Schostak Bros. plans $111M 16-story office building downtown Detroit office tower

**bassab** · September-18-13, 08:25 AM

Tenant announced and drawing of building:

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...ilding-in-2017

**marshamusic** · September-18-13, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by bassab

Tenant announced and drawing of building:

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...ilding-in-2017

Good news.

Looks like it will put a damper on painting those huge ad/murals the next building, to the east [[Cadillac Towers?).

**bailey** · September-18-13, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by bassab

Tenant announced and drawing of building:

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...ilding-in-2017

So, basically Meridian is moving across the park from One Kennedy...better than moving to Warren. IIRC, they are the major tenant in their building.

I like the building ... don't quite get what is going on with the top floors, but hey...it's not a green glass suburban office park looking thing.

**JDKeepsmiling** · September-18-13, 08:52 AM

Good to see. I kind of like the midrise feel that Campus Martius has going on. No shame on a growing company wanting to consolidate and have a modern facility. This is exactly the kind of thing you want to see. Not a big fan of the design, but it at least has some character. I know I am weird on that front, I want everything to look like the Guardian.

**esp1986** · September-18-13, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by bailey

So, basically Meridian is moving across the park from One Kennedy...better than moving to Warren. IIRC, they are the major tenant in their building.

I like the building ... don't quite get what is going on with the top floors, but hey...it's not a green glass suburban office park looking thing.

Well, no they're not, actually. They are consolidating their office personnel into one building, PLUS they're expanding. Sure they are moving 600+ people already downtown to a new facility, but they are also planning to hire upwards of 400 people. So, in this case, I think it's unfair to say they're just moving across the street. In fact, based on the article, that would be a flat-out lie.

**bailey** · September-18-13, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by esp1986

Well, no they're not, actually. They are consolidating their office personnel into one building, PLUS they're expanding. Sure they are moving 600+ people already downtown to a new facility, but they are also planning to hire upwards of 400 people. So, in this case, I think it's unfair to say they're just moving across the street. In fact, based on the article, that would be a flat-out lie.

It's a flat out lie to say they are moving across the park because they are consolidating from One Kennedy and 1001 Woodward?

I think its a rather odd and glaring omission from the article to not mention where they are moving from. Especially since they repeatedly cite that the building they have the largest presence in and are moving from was the last major build in the city. One would think it would be mentioned and spun as a net positive....

The building, the first major office building development in the central business district since construction of One Kennedy Square in 2006, would include first-floor retail space and a 1,000-space, nine-story parking deck.

Originally Posted by Eber Brock Ward

This. It's replacing a surface lot with something that's not a majority parking structure.

....except that 9 of 16 floors of the building are going to be a parking deck.

**motz** · September-18-13, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by bassab

Tenant announced and drawing of building:

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...ilding-in-2017

Yay! I don't have to be super skeptical anymore!

**esp1986** · September-18-13, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by bailey

It's a flat out lie to say they are moving across the park because they are consolidating from One Kennedy and 1001 Woodward?

I think its a rather odd and glaring omission from the article to not mention where they are moving from. Especially since they repeatedly cite that the building they have the largest presence in and are moving from was the last major build in the city. One would think it would be mentioned and spun as a net positive....

....except that 9 of 16 floors of the building are going to be a parking deck.

It's a flat out lie that they are merely moving across the street, from ONE office to another.

They are moving from multiple buildings to consolidate into one, AND grow their workforce by over 50%. It may not seem like it to the uneducated on here, but that is a hell of a lot more than just moving across the street.

**downtownguy** · September-18-13, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by esp1986

It's a flat out lie that they are merely moving across the street, from ONE office to another.

They are moving from multiple buildings to consolidate into one, AND grow their workforce by over 50%. It may not seem like it to the uneducated on here, but that is a hell of a lot more than just moving across the street.

Splitting hairs here. Yes, they are consolidating and yes they are expanding. But I agree with Bailey that where they are moving from is a significant part of the story. Can't understand why Crain's didn't report that. It says they like the neighborhood, just want their own home as they continue to grow. In all, it's very positive, and having them adding to the density of the Campus Martius area should benefit 1001 and 777 Woodward in the long run.

**Gistok** · September-18-13, 12:24 PM

Well aside from the carport on the roof, and the giant "mail slot" on the 3rd and 4th floor that will complement nicely with the cheese grater across Woodward, I do have one major issue with this design...

