Wayne State University is one of the most embarrassing aspects of Detroit.

[noise]

so its reputation absolutely impacts the city overall.

Good thing it's a well-regarded research institution!

[Hermod]

Tuition at UM [[in state): $870 for first credit hour, $510 for additional hours
Tuition at MSU [[in state): $428.75 per credit hour

These are the only two peer institutions in Michigan for WSU. The rest of the universities in Michigan are not research universities. The faculty at WSU have skills and reputations that faculty at non-research universities do not possess.

Yes, but you aren't taught by the faculty with the skills and reputations. They are all doing research. You get graduate assistants and adjunct faculty for your money.

I am glad I went to a college with no graduate school. We had full professors teaching freshman courses.

[Lily]

What am I not understanding here? A number of years ago public universities had much stricter "rules" for who they would admit. Ditto on getting financial aid. Hearing were held, rulings made and things changed.

So now that the students who wanted rules changed so they could apply, and would get be admitted and qualify for financial aid, got admitted and got financial aid and the issue is they don't graduate and have to pay back the loans?

WHAT????

I applied to Eastern in 1968 [[yes, it was a long time ago) and was accepted. First year was a gift from my parents, i went to class, some. I studied, some.
I partied alot. Barely made a 2.0. Parents cut me off, if i wanted to stay, i paid. Once that happened, i worked full time, studied a lot. Partied little. Gp up to 3.3.
why? Because when it wasnt a gift, and it was my working full time and going to classes full time, and knowing i would have to pay the NDsL loans back......i was motivated.

....when it was all on me, i worked my butt off. Work every day, school every night. When i thought college was something i was entitled to and should be given to me, it was a different story. Classes lost out to strikes, protests, rock n rol and party time. You have to make a decision, set yourself up to fail and you will fail.

Just my 2 cents. I am sure i will get torn apart here,
but such is life.

lily

[Zug]

I get the point that many underqualified students are given loans. This can be perceived as self-serving. However, I think more people would complain if all of a sudden very few DPL students were admitted to WSU, then people would question the commitment of the university to the city. [[I remember seeing a few VALEDICTORIANS with sub-3.0 GPAs over the years from DPL schools...so yeah.)

I could say more in defense of research universities, in general. But I don't want to go on a needless tangent. And in regard to loans, thanks to Obama, student loans are a lot less brutal with income-based repayments. If you make $10,000 a year, then your payments are adjusted accordingly. If you can prove you earn $0 in income, then your student loan payments will be $0. Sure, loans suck...but I wouldn't say that WSU deserves to be singled out.

[Spartan]

Yes, but you aren't taught by the faculty with the skills and reputations. They are all doing research. You get graduate assistants and adjunct faculty for your money.

I am glad I went to a college with no graduate school. We had full professors teaching freshman courses.

I can't speak to Wayne State, but I went to MSU [[an even larger research U with more grad programs) and had one class in four years that was taught by a GA. I see it brought up all the time as an argument against larger universities. Does this really happen at schools often, or is it just a BS argument that small schools make up for it to give them leverage over the larger ones?

[Thruster315]

It's not a matter of "not liking WSU," it's a matter of a university taking advantage of its illiterate and poverty stricken region, and robbing students of time and vast sums of money. Allowing thousands of illiterate people to take out large loans, knowing they lack the aptitude to graduate [[i.e., ever be in a position to pay back the huge debt) is criminal.

It's worth $100 per credit hour because why would you pay any more than community college rates to be in a community college setting?

One can look at capitalism and say it's fleecing the community. How dare someone offer up something to the public and get compensated for it! Wayne State like so many businesses [[yes, it's still a business) offer an opportunity to the rich AND the poor. It's up to that individual to be honest and truthful with themselves to ascertain their education and the appropriate classes to take in order to pursue their dreams. Where's the self responsibility in all of this?

You're blaming Wayne State like the drunks blaming the liquor store for selling them the booze.

As far as your chintzy attempt at gauging tuition prices and calling Wayne a "community college setting"- you're also opening yourself up for the argument that people should pay more if they attend a nicer looking campus. OCC Orchard Ridge is one nice looking campus tucked away in the 'burbs surround by nice trees and ample parking- should I pay more for that non-community college setting based upon your faulty logic?

