Benny Napoleon Won???

[Novine]

"That sounds about right for a typical person working in Detroit's government.

Poll workers aren't city employees. Some people who work for the city may take the day off to work at the polls. But almost all poll workers are hired specifically to work elections.

[rb336]

Excellent question and observation. An unusual blurt-slip for the generally disciplined Duggan campaign.

nope, don't think it was a slip at all. just a not-so-subtle attempt to paint his opponent as part of the corrupt culture of Wayne County/Detroit politics

[Locke09]

"That sounds about right for a typical person working in Detroit's government.

Poll workers aren't city employees. Some people who work for the city may take the day off to work at the polls. But almost all poll workers are hired specifically to work elections.

Don't you find it interesting that some people cannot seem to comprehend that, although it has been said several times on this very thread? But they question the intelligence of "government workers."

[Locke09]

It is sooooooooooooooooooooo easy to throw Winfrey under the bus on this. First, let me say, I'm not defending her. Instead, I would prefer to see how this plays out before assigning blame.

If this is a matter of errors made by the poll workers, then both she and the SOS are to blame. When the assumed "kook" Robert Davis was complaining that she had not yet certified election inspectors, and that there were problems with the people she had appointed, with the election just days away, she said he was wrong and the SOS backed her up. The SOS said she could certify them on election day if she wanted to. I'm going to assume certification requires that they have been trained. So she and the SOS knew she had a training problem.

[nativegirl]

The opinion of the common Detroit is pretty low here and in general. First, the big deal about 'two g's' in a name. Now Detroiters cant read, comprehend or count and we dont even know who the inspectors were. Its a good thing you guys have this website to get all of your condescending, insulting, and low opinions of Detroiters in a safe anonymous. We really wouldnt want that attitutide to show through to Detroiters when you meet them in person.

If these comments were on facebook and people could see your face...whoaboy..

Reading is SO fundamental. I did not mention anywhere in my post that ALL pollworkers are unintelligent just SOME. There are over 6k pollworkers on a given election and you think everyone is going to be able to understand the law? Puh-lease. Get off your damn soap box and read. And no, I don't need a website to make these comments as mine are well documented with the powers to be at the Department of Elections more importantly Mr. Daniel Baxter. Perhaps there is a reason behind his abrupt departure right after the primary election.

[coracle]

First "they" [[the government workers) qualify a guy to run that isn't eligible, then "they" get the wrong date on the billboards for the Mayoral Election, and the wrong Election name and just when you think "they" can't get any worse you find they can't count. Stand by for the next cock-up[[s)

[Honky Tonk]

First "they" [[the government workers) qualify a guy to run that isn't eligible, then "they" get the wrong date on the billboards for the Mayoral Election, and the wrong Election name and just when you think "they" can't get any worse you find they can't count. Stand by for the next cock-up[[s)

In all fairness, it wasn't because they "couldn't count", it was because arabic numerals were used instead of hash marks. A minor issue, IMO, but rules are rules.

[313WX]

"That sounds about right for a typical person working in Detroit's government.

Poll workers aren't city employees. Some people who work for the city may take the day off to work at the polls. But almost all poll workers are hired specifically to work elections.

Either way [[and it is semantics, because they're still on the city of Detroit's payroll to help a department within city government to function, even if temporarily), that mindset described by Honky Tonk and elaborated on by myself is still prevalent. This is exactly why milions of dollars in federal aid has been sent back, 53 brand-new Dodge Chargers were sitting in storage not being used by the DPD, these roughly 20,000 votes are sitting in limbo and, quite frankly, why Snyder thought it would be best to have an EM guide Detroit through bankruptcy versus the elected officials.

[corktownyuppie]

Don't you find it interesting that some people cannot seem to comprehend that, although it has been said several times on this very thread? But they question the intelligence of "government workers."

I personally don't think the government workers are unintelligent. I do, however, think that we have a history of government managers being poor managers. And that is actually one of the fundamental problems with this whole situation [[not just the election, but the entire city business). I don't blame the people on the bottom level of the organization, I blame their managers and their leadership.