... why does this building seem to want to ignore its' footprint?? The proverbial square peg in a round hole seems to apply here. Rather than create an interesting building with multiple angles that complement the odd shaped site, this appears to be a square building superimposed onto the site... and isn't even "fronting" Cadillac Square??

**Spartan** · September-18-13, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

....except that 9 of 16 floors of the building are going to be a parking deck.

I'm assuming the parking deck will be a separate "wing" of the building, not 9 full floors covering the entire footprint.

**stinkytofu** · September-18-13, 01:08 PM

Anybody else concerned the area between Campus Martius and Greektown is almost going to become "Parking Structure Row" between Compuware garage, this garage, and new Gilbert garage on Bates garage site? I suppose if the two yet to be built garages have ground floor retail it won't be that bad? Also, still curious how National Theatre fits into all this...

**motz** · September-18-13, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by stinkytofu

Anybody else concerned the area between Campus Martius and Greektown is almost going to become "Parking Structure Row" between Compuware garage, this garage, and new Gilbert garage on Bates garage site? I suppose if the two yet to be built garages have ground floor retail it won't be that bad? Also, still curious how National Theatre fits into all this...

If we get ground floor retail or any type of beyond-parking-structure use of the building, I'd call it a win

**Spartan** · September-18-13, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by stinkytofu

Anybody else concerned the area between Campus Martius and Greektown is almost going to become "Parking Structure Row" between Compuware garage, this garage, and new Gilbert garage on Bates garage site? I suppose if the two yet to be built garages have ground floor retail it won't be that bad? Also, still curious how National Theatre fits into all this...

Well Compuware garage has retail, this one is supposed to, and it's hard to imagine a Gilbert development without one. Also, this is going to contain a lot of offices too, it's just like it's just parking.

**rbdetsport** · September-18-13, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Well aside from the carport on the roof, and the giant "mail slot" on the 3rd and 4th floor that will complement nicely with the cheese grater across Woodward, I do have one major issue with this design...

... why does this building seem to want to ignore its' footprint?? The proverbial square peg in a round hole seems to apply here. Rather than create an interesting building with multiple angles that complement the odd shaped site, this appears to be a square building superimposed onto the site... and isn't even "fronting" Cadillac Square??

I completely agree with you Gistok.. There is enough plaza/green space in the area already. There is no need to give the building a setback. Also, did architects suddenly forget how to design a building that isn't square? Like I said before.. This is a surburban developer designing a building that belongs in a Troy office park.. While the design isn't all that bad and is striking, the footprint is completely screwed. The city should not approve the current design.

I find it interesting that we were just discussing La Defense and now this design comes out with an element that reminds me of the design in Paris.

**313rd** · September-18-13, 02:18 PM

"Parking Structure Row" could easily become "Retail/Restaurant Row" with the 10 or so storefronts along the Compuware side of Monroe St., this could easily be mirrored on the other side of the street. Leaving you with 15-20 stores?

In the Opportunity Detroit presentation, I believe Gilbert wanted to connect the Woodward Corridor and his Offices/Employees with the entertainment district of Greektown, via the Monroe St route.

Also, I'm not sure I'd be concerned with Parking Garages being erected in Downtown on some of these properties. New Garages in the CBD are required to have 60% [[I think that is the magic number) of Retail Space on the first level. This creating a walkable area? The other side would be an office/residential tower being erected no accessible to the public, with access only for employees and residents.

**iheartthed** · September-18-13, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by 313rd

"Parking Structure Row" could easily become "Retail/Restaurant Row" with the 10 or so storefronts along the Compuware side of Monroe St., this could easily be mirrored on the other side of the street. Leaving you with 15-20 stores?

It won't if all that space is dedicated to storing cars. Downtown Detroit needs people to support restaurants and stores but it dedicates more real estate to storing cars than it does to people.

**Jason** · September-18-13, 04:12 PM

Whenever a new building is being built it makes me worry. At least when it's a parking lot I can think to myself that there is a good building there that just hasn't been built yet. Then these announcements are made and the buildings are built and a site's mediocre future is cemented.

I have no idea how an architect can be given such a prominent site and produce such a lazy design.

It's a generic massing awkwardly fitted onto the site, with no consideration for the surrounding urban form.

The facade treatment is a hodgepodge of elements the architects [[and probably the public) will perceive to be trendy or modern, but which have no architectural basis.