[gnome]

The OP seems to have an axe to grind against WSU. The thread title is so biased that one cannot take their opinions seriously.

but they are correct in stating it is not a very prestigious university. It ain't Rutgers, Columbia, it ain't Northwestern or even Michigan Tech. It does ok with what it does and I don't know if it could better if it would shed its Commuter College status.

would more dorms elevate the kind of students who are more serious in their academic pursuits? Are there any examples of universities changing their personalities by dropping their long held identities ?

i don't know.

[noise]

The OP seems to have an axe to grind against WSU. The thread title is so biased that one cannot take their opinions seriously.

but they are correct in stating it is not a very prestigious university. It ain't Rutgers, Columbia, it ain't Northwestern or even Michigan Tech. It does ok with what it does and I don't know if it could better if it would shed its Commuter College status.

would more dorms elevate the kind of students who are more serious in their academic pursuits? Are there any examples of universities changing their personalities by dropping their long held identities ?

i don't know.

Michigan Tech? Really? There are some very odd comparisons going on in this thread. WSU is no Oberlin, Berklee, or UVM, either, but it's not trying to be. They're not valid comparisons.

[gnome]

Michigan Tech? Really? There are some very odd comparisons going on in this thread. WSU is no Oberlin, Berklee, or UVM, either, but it's not trying to be. They're not valid comparisons.

You are correct, there are some odd comparisons, but you raise an interesting question when you wrote, "...it's not trying to be."

maybe you can clarify the issue for us; what is Wayne State University trying to be?

[C_S_14]

maybe you can clarify the issue for us; what is Wayne State University trying to be?

It's a research university that funds its overhead by scamming its largely illiterate and poverty stricken undergrad population. Wayne State is one of the most brazen and visible examples of Detroit dysfunction.

[gnome]

It's a research university that funds its overhead by scamming its largely illiterate, and poverty-stricken, undergrad population. Another embarrassing symbol of Detroit's dysfunction.

Sorry, didn't mean to interrupt, please continue to tell us about that illiterate thing. K?

[bailey]

I get the point that many underqualified students are given loans. This can be perceived as self-serving. However, I think more people would complain if all of a sudden very few DPL students were admitted to WSU, then people would question the commitment of the university to the city. [[I remember seeing a few VALEDICTORIANS with sub-3.0 GPAs over the years from DPL schools...so yeah.)

[[assume you mean DPS). Look, WSU can be an open enrollment quasi community college or it can be a real research u. It can't be both. The recent efforts noted above to raise standards and shunt unqualified to other routes is long over due. If it leads to ZERO DPS kids getting in, why should WSU shoulder the blame?

[C_S_14]

WSU has well-respected engineering, business, law and medical schools, as well as one of most regarded nursing programs in the country.

What does "well-regarded" and "most regarded" even mean? And according to who exactly?

[C_S_14]

[[assume you mean DPS). Look, WSU can be an open enrollment quasi community college or it can be a real research u. It can't be both. The recent efforts noted above to raise standards and shunt unqualified to other routes is long over due. If it leads to ZERO DPS kids getting in, why should WSU shoulder the blame?

Wayne's conduct shows they don't care about making any [[meaningful) admissions changes. They will continue to let in thousands of illiterate students that belong in 7th grade because their stupidity is profitable--to the tune of tens of million of dollars in revenue every school year.

[C_S_14]

The president estimates that about 5 percent of recently entering classes would not have been admitted under the new standards. Some in the campus community fear that Black and low-income students will make up a disproportionate share of the students who are denied admission under the new plan

5%? They need to be denying more like 50%.

[Hermod]

Sorry, didn't mean to interrupt, please continue to tell us about that illiterate thing. K?

While I don't agree with the poster, it's is correct in this case. It is [[it's) a contraction of "it is". "It" is one of the few words not to use an apostrophe in the possessive [[the dog went to its home).

[gnome]

While I don't agree with the poster, it's is correct in this case. It is [[it's) a contraction of "it is". "It" is one of the few words not to use an apostrophe in the possessive [[the dog went to its home).

Of course, that is why I made the correction[[s) in red. I see now, our young friend has corrected the mistake by going back and using the edit function.

[aj3647]

This, like almost every comment made by 48009, involves a tremendous amount of jumping to conclusions.

