Ficano's bag man gets 97k pension.

**nain rouge** · August-29-13, 10:21 AM

DetroitPlanner, I'm driving a 14 year old car, and I'll NEVER get a pension. The whole idea behind public pensions was so that public employees could save less than us during their working years and yet complain at the same time about their financial sacrifices. And you took a job in a dying, terminal city and assumed somehow your pension would be sacrosanct? You boarded the leaky ship and expected miracles.

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Are you really comparing the impact of the Riverwalk and Campus Martius to the Monkey Bars and People Mover? Don't blame me for those sins. I was in grade school for Wash Blvd and High School for the DPM. You might as well blame me for not finishing Judge Woodward's Plan!

Oh please, the Riverwalk is an ugly concrete frying pan, with about all the potential longevity as a shining exemplar of urban planning as Hart Plaza. The only part that really works is the area integrated with the Renaissance Center.

Campus Martius? It's a nice little park. Throw in the abomination that is Capitol Park and I guess you made out equal there. "Capitol Park, all the wonderful architecture you'd expect at Red Oaks Waterpark, but with none of the water or shade!"

**Detroitnerd** · August-29-13, 10:29 AM

https://soundcloud.com/sleep-plan/fi...es-episode-one

**nain rouge** · August-29-13, 10:31 AM

But don't fret too much DetroitPlanner, I'mma reach in my pocket right now and send you some more tax money. Please don't mind that most of it's lint. I'm 25 and can't get a good job, but I suppose I owe you for all your years of service.

**noise** · August-29-13, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by nain rouge

The whole idea behind public pensions was so that public employees could save less than us during their working years and yet complain at the same time about their financial sacrifices.

No, not at all. Not even a little bit.

And you took a job in a dying, terminal city and assumed somehow your pension would be sacrosanct? You boarded the leaky ship and expected miracles.

I think most people just anticipate the employer holding up their side of the contract.

**downtownguy** · August-29-13, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by nain rouge

I'm 25 and can't get a good job, but I suppose I owe you for all your years of service.

Oh, to be 25 and that smart again! **sigh**

**DetroitPlanner** · August-29-13, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by nain rouge

But don't fret too much DetroitPlanner, I'mma reach in my pocket right now and send you some more tax money. Please don't mind that most of it's lint. I'm 25 and can't get a good job, but I suppose I owe you for all your years of service.

You don't owe me. Do you know how pensions work? Here read this:
http://www.ehow.com/how-does_4898035...lans-work.html

You really need to know this stuff else you will continue to get screwed on the job.

**corktownyuppie** · August-29-13, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by nain rouge

Oh please, the Riverwalk is an ugly concrete frying pan, with about all the potential longevity as a shining exemplar of urban planning as Hart Plaza. The only part that really works is the area integrated with the Renaissance Center.

Campus Martius? It's a nice little park. Throw in the abomination that is Capitol Park and I guess you made out equal there. "Capitol Park, all the wonderful architecture you'd expect at Red Oaks Waterpark, but with none of the water or shade!"

I'm going to stay out of the pension argument, but I do take issue with the talk of some of the City's more recent developments and the implication that those developments are somehow taking away from pensions.

The Riverwalk is not run by the City of Detroit and or the City's budget. It is run by the Detroit RiverFront Conservancy which is a 501[[c)[[3) non-profit foundation. The last report I saw is 1-2 years old, I believe, but out of $14MM in operating revenue, $13 Million of it came from donations. Non-city donations.

Campus Martius - Campus Martius is not operated by Detroit. It is operated by The Detroit 300 Conservancy which is -- once again -- a 501[[c)[[3) non-profit corporation. The Conservancy is the successor corporation to Detroit 300, Inc. -- the organization that helped Detroit celebrate its 300th birthday in 2001. Part of Detroit 300’s legacy gift to the City was funding for the construction of Campus Martius Park. The Conservancy is constructing the Park and is responsible for management, maintenance and operation of the Park under a long term operating agreement with the City of Detroit.

Similar arrangements hold true for the Detroit Zoo, Cobo Hall, and Eastern Market. In some cases the entities are operated by regional authorities. In others they are some kind of public/private entity or 501[[c)[[3). The one thing they have in common it that they are not operated by the City of Detroit...which is why the whole f-ing city is going bankrupt, and those areas are still really nice.

**nain rouge** · August-29-13, 01:34 PM

DetroitPlanner, I understand that I technically don't owe you anything. But all of the money originally invested in your pension plan came from our tax revenues, including whatever percentage that may have been taken from your check. And yes, I'm aware that a portion of your pension would be paid for by the profits generated from those investments. That's why I believe you should still receive a pension, just not what you were promised. Yes, contractual promises should in theory be honored, but in this case common sense should've kicked in and you should've realized Detroit was making impossible promises.