I think it's great that the site is being developed, and I think it's great that a company is not only located downtown and is expanding, but fully investing themselves in their location by getting a building for themselves. But if a building is going to be built, it should be a good one rather than a bad one.

**esp1986** · September-18-13, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

It won't if all that space is dedicated to storing cars. Downtown Detroit needs people to support restaurants and stores but it dedicates more real estate to storing cars than it does to people.

We have so much vacant real estate, it doesn't pay to build underground parking right now. As the vacancies fill up, however, the property values will increase, and with land carrying higher values, the buildings will get taller, and the garages may begin to disappear from sight. Whether that be underground, or just covered up with a nice facade. Right now, it's just a product of the economics. In cities with higher property values, they make better use of the space taken by garages, because it is too expensive not to. Here, it isn't done, because it is too expensive to actually do it, considering the low cost of a little extra space.

**cman710** · September-18-13, 04:49 PM

I understand and share many concerns that posters on the Forum have voiced about this project. However, we are dealing with a builder and a tenant that do not have unlimited resources. Median Health has needs that must be met by the space, and the space was undoubtedly designed with that in mind. Moreover, Median Health does not want to pay more than a given price for leasing the space. The builder must work within a given budget to make the project work, and that will inevitably result in compromises that some of us will not appreciate.

Regardless, I am thrilled to see a company expanding and building itself a space in downtown Detroit. Other cities also have many imperfect buildings, and they have survived. Once the Detroit market becomes stronger, the funds might be there for more ambitious [[and beautiful) projects.

**Gistok** · September-18-13, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by cman710

Once the Detroit market becomes stronger, the funds might be there for more ambitious [[and beautiful) projects.

Cman710... I understand what you're saying... but the only problem is... what if all the premium locations are built up with mediocrity... the beautiful projects will just end up in not-so-good locations.

**begingri** · September-18-13, 05:33 PM

The design, while not great, is not the thing that bugs me. Just line the building up with street next to it! It's sitting a a freakin' angle and is going to look stupid when you're walking down the sidewalk next to Cadillac Tower and see this massive gap between buildings. Listen people, I don't except golden, ornate ceilings or gargoyles on every corner, but we can at least line up the corners and make it fit?

I'm with everyone who says a building is a better than a parking lot. I just wish we'd fill the parking lot up and not plop in a square building without regard to the street grid.

**Jason** · September-18-13, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by cman710

I understand and share many concerns that posters on the Forum have voiced about this project. However, we are dealing with a builder and a tenant that do not have unlimited resources. Median Health has needs that must be met by the space, and the space was undoubtedly designed with that in mind. Moreover, Median Health does not want to pay more than a given price for leasing the space. The builder must work within a given budget to make the project work, and that will inevitably result in compromises that some of us will not appreciate.

Regardless, I am thrilled to see a company expanding and building itself a space in downtown Detroit. Other cities also have many imperfect buildings, and they have survived. Once the Detroit market becomes stronger, the funds might be there for more ambitious [[and beautiful) projects.

I think the things that make this a bad building actually cost extra money. The random projections and cut-outs, the 3 different facade systems, and the "hat" on the top of the building are all things that cost extra money and make the building worse.

Admittedly, having a building with a non-orthogonal footprint would cost more than a building with an orthogonal footprint but I can't imagine it would be unaffordable. Or at the very least, align the building to cadillac square and not monroe.

But anyway my point is that this is a matter of design and not budget.

**iheartthed** · September-18-13, 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by esp1986

We have so much vacant real estate, it doesn't pay to build underground parking right now. As the vacancies fill up, however, the property values will increase, and with land carrying higher values, the buildings will get taller, and the garages may begin to disappear from sight. Whether that be underground, or just covered up with a nice facade. Right now, it's just a product of the economics. In cities with higher property values, they make better use of the space taken by garages, because it is too expensive not to. Here, it isn't done, because it is too expensive to actually do it, considering the low cost of a little extra space.

Is it really that much more expensive to build underground? Parking structures are expensive either way you cut it. I'm skeptical that submerging the parking underground would've really added that much more to the project.

But anyway, this will be something that the city would need to address through zoning. It's not gonna happen on its own.

**rb336** · September-18-13, 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

So, basically Meridian is moving across the park from One Kennedy...better than moving to Warren. IIRC, they are the major tenant in their building.

I like the building ... don't quite get what is going on with the top floors, but hey...it's not a green glass suburban office park looking thing.

some sort of active facade system, perhaps?