About a Roundabout

[Funaho]

Well I'll take his word for it, that is after all why he's the consultant here and I'm not.

Hopefully this will all lead somewhere eventually. It's too bad a lot of this wasn't planned out six months ago so that it could've gotten into the running for the "shovel-ready" project funding from the stimulus package.

[Meddle]

He actually measured the curb-to-curb distance on that intersection to make sure it would fit. Keep in mind that not all roundabouts are the same size.

As for the parking, the bike lanes would actually improve it by creating more of a safety buffer. The car lanes would be visually narrowed [[slowing them) and kept more to the center. As you know, the vehicle lanes are poorly defined right now.

The key is not to reduce traffic flow, but to slow it and keep it moving at a more consistent pace by replacing stop lights with roundabouts.

In other words, whoever you're talking about has no concept of reality. Almost every statement in that quote is flawed.

[Todd_Scott]

In other words, whoever you're talking about has no concept of reality. Almost every statement in that quote is flawed.

Oh I'm sure you're right, because he's widely recognized as one of the top traffic engineering consultants in the world, and you're an anonymous poster who's glad he doesn't live around here, doesn't like roundabouts, and notes his potential to go "postal."

Welcome to my ignore list!

[dnvn522]

Oh I'm sure you're right, because he's widely recognized as one of the top traffic engineering consultants in the world.

Ask what his "engineering" background is.

www.walkable.org/assets/downloads/dan_cv.pdf

I personally don't think taking pictures in foreign countries takes the place of an engineering degree.

The guy's got a lot of great ideas, but he's also good at dreamin' up stuff that isn't feasible.

[Funaho]

Actually as I drove up Scotten last night and passed Vernor I actually could see that indeed that intersections ARE big enough for a small roundabout, although it does look like it is *just* enough room with nothing to spare. The Clark intersection is roughly the same but with a bit more room.

Of course like all good ideas in Detroit, there's probably no money for it.

[EMG]

I live in Scottsdale, Arizona now and the city has started adding roundabouts over the last couple of years. Here they are used only on slow streets where the speed limit is 25-30 MPH and there are advisories to slow to 15 MPH within the roundabout. At those speeds roundabouts are not so scary. Also, ours are only one lane, and there are only used at small intersections of the type you would expect to see yield signs at in the typical residental Detroit neighborhood. You don't see them used at busier intersections like the ones in New England. I've been out of Michigan for about 8 years now so I never got to experience the ones being discussed in this thread.

One thing I would quibble with regarding the ones we have here in Scottsdale is that bike lanes are temporarily eliminated so bikers have to merge with the traffic and pray the cars slow down enough. But I've been riding through them for at least two or three years now and am still alive to talk about it so I guess no harm done so far.

I've also had experience with the busier, multi-lane roundabouts through brief vacations in Syracuse, NY and Boston, MA. Nice places to visit but I wouldn't want to live in either. Boston drivers are nuts anyway so adding wilder street configurations really probably doesn't make much of an incremental difference. And I remember the multi-lane Carrier Circle in Syracuse was a bit intimidating, though I got used to it after a couple of days there. I still have a home video I shot of a roundabout in Salem and when transferring it to tape I superimposed the "Saber Dance" music on top of it - it fit very appropriately.

My all time favorite roundabout scene is in Chevy Chase's National Lampoon's European Vacation, where they get stuck in the roundabout and circle around from sunrise to sunset looking over and over again at Big Ben.

There is more information about the Scottsdale, AZ roundabout setup at this link:
http://www.scottsdaleaz.gov/traffic/roundabouts.asp

[Novine]

"I personally don't think taking pictures in foreign countries takes the place of an engineering degree."

No offense but if were left to the engineers, all of our roads would be 10 lanes wide with no place left for a bike or a pedestrian.

[Meddle]

How many times have Engineers designed and redesigned 696/96 between Telegraph and US23? Last I knew, they still hadn't gotten it right. And then there's the Malfunction Junction at Southfield and the Jeffries.

Need I say more?

[dnvn522]

No offense but if were left to the engineers, all of our roads would be 10 lanes wide with no place left for a bike or a pedestrian.

I understand. I just think perhaps there is a happy medium between Mr. Burdan's "shock value" ideas and a traffic engineer's educated ideas.

[Todd_Scott]

Of course like all good ideas in Detroit, there's probably no money for it.

I think the money can be found. Because roundabouts can serve to improve a road design and safety, you can tap into some different funding sources. And, I believe the Clark/Vernor intersection is within the Business Improvement District [[BID).

[Meddle]

Sorry, but I just don't see it. There's a building on the NE corner an a gas station on the SW corner. Unless they demolish those or reroute the road into the park, I can't see how it could be done and maintain traffic flow for trucks and busses.