Of course, the people at the bottom contribute toward the problem by electing poor leadership, but that's because they're also mostly influenced by their leaders, who have historically been ill-equipped to handle the gigantic scope of our problems.

[Scottathew]

If it made any difference in who would be in the final election, I'm sure a recount would be forced. In this case it is possible that since it doesn't matter they won't do one. But you are right that as a principle you can't have people's votes disregarded because the election workers make a mistake.

In this case I say either let the votes count, or do a re-count, err re-tally.

Although the outcome isn't effected, Napoleon and Duggan win the primary either way, it's very important that these voices be counted.

The people of Detroit have lost confidence, and rightfully so. Their kids are underserved by DPS. The police don't come when they call 911. Injured people are left to die in the streets while ambulances sit in disrepair. The fire department lacks equipment and responds slowly.

And now their votes don't even count too? It's not acceptable to me to let that happen.

[motz]

First "they" [[the government workers) qualify a guy to run that isn't eligible, then "they" get the wrong date on the billboards for the Mayoral Election, and the wrong Election name and just when you think "they" can't get any worse you find they can't count. Stand by for the next cock-up[[s)

Explain why Duggan wasn't eligible to run as a write-in candidate. His paperwork was filed on time, he followed the rules for a write-in candidate. Seriously, this conspiracy theory/paranoia/corruption accusing needs to stop, both against Duggan and Napolean.

Edit: And if you ask me, I think it was Tom Barrow who poked around election law and alerted them to the technicality. Hence Duggan's "my opponents" comment being fairly accurate.

[313WX]

I personally don't think the government workers are unintelligent. I do, however, think that we have a history of government managers being poor managers. And that is actually one of the fundamental problems with this whole situation [[not just the election, but the entire city business). I don't blame the people on the bottom level of the organization, I blame their managers and their leadership.

Of course, the people at the bottom contribute toward the problem by electing poor leadership, but that's because they're also mostly influenced by their leaders, who have historically been ill-equipped to handle the gigantic scope of our problems.

Your second paragraph is key though. Although those at the bottom aren't directly responsible for the city's dysfunction, the fact that they've been quietly going along with the dysfunction by electing incompentent leaders is just as bad. It's creates the vicious negative feedback loop and vacuum Detroit finds itself in. The incompetent managers simply breed more incompetent managers and leaders, and after while that attitude trickles down to the workers at the bottom level too

For example, take Janice Wnfrey's response to the news media about the crap that was going on with her office not certifying the petition of her opponents for the city clerk's office. That's just a taste of the attitude people have to deal with when working with Detroit's government.

[rb336]

In this case I say either let the votes count, or do a re-count, err re-tally.

Although the outcome isn't effected, Napoleon and Duggan win the primary either way, it's very important that these voices be counted.

The people of Detroit have lost confidence, and rightfully so. Their kids are underserved by DPS. The police don't come when they call 911. Injured people are left to die in the streets while ambulances sit in disrepair. The fire department lacks equipment and responds slowly.

And now their votes don't even count too? It's not acceptable to me to let that happen.

best reply yet. DPS is​ improving, but it had such a long way to go that it is difficult to recognize the improvement

[Wesley Mouch]

This is one of the dumbest reasons I've ever heard for throwing ballots out. Were these workers really not instructed on how to correctly count/mark the ballots?

The other thing to take from this is that Duggan still won the election in a landslide but the ballot counters are imcompetent so it looks like Napolean won.

Just like the accounts receivable or cashier department apparently wasn't told that each incoming check is recorded in a log, and processed for deposit immediately upon receipt.

This helps reinforce that Detroit's biggest problem isn't the state nor the economy. Detroit's biggest problem is the apologists who keep saying that this is a national problem. No, its a local incompetence problem -- at least to a very large degree.

[dookie joe]

For the record my opinion has always been that indeed Detroiters could, can and did spell Duggan correctly and with deliberation of vote and voice so expressed.

The percentage vote for a 'write-in' was impressive to me withstanding any reservations I had/ have about Duggan. The votes spoke to a diversity of thought not considered possible, and assumptive leaders have been so informed.