**coracle** · August-29-13, 02:08 PM

"...but in this case common sense should've kicked in and you should've realized Detroit was making impossible promises".

Amen! Amen! Amen! The problem is the Union position is "Gimme; gimme; gimme" and the "Management" position has been "OK it ain't our money; you can have what you want if you keep off our backs".

**DetroitPlanner** · August-29-13, 02:52 PM

So since my pension is from MERS and not from Detroit's General or the Police Fire pension fund/ Wayne County that makes it okay?

What about the police and fire who will not get SSI because their SSI was used to fund their pension? What do you do about them? These are the folks I feel the worst for. Heck at least my parents can live in my basement if it comes to that.

**MikeM** · August-29-13, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by nain rouge

I'm 25 and can't get a good job, but I suppose I owe you for all your years of service.

Ha-ha! Christ almighty, you sound like a 60 year old crank at some industrial plant.

**Cliffy** · August-29-13, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by MikeM

Ha-ha! Christ almighty, you sound like a 60 year old crank at some industrial plant.

The biggest problem with this country is people like nain rouge who want to drag everyone down with him because he doesn't have the education and skills to get his idea of a "good job". "Oh no I don't have this and you shouldn't either. You're a parasite blah blah blah."

**nain rouge** · August-29-13, 05:38 PM

I have a college education. The problem is the previous generations allowed Detroit to down the toilet, just like they're allowing this country to go down the toilet, and now they're going to whine about how no one wants to pay their pensions anymore. Guess what? You let the government spend all the money that was put aside for your pensions, and like suckers you kept voting Republican and Democrat like there was no choice.

And I do think that if we're all going down, you can't put in on the back of the next generation of taxpayers to keep the public pensions afloat.

**Novine** · August-29-13, 08:02 PM

"And I do think that if we're all going down, you can't put in on the back of the next generation of taxpayers to keep the public pensions afloat."

News flash - you're not the only one paying taxes and many people are likely paying more than you do.

**Cliffy** · August-29-13, 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by nain rouge

I have a college education. The problem is the previous generations allowed Detroit to down the toilet, just like they're allowing this country to go down the toilet, and now they're going to whine about how no one wants to pay their pensions anymore. Guess what? You let the government spend all the money that was put aside for your pensions, and like suckers you kept voting Republican and Democrat like there was no choice.

And I do think that if we're all going down, you can't put in on the back of the next generation of taxpayers to keep the public pensions afloat.

Not trying to pick on you but what is your degree in. I'm trying to figure out why you can't get a "good" job.

**nain rouge** · August-30-13, 02:58 PM

I have a degree in journalism. I can get jobs in my field, but the pay is terrible. And trust me, I'm not the only one struggling. Just recently I worked with the lady that ran Birmingham Patch at a bookstore - yes, she left Patch to work for a bookstore.

It was probably a mistake to get a degree in journalism, but some of us crazy dreamers still believe that we need a strong, honest media to keep the government in check. I think it's as necessary to the health of our society as whatever they're doing up in the offices of Quicken Loans.

**nain rouge** · August-30-13, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by Novine

News flash - you're not the only one paying taxes and many people are likely paying more than you do.

Right, and they should be twice as mad as I am! But complacency rules the roost in America. "Oh, we're bombing Syria? That's nice. What's for dinner?"

**downtownguy** · August-30-13, 07:08 PM

Originally Posted by nain rouge

And you took a job in a dying, terminal city and assumed somehow your pension would be sacrosanct? You boarded the leaky ship and expected miracles.

Originally Posted by nain rouge

It was probably a mistake to get a degree in journalism, but some of us crazy dreamers still believe that we need a strong, honest media to keep the government in check. I think it's as necessary to the health of our society as whatever they're doing up in the offices of Quicken Loans.

Let me get this straight. You mock DP for choosing a career in public service and accepting the trade off of higher salary for a "secure" pension, yet you want us to admire you for your pollyannish notion that journalism is going to protect us from the likes of Dan Gilbert? Or at least I think that's what you're saying because your sentence construction is a bit confusing. Can't for the life of me figure out why you're not making 6 figures working for the fourth estate just yet.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · August-31-13, 10:32 AM

Bottom line...we're quickly becoming a nation of "have's and have nots". Having a college education doesn't ensure success anymore. It's who you know, not what you know. Especially after you get the bill for all that education that you have to pay back, then have to settle for a job that you didn't go to school for in the first place.

