to turn Rouge Park into a State park because it doesn't have the attributes that would actually generate money for the parks department.

**bailey** · October-02-13, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by Zug

Even though I support the lease to the State, I don't think we should pretend that the State is doing this as some sort of good will gesture to the city. The State is not investing because they want to help the city...but they know they'll get a return on the investment. Once Belle Isle becomes a State park, there likely will be hundreds of thousands of people that will buy the State parks passports that normally would not. Not just Detroiters, but suburbanites who will want to visit a waterfront State park with all the bells & whistles in their own back yard.

...and what you've described is the real world definition of regionalization and the attendant benefits of it.

Belle Isle gets investment and competent management, Detroit moves a liability off it's books, the state and region generate the revenue to pay the freight.

Now, if it's in the same lamentable condition 3 years from now that it's in now because the state fails to invest as it claims it will, I will be right there with the grapethrowers. However if the Zoo, Eastern Market and Cobo are our guides, I think I won't be shopping for produce to throw anytime soon.

**GPCharles** · October-02-13, 02:21 PM

Once Belle Isle becomes a State park, there likely will be hundreds of thousands of people that will buy the State parks passports that normally would not. Not just Detroiters, but suburbanites who will want to visit a waterfront State park with all the bells & whistles in their own back yard.

And that is a bad thing because...

**motz** · October-02-13, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

The city did work to hammer out an agreement, and both parties walked away, unable to reach an agreement. If two private businesspeople did that, you'd just say the potential deal fell through. But it's always different for Detroit. Which is a function of prejudice and bias. So there you go.

See the Kwane Kenyatta idea posted above. Their argument was and always has been "IT WILL BE FINE $6 MILLION ISN'T THAT MUCH ITS FINE WE SWEAR WE'LL JUST CLOSE OTHER PARKS". Stop trying to defend a totally ineffective council that hasn't proposed anything beyond "Let us keep it because we said so". A water park, Nerd, really?

**Honky Tonk** · October-02-13, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by motz

See the Kwane Kenyatta idea posted above. Their argument was and always has been "IT WILL BE FINE $6 MILLION ISN'T THAT MUCH ITS FINE WE SWEAR WE'LL JUST CLOSE OTHER PARKS". Stop trying to defend a totally ineffective council that hasn't proposed anything beyond "Let us keep it because we said so". A water park, Nerd, really?

Why is it that people don't understand the term "lease"?

**getmoore** · October-02-13, 03:19 PM

[QUOTE=313WX;404762]

Originally Posted by getmoore

I'm not sure how you got "we need a major mindset change in Detroit" from "so many Detroiters are used to living in blighted conditions," as if Detroiters LIKE living in blighted conditions, when in reality the situation is a lot more complicated than that.

Perhaps part of the problem is that Detroiters just aren't that paticularly thrilled about having people who share that faulty thought process "run the show" [[if that's the only other option besides the Joann Watsons).

I never said we LIKE living in blighted conditions. There doesn't take that much effort to take pride in where you live. I live in Detroit and I keep up my property. Some people are really desensitized to the blight to the point where they just exist without mowing grass or picking up trash at their homes. It's more like a "why bother" attitude. I see it everyday.Able bodied adults sitting on their porches surrounded by their own blight.
ETA. What the heck is going on with the quote feature? I am NOT arguing with myself lol!

**motz** · October-02-13, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Why is it that people don't understand the term "lease"?

Because willfully ignoring the fact that the city retains ownership of the island is a gigantic hole in their "Snyder is the worst and GOP wants to take all of our things" argument. I hate the GOP as much as anyone, but I recognize that this lease isn't a bad deal for Detroit at all.

**Wesley Mouch** · October-02-13, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by Zug

Even though I support the lease to the State, I don't think we should pretend that the State is doing this as some sort of good will gesture to the city. The State is not investing because they want to help the city...but they know they'll get a return on the investment. Once Belle Isle becomes a State park, there likely will be hundreds of thousands of people that will buy the State parks passports that normally would not. Not just Detroiters, but suburbanites who will want to visit a waterfront State park with all the bells & whistles in their own back yard. No one in the State has been begging to turn Rouge Park into a State park because it doesn't have the attributes that would actually generate money for the parks department.

So in other words, the State has the ability to make the park profitable for its taxpayers, but the City doesn't. So let the State give it a go. So long as a good park comes out the other end, I'm for it.

**BankruptcyGuy** · October-02-13, 05:26 PM

Is my math off, or:

$6MM to run the park
Passports are $10/car
350,000 or so households in Detroit
If the State signs up every city household, they'll make $3.5MM.
The state will lose a minimum of $2.5MM/year, no matter what.

Am I missing something?

**401don** · October-02-13, 06:00 PM

Does anyone really think parks without lots of successful pay-per-use attractions make money? If so, why don't investors buy some land, throw in a man-made lake, a few benches and a porta potty and charge for admission?

**Wingnatic** · October-02-13, 06:48 PM

I think this arrangement is a good thing , by the time the lease is up , we'll get it back in much much better shape than it is now , and by that time the city will be back on its feet . Whats the chances they'll have camping sites ?