...or else McNamara Machine Duggan was able to get to the crooked preachers, whose flocks will do as they're told at the voting booth.

That's all you need to win in Detroit: Win over the crooked preachers. Kwame did it; so did Duggan, spawned from the same slimy political machine as Kwame.

[Locke09]

I personally don't think the government workers are unintelligent. I do, however, think that we have a history of government managers being poor managers.

Of course, the people at the bottom contribute toward the problem by electing poor leadership, but that's because they're also mostly influenced by their leaders, who have historically been ill-equipped to handle the gigantic scope of our problems.

The City has many incompetent people in leadership positions - most either elected or appointed.

But I wouldn't blame the employees for them. Remember that employees are not necessarily citizens. When they are citizens, you'd be surprised how many did not vote for the people in charge, praying that a new administration would come in and sweep out the incompetency and corruption. When they do try to make some issue public, they are often met with claims that they are just trying to resist change.

This is just a wild guess, but I'm going to predict that both newspapers will endorse Janice Winfrey and she will be re-elected by a landslide. After all, the State just stated that in spite of what has happened she "runs a good election day." And for her part, she has just stated that this is all Wayne County's fault for not bringing the issue to her attention earlier.

People will conveniently forget now that she was warned that her election inspectors were not qualified.

[coracle]

In all fairness, it wasn't because they "couldn't count", it was because arabic numerals were used instead of hash marks. A minor issue, IMO, but rules are rules.

I know; but it's so amusing when you get the chance to poke fun at the "authorities". I felt a small twinge of remorse after I pressed the "Post" button but I soon got over it. I decided not to let myself get diverted by the facts.

[Honky Tonk]

I know; but it's so amusing when you get the chance to poke fun at the "authorities". I felt a small twinge of remorse after I pressed the "Post" button but I soon got over it. I decided not to let myself get diverted by the facts.

Well then, ENJOY!

[EastsideAl]

I'm no big fan of Janice Winfrey, but all of the people here tossing the City Clerk under the bus for this decision are missing something central to what is going on here - this was a Wayne County Board that did this, not the city. Perhaps temporary poll workers should have been better trained in counting write-in votes, but the decision not to count the votes tallied by numerals rests wholly on the Wayne County Board of Canvassers and the County Clerk's office. And apparently, Winfrey is unhappy about their actions too:
http://www.freep.com/article/20130821/NEWS01/308210106/

From what I can tell from the various stories, it appears that the County never told the city there was any problem. But then Wayne County's attorney, Janet Anderson-Davis, raised a last-minute objection, and Wayne County Clerk, Cathy M. Garrett [[anyone know who she is?) told them not to count the votes without hash marks.

Frankly, I see the shadow of the hand of increasingly desperate and unhinged Tom Barrow here. Napoleon would have little reason to mess with the vote totals, since he is going to be in the top 2 anyway, and that's really all that matters at this point. But if undeserving 'outsider' Duggan could be made to lose enough votes... and the much more deserving Tom B. could somehow gain about 2,000... then, hallelujah, runoff here he comes!!

[EastsideAl]

And here is perhaps a little reason for County Clerk Garrett to feel some animus towards the Duggan family:
http://www.freep.com/article/2012080...-against-clerk

[Honky Tonk]

And here is perhaps a little reason for County Clerk Garrett to feel some animus towards the Duggan family:
http://www.freep.com/article/2012080...-against-clerk

Patrick Duggan is a relative?

[EastsideAl]

Patrick Duggan is a relative?

He's Mike's father.

[Cliffy]

Let me get this straight. The city workers miscounted the votes by using numerals instead of slashes and they just said we just have to throw away the votes now because we miscounted them. How stupid does that sound.

[EastsideAl]

Let me get this straight. The city workers miscounted the votes by using numerals instead of slashes and they just said we just have to throw away the votes now because we miscounted them. How stupid does that sound.

Yeah, except that's not what happened. What happened is that some of the temporary poll workers that the city hires apparently wrote down the write-in vote totals in numerals on the count sheets in their poll books, without showing the count in hash marks.

The City Clerk approved the vote totals. But then the