**Wesley Mouch** · August-31-13, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid

Bottom line...we're quickly becoming a nation of "have's and have nots". Having a college education doesn't ensure success anymore. It's who you know, not what you know. Especially after you get the bill for all that education that you have to pay back, then have to settle for a job that you didn't go to school for in the first place.

Yes, haves and have nots.

Haves = public servants

Have nots = taxpayers without services

I'm OK with pensions and good pay for public service. I'm not OK with greedy unions stiffling innovation and consigning our city bureaucracies to yesterday's needs.

We could pay public servants 50% more and overfund their pensions if the Unions would 'just get out of the way' of progress.

**nain rouge** · September-01-13, 09:55 AM

Or at least I think that's what you're saying because your sentence construction is a bit confusing.

Oh, you totally got me on my sentence structure. And I'm supposed to be a journalist? Let me crawl back into my hole. Obviously, I'm the bad guy here, since I never asked for a pension!

**Wesley Mouch** · September-01-13, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by jj84

As sick as it is, he is due the money, he carried his pension over from his last job, which he is allowed to do. He bought into the Wayne County system at over 300K. Bobby's fault that he gave him the buy out and the voters need to change the laws in the state constitution that gave him the right to be able to do that

No, he's due a decent pension at age 67. Retiring today before that or with more than a decent pension is akin to stealing. You don't get ownership just because you have possession.

**Kevgoblue** · September-01-13, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

No, he's due a decent pension at age 67. Retiring today before that or with more than a decent pension is akin to stealing. You don't get ownership just because you have possession.

100% agree. Thank you for getting us back on topic.

And for all jumping on Nain....why should a 20 yr old feel any different? They're being asked to sacrifice [[work harder for less, pay high tax rate, receive minimal services) to pay for a pension plan that they'll never get the opportunity to participate in. Every time the topic comes up the immediate response is that its unfair to cut money promised to seniors. If there's not enough money to go around why shouldn't all be asked to sacrifice? Heck, the seniors have more ownership in the situation anyhow. Its the politicians they voted in that were the ones who chose to misappropriate or not contribute to pension funds. Not to mention voting for trade policies that ship all of our middle class jobs to the low wage country of the moment.

And for what its worth, I'm much closer to entering my retirement years than leaving my 20's.

**Honky Tonk** · September-01-13, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by Kevgoblue

100% agree. Thank you for getting us back on topic.

And for all jumping on Nain....why should a 20 yr old feel any different? They're being asked to sacrifice [[work harder for less, pay high tax rate, receive minimal services) to pay for a pension plan that they'll never get the opportunity to participate in. Every time the topic comes up the immediate response is that its unfair to cut money promised to seniors. If there's not enough money to go around why shouldn't all be asked to sacrifice? Heck, the seniors have more ownership in the situation anyhow. Its the politicians they voted in that were the ones who chose to misappropriate or not contribute to pension funds. Not to mention voting for trade policies that ship all of our middle class jobs to the low wage country of the moment.

And for what its worth, I'm much closer to entering my retirement years than leaving my 20's.

You forgot to mention he's [[or she's) also paying into a Social Security program that they'll never collect from.

**DetroitPlanner** · September-01-13, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Yes, haves and have nots.

Haves = public servants

Have nots = taxpayers without services

I'm OK with pensions and good pay for public service. I'm not OK with greedy unions stiffling innovation and consigning our city bureaucracies to yesterday's needs.

We could pay public servants 50% more and overfund their pensions if the Unions would 'just get out of the way' of progress.

With decreases in pay, years of no raises as the revenues are not there [[not due to doing a bad job mind you), increases in medical copays/ deductibles/ % for the plans, and the elimination of other benefits most public servants are making far less now than they did seven years ago. Add to that inflation and some having mandatory furlough [[unpaid) days, nearly all have given up quite a bit. I wish I had a greedy union on some days, but alas there is not international brotherhood of public administrators and planners.

By asserting that your average public servant is a 'have' is downright dillusional. Many of my friends became members of the police or fire departments upon graduation from high school. This is the bulk of City employees. They are risking their lives to protect and serve. Don't you think they deserve to know that their kids are taken care of when in a creaky burning house that should have been torn down years ago, or chasing some guy with a gun? These are also the ones who stand to lose the most as they do not have SSI.

Lets get back on topic. I doubt this guy who the post is about was part of some greedy union. Yes he most likely was well connected and came from money to be able to float $300k now to ensure a return like he is getting. That is not the case with 99 percent of public servants. Most of us are scraping by with a lot less than we used to have.

Still I love my job and am amazed I get paid to do it. I'd do it even if it meant going back to working 80 hours a week in order to pay my bills.