**Eber Brock Ward** · October-02-13, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by BankruptcyGuy

Is my math off, or:

$6MM to run the park
Passports are $10/car
350,000 or so households in Detroit
If the State signs up every city household, they'll make $3.5MM.
The state will lose a minimum of $2.5MM/year, no matter what.

Am I missing something?

$6mm is the city's expense. Presumably, since it's a city operation, a huge portion of that is lost to inefficiency or graft, or both. I'd guess the state's o&m costs will be lower.

Beyond that, no need to limit it to city households for incremental sticker buyers. Lots of suburbanites and others use the park.

**Cliffy** · October-02-13, 10:40 PM

Originally Posted by GPCharles

And that is a bad thing because...

I can't figure it out. Its like some people are afraid of other people coming to visit Belle Isle from [[Gasp!) the suburbs. Oh no, a family of white people rolled up in a volvo wearing birkenstocks, what nerve!

**sumas** · October-03-13, 01:53 AM

Actually why is a park supposed to make money? It's recreational. Break even maybe. I look forward to it being what it used to be.

**sumas** · October-03-13, 02:20 AM

[QUOTE=getmoore;404815]

Originally Posted by 313WX

I never said we LIKE living in blighted conditions. There doesn't take that much effort to take pride in where you live. I live in Detroit and I keep up my property. Some people are really desensitized to the blight to the point where they just exist without mowing grass or picking up trash at their homes. It's more like a "why bother" attitude. I see it everyday.Able bodied adults sitting on their porches surrounded by their own blight.
ETA. What the heck is going on with the quote feature? I am NOT arguing with myself lol!

We maintain our property and have pride of place. Most of our neighbors do too. If you throw trash on our street expect a neighbor to chase you down to pick up your shit.

Due to a happy circumstance we expect to rehabilitate our garage. I don't fault my neighbors if they can't. Mowed grass goes a long way towards living in a civil area. I really live in a great community. My neighbors are just the best! Poor but proud should be our motto.

Oops, waiting for Detroit detractors to try to annihilate me. I really do have a beautiful home and wonderful neighbors. Know most area residents by name going four blocks either way. Certainly, issues come up but I feel like I am alive in my neck of the woods. There is a real sense of community that I never found in the burbs.

For the most part, Detroit isn't scary. I do admit though I would like that T-shirt that says, "Detroit, Where the weak get eaten". Hits my funny bone for some reason.

**Hermod** · October-03-13, 04:09 AM

Originally Posted by sumas

Actually why is a park supposed to make money? It's recreational. Break even maybe. I look forward to it being what it used to be.

If a park "breaks even" it is a real winner. The government entity has a service for the taxpayers that isn't a burden on the taxpayers.

**dmike76** · October-03-13, 07:33 AM

So....Can the Clownsil still kill this thing? Or is Orr merely giving it to them to vote on as a PR move? Won't he just override it if they vote it down?

**getmoore** · October-03-13, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by sumas

We maintain our property and have pride of place. Most of our neighbors do too. If you throw trash on our street expect a neighbor to chase you down to pick up your shit.

Due to a happy circumstance we expect to rehabilitate our garage. I don't fault my neighbors if they can't. Mowed grass goes a long way towards living in a civil area. I really live in a great community. My neighbors are just the best! Poor but proud should be our motto.

Oops, waiting for Detroit detractors to try to annihilate me. I really do have a beautiful home and wonderful neighbors. Know most area residents by name going four blocks either way. Certainly, issues come up but I feel like I am alive in my neck of the woods. There is a real sense of community that I never found in the burbs.

For the most part, Detroit isn't scary. I do admit though I would like that T-shirt that says, "Detroit, Where the weak get eaten". Hits my funny bone for some reason.

I don't either. I'm talking about the ones who can but wont and are satisfied with the way things are.

**Detroitnerd** · October-03-13, 08:18 AM

I agree. Every public function should break even ...

... just as soon as the Pentagon does.

**Hermod** · October-03-13, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

I agree. Every public function should break even ...

... just as soon as the Pentagon does.

It could if we started to charge the world "protection money"

Hey there OPEC, your oil tankers will get through and deliver your oil if you help pay for our navy.

**Detroitnerd** · October-03-13, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by motz

See the Kwane Kenyatta idea posted above. Their argument was and always has been "IT WILL BE FINE $6 MILLION ISN'T THAT MUCH ITS FINE WE SWEAR WE'LL JUST CLOSE OTHER PARKS". Stop trying to defend a totally ineffective council that hasn't proposed anything beyond "Let us keep it because we said so". A water park, Nerd, really?

Who's defending the council? But it's their public function to review agreements, isn't it? Just because you don't see eye-to-eye a politician doesn't mean you get to toss the legal framework that empowers them overboard. [[I don't much care for L. Brooks Patterson, but I don't propose taking away his political power just because I think he's a fool.)

"I don't care about your 'legal rights'! We're going to have our way whether it's legal or not!"

**stasu1213** · October-03-13, 08:34 AM

Great news!!! Now Belle Isle could be really put to good use. I would pay the $40 annual fee or the $300 fee to get on the island. Put rangers on the island and relieve the police so they could patrol the streets of Detroit instead of the island itself