State of Michigan has signed a lease for Belle Isle

[Eber Brock Ward]

Funny thing is, the State could abolish Detroit.

And yet you post that pic over an EM?

[Zug]

And that is a bad thing because...

I can't figure it out. Its like some people are afraid of other people coming to visit Belle Isle from [[Gasp!) the suburbs. Oh no, a family of white people rolled up in a volvo wearing birkenstocks, what nerve!

Um...I said I supported the State running Belle Isle. My statement had nothing to do with whether the State will do a good or bad job, or who comes to visit. It's not like only Detroiters go there now. It's more that I get sick of people talking about the deal as if the State will get no benefit and it's all to help Detroit. If the State is doing this out of selfless assistance to Detroit, then there are a lot more things that could be done [[i.e. repaving streets, more police support). Of all the things to help Detroit out of good will, running Belle Isle to free up $6.2 million is way down the list.

What got me thinking of this was recalling this article:
http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapi..._pushes_r.html

The DNR is actively trying to find ways to get people to buy more Passports. The article says that they could secure bonds more easily with a better revenue stream. So, no, I'm not some isolationist anti-suburbanite against the deal. I'm just saying, I like the State running it, but all the fluffy "We just want to help the city" talk from the Governor, or online posters [[not here, but on news sites) saying things like "Detroit sucking on the State's teat" and not realizing that the State is doing this for their benefit #1, and for Detroit #2.

Yes, I benefit and will enjoy Belle Isle more...but my eyes are open to what's really going on.

[dmike76]

I just don't think that pic is necessary, nor is it accurate anymore and just seeing that pic doesn't sit well with me. Its like a lot of people at the clownsil meetings or Tom Barrow screaming racism at the drop of a hat. I think that a lot of the reasons that map is so skewed is that people are afraid of the crime and high taxes also. I'm also not denying that people tie some of that with racism. I definitely do not think racism is the primary force behind the EM and the bankruptcy. Its definitely more about money. Detroit has been an economic anchor to this state for far too long and it needs to be turned around and clearly, black or white, current leadership cannot do that. I'm all for the EM if it means a good quality of living for all races in the city. I don't totally agree with how Snyder and Orr have handled things, but to me the alternative is these back door shady deals that HURT the people more [[see Kwame). The idea that leasing Belle Isle to the state has anything to do with stealing from the city is ludicrous in my mind.

[313WX]

Funny thing is, the State could abolish Detroit.

And yet you post that pic over an EM?

Could it? Even if it could just abolish Detroit, there would be a hell of a expensive and time consuming court battle up to probably the US supreme court.

I know that PA lawsuit from 1907 a lot of people reference is prior to many states [[including Michigan and Pennsylvania) passing Home Rule acts, as well as prior to the federal voting/civil rights laws that have passed since then [[keep in mind Detroit is 82% black).

[Detroitnerd]

It's just a coincidence that more than 50 percent of black people in Michigan have had their votes rendered meaningless.

It's just a coincidence that the people pushing this program are outstate whites who ... well, I've been Up North. I know how they speak about the city and its residents.

If it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck ... oh, I suppose it has nothing to do with ducks. Whatever...

[noise]

... well, I've been Up North. I know how they speak about the city and its residents.

Are you stereotyping an entire group based on their perceived stereotyping of a different group?

[corktownyuppie]

It's just a coincidence that more than 50 percent of black people in Michigan have had their votes rendered meaningless.

That's an overstatement. 50% of black people have had their vote turned from a majority vote in their local district into a minority vote in a larger district. That doesn't make it meaningless.

But I think it speaks to a greater question.

Is Detroit a Black city or an "everybody" city? Is Detroit sustainable as a Black city without financial capital from "outsiders"? Is being a majority Black and having political power centered around the Black community central to the idea of Detroit?

I think Belle Isle is just a surrogate for this conversation because let's face it. if Flint were a wealthy black mecca, and they came in unsolicited from outside, but then promised to save us $6MM a year in expenses, 22 cops, and then inject $10-$20MM of much needed capital improvement via a temporary lease agreement...and that this lease agreement allowed another majority black community to have access to the island....

No one would have any objection to it.

Let the outsiders run Belle Isle. It'll be better for us Detroiters. It'll be better for non-Detroiters. It'll be better for Belle Isle.

Then let's transition the conversation to where it really belongs...about race relations, increasing our understanding of the problems, compassionately confronting ourselves with our own unintentional contribution to the problems, and advance the dialogue to determine how we learn to live together again.

[dmike76]

Well said, corktownyuppie. Detroitnerd, maybe you don't totally understand the suburbanites, either. So I'm not welcome to improve anything in the city? Do you think that a majority of suburbanites don't like black people? I am from the suburbs and I'm not interested in stealing anything from the black citizens of Detroit. I was raised in 'Lily White Livonia' and I know a lot of Detroiters look down on that like 'I don't understand' what it's like to live in the D. And that entirely depends on what factors of living there you mean. Bad city services? No, I don't know that. Violence and poverty?[[Yes. My mom was stabbed to death in her home in Livonia and they never caught the killer. My dad actually robbed a bank in Livonia and went to jail for many years). My moniker is Dmike because I LOVE DETROIT. And it's not just about Tiger games and Hockeytown Cafe. I go to different events like Model D speaker series [[just one example, where I met MarshaMusic)and volunteering in Brightmoor with Blight Busters to meet with citizens and get acquainted with all sides of the equation. I want Detroit and Belle Isle to be as beautiful as possible, as well as many others in the 'burbs.