[Meddle]

This is US23 & Lee Rd.

Is that a shopping center to the NE? Don't think I remember that one.

[Meddle]

Interesting. The GoogleEarth shot for 15 & Drake was taken in Jun '07 while it was under construction. Only the south portion is complete.

8 & Taft doesn't show at all.

18 1/2 & VanDyke must be due to the auto plant traffic. Doesn't look like much else is there.

[EastSider]

18 1/2 & VanDyke must be due to the auto plant traffic. Doesn't look like much else is there.

That roundabout was done to improve the 18 Mile and Van Dyke/Van Dyke Freeway mess.

[dnvn522]

18 1/2 & VanDyke must be due to the auto plant traffic. Doesn't look like much else is there.

If you had seen the roadway layout before the roundabout, you'd understand "why" it was added.

[Novine]

The photo of Lee Rd and US-23 is of the east side of the interchange. It's the west side Roundabouts that everyone freaks out about. It has two roundabouts almost side by side. They replaced two signaled intersections, one for the freeway ramps and one for Whitmore Lake Road. Strange but probably no worse than what was there before. The Taft Rd Roundabout is at Morgan. It's about half way between 8 Mile and 9 Mile Rds.

[Todd_Scott]

Here's a great article in Slate, Don't Be So Square:
Why American drivers should learn to love the roundabout.
http://www.slate.com/id/2223035/

[Meddle]

Posted: 2:06 p.m. May 10, 2010
MDOT wants your views on roundabouts

BY MATT HELMS
FREE PRESS STAFF WRITER

The state wants to know what drivers think about roundabouts, the modernized adaptations of traffic circles that are springing up across metro Detroit and Michigan.

The Michigan Department of Transportation said today that it’s teaming up with the Wayne State University Transportation Research Group to gauge public perception about the circular intersection designs through an online survey. MDOT spokesman Bob Felt said it’s part of a $200,000 research project that will include crash analysis and public education efforts.

Among the most recent roundabouts is one on 26 Mile Road over the M-53 freeway in Macomb County.

Some drivers love them. Others loathe or fear them. But when drivers learn how to use them, they generally come to like them, Felt said.

“We’re going to see more roundabouts in Michigan,” Felt said. “Once operational, these roundabouts not only improve traffic flow, but they improve safety.”

MDOT said its 15-question survey will collect feedback from the public regarding prior experience with roundabouts and opinions about how they work.

The survey is at www.michigan.gov/roundabout. Click on "Take the Roundabout Survey" link.

MDOT said surveys must be completed by June 11.

Contact MATT HELMS: mhelms@freepress.com.

http://freep.com/article/20100510/NE...on-roundabouts

[Hermod]

I wonder if the crazy intersection of Gratiot/E. Warren/E. Grand Blvd. would make a good candidate for a large roundabout? It's probably the east side version of the west side Grand River/Trumbull/MLK Blvd. junction.

Then again.... E. Warren is a one way street [[westbound) at that intersection... and I bet that a one way street could be very dangerous as part of a roundabout [[unless it was strictly an exitway coming off a roundabout).

Where the one way road enters the roundabout, you angle the entrance so turning into it the wrong way is like doing a u-turn. You have to "want" to go the wrong way to enter the street.

[Baselinepunk]

200,000 for this study!?

How about spending 200,000 to study the ineffectiveness of the "Michigan Left" instead.

[ndavies]

200,000 for this study!?

How about spending 200,000 to study the ineffectiveness of the "Michigan Left" instead.

They've already studied the effectiveness of the michigan left. It was so effective it's become a recommended federal practice.

If you had to sit through the long extra left turn lights down here in Indiana you would realize just how effective the michigan left is. It greatly improves the throughput at traffic lights.

[wolverine]

I'm quite fond of the single point interchanges that have gone up lately around Michigan and other places.

[dtowncitylover]

They had this on MDOT's Facebook page. I commented on how there should be a PR campaign on how to use them. About a day later, the administrator of the page contacted me and told me while MDOT does not have the funds for such a campaign, she would love to hear more ideas on how to promote the roundabouts. I was very surprised and encouraged that MDOT actually listens to people.

And yeah, it's hard to going Illinois, where I have family, and not being able to turn into a lot or business because there's no Michigan left! Sometimes I just wanna get out, but I remember all those cities and populations that don't have them and suck it up.

[wolverine]

^ you are also permitted to perform U-Turns at any intersection when signaled to do so and have complete right-of-way

[cmubryan]

I have to admit its nice to be able to zoom up to my parents house at 15/Drake from 14/Orchard Lake/Northwestern with virtually no traffic lights because of the roundabouts.