To better support your claims, I'd recommend posting their admission standards and processes along with comparisons to peer institutions. Preferably urban research institutions with a similar mission, to make the claim very strong. That would make a good discussion.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1250994.html

Wayne State has the lowest graduation rate of any publicly-funded University in Michigan.

In terms of the gap between white and black student graduation rates, Wayne State has the biggest gap of any school in the nation. Let me repeat that, the biggest gap IN THE ENTIRE NATION. WSU is the WORST SCHOOL IN AMERICA when it comes to the disparity between black students and white students graduating.

It's right there in the Huffington Post article if you don't believe me, read it for yourself. You still want to deny that there's a problem at Wayne State? But I guess I'm just "jumping to conclusions" based on actual numbers and evidence.

I'd actually like to shine light on these problems so we can try to fix them, whereas I guess the approach of yourself and others here is to bury your heads in the sand or stick your fingers in your ears while yelling "I AM NOT LISTENING LA LA LA LA LA" because you don't want to hear any criticism no matter how true or legitimate.

[C_S_14]

Of course, that is why I made the correction[[s) in red. I see now, our young friend has corrected the mistake by going back and using the edit function.

Finding iPhone typos on a Detroit message board = Get a life.

[GP For Life]

That's true. They should be rejecting most of the mongoloids that apply, but if they even mention stricter admission standards they get slammed for not serving the public trust.

I am a proud Wayne State grad but the value of the degree, compared to the value of the education you get, is so far out of whack that it begs for action. A lot of the perceived worthlessness of the degree is based on the fact they let the illiterate masses into the school which taints the product with their ignorance.

I would hardly call Wayne State the most embarrassing thing about Detroit. So many other worthy contenders, mainly, the entire city council for openers.

[C_S_14]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1250994.html

Wayne State has the lowest graduation rate of any publicly-funded University in Michigan.

In terms of the gap between white and black student graduation rates, Wayne State has the biggest gap of any school in the nation. Let me repeat that, the biggest gap IN THE ENTIRE NATION. WSU is the WORST SCHOOL IN AMERICA when it comes to the disparity between black students and white students graduating.

It's right there in the Huffington Post article if you don't believe me, read it for yourself. You still want to deny that there's a problem at Wayne State? But I guess I'm just "jumping to conclusions" based on actual numbers and evidence.

I'd actually like to shine light on these problems so we can try to fix them, whereas I guess the approach of yourself and others here is to bury your heads in the sand or stick your fingers in your ears while yelling "I AM NOT LISTENING LA LA LA LA LA" because you don't want to hear any criticism no matter how true or legitimate.

I guess they're fine with thousands of illiterate, desperate and poverty stricken students being taken advantage of by the city's flagship university.

[C_S_14]

I would hardly call Wayne State the most embarrassing thing about Detroit. So many other worthy contenders, mainly, the entire city council for openers.

I said "one of" the most embarrassing things about Detroit. And it absolutely is.

[motz]

I said "one of" the most embarrassing things about Detroit. And it absolutely is.

This is awesome, do you know what WSU's primary feeder district is? Do you know where the root of the problem is? Because you haven't said it yet, and your willful ignornace of the truth is a pretty telltale sign that you either a)don't full grasp the situation b) hold a grudge against WSU c) are a troll d) a continual shit stirrer who avoids facts to get all upset about things.

The problem is DPS, not WSU. DPS generally does not prepare their students for WSU or any other university. Some students at the higher ranked schools ARE prepared, but those numbers are dwarfed by the number of students who have not received a proper education that would allow for them to excel at college level courses. So until you address that problem, SHUT UP.

[noise]

You are correct, there are some odd comparisons, but you raise an interesting question when you wrote, "...it's not trying to be."

maybe you can clarify the issue for us; what is Wayne State University trying to be?

That's a good question and I think the University has been doing some soul-searching in this area, especially with a new President.

Here's some basic background info: http://wayne.edu/facts/about/index.php

I believe the new President acknowledges that we're not a University where our student body's alternatives were Ivy League schools. Balancing the University's strong research focus with an undergraduate mission that involves a struggling city and perhaps unprepared residents presents a rather difficult and unique dilemma.

WSU offers a number of programs to prepare younger DPS students for a future college career. What more can they do? That's a real question. Close the doors until DPS improves?

[noise]

What does "well-regarded" and "most regarded" even mean? And according to who exactly?

The people who understand education and who matter in Higher Ed., mostly.