[bailey]

lol. omfg.

Seizing solvent suburban school districts and municipalities and folding them into a regional government against their will = "regionalism"

the State agreeing to take over the operations of non-essential luxury item at no cost to the city--as well as a commitment to spend on capital improvements, for a term of years [[with an "out clause" the city can exercise every 10) = "SLAVERY".

got it.

[dmike76]

I've talked to a lot of suburbanites and the main reason is that they're scared. Safety and city services, and the schools are the biggest issue. Not living with black people. I know a small handful that are racist and they can piss off for all I care.

[Detroitnerd]

Are you stereotyping an entire group based on their perceived stereotyping of a different group?

Hahaha. That's an interesting bit of sophistry, noise. If you want to deny that there's a great deal of ugly racism outstate, be my guest. But don't try to accuse me of reverse racism.

[Detroitnerd]

Well said, corktownyuppie. Detroitnerd, maybe you don't totally understand the suburbanites, either. So I'm not welcome to improve anything in the city?

Taking away people's democracy and implementing "solutions" from above is helping? You help people by taking away their self-determination and imposing your own order?

No wonder people bring up "plantations" when such glib ideas hold sway.

[Detroitnerd]

OK, fine. I agree with you all and changed my mind ...

"I want you to finally understand, motherfucker: This is not about race! Only a racist would bring that up!"

[dmike76]

Whatever. Digressing......YAY STATE LEASE OF BELLE ISLE!

[jt1]

I've talked to a lot of suburbanites and the main reason is that they're scared. Safety and city services, and the schools are the biggest issue. Not living with black people. I know a small handful that are racist and they can piss off for all I care.

Let's be honest, 'safety' is code speak for many. The appearance of safety also can [[and in this backwoods region, usually is) perceived by color as much as anything else.

We've heard the conversations, we've seen people moving to the other side of the street to avoid 'certain people.' To relegate the racists to a small minority is silly and naive. The outright, vocal racists may be the minority but the racists as a whole are a lot more prevalent than you are willing to admit.

Another factor is that the city needs resident. The city needs a stronger tax base. 'Loving' Detroit but living elsewhere is a start, moving to Detroit is where the real change needs to happen.

[Honky Tonk]

Click-click, Click-click, Click-click, Click-click, Click-click, Click-click, Click-click, Click-click............

[dmike76]

Agreed, and my wife and I are doing research of the different neighborhoods now. And as for safety/racism, I can't read people's minds so in many cases I only know what they're telling me. I'm making a case from a sample size; there's no way that I can speak for the entire Metro Detroit region and I'm referring to people that I know well so I do believe them that they mean actual safety.

[dmike76]

HAHAHAHAHA well played, Honky Tonk. I admit it, I got drawn into the same ol' same ol'.

[jt1]

Agreed, and my wife and I are doing research of the different neighborhoods now. And as for safety/racism, I can't read people's minds so in many cases I only know what they're telling me. I'm making a case from a sample size; there's no way that I can speak for the entire Metro Detroit region and I'm referring to people that I know well so I do believe them that they mean actual safety.

Fair enough. I was speaking of people form a larger audience. The people that comment that 'the black people down the street seem nice because they keep their grass cut' crowd. There's a whole boatload of that type. Go to many suburban communities with a nominal amount of black residents and you'll quickly see that. Some would say comments like that aren't racist but it certainly shows a preconceived notion of 'those people'

[Honky Tonk]

moving to Detroit is where the real change needs to happen.

Correct. But the majority of people aren't going to be moving to Detroit, until, well, you know, it's [[safe).......

[dmike76]

Well, crime is crime right? The numbers are there to support a lesser degree of safety aside from any race issue. And lack of a strong police force doesn't help either [[hearing the record skip a few more times now).....haha.

[NoHeartAnthony]

I wonder how real slave/rape victims feel about the judicious use of these images and sayings.

[dmike76]

Also a good point, NHA. Ms. Watson sure likes to throw 'rape' around, doesn't she? Good riddance.....

[jt1]

Well, crime is crime right? The numbers are there to support a lesser degree of safety aside from any race issue. And lack of a strong police force doesn't help either [[hearing the record skip a few more times now).....haha.

Yes and no. Violent crime and property crime are different but can both have negative effects. Many people think the main thing driving residents out of the city is violent crime. Unless you are involved in gangs, drugs or have friends/family that are, you can limit your potential exposure to violent crime [[certainly the risk is still there). Property crime is different in that regard and can chase tons of people out, impact communities but gets little to no attention from DPD, politicians, etc.

I don't know the answer or how to prioritize what but too many people neglect property crime as a major reason that people continue to leave the city. DPD will do nothing short of telling you to go [[bleep) yourself if there is property crime in progress. Hopefully the new chief changes that mentality.

Not answering property crime calls, scrapping the neighbor's homes, etc causing just as much tax base to leave the city.

[dmike76]

I think you misunderstood me, jt1. I was referring to crime in relation to race, not differentiating between different types of crime. It was based on the post earlier about safety being a double entendre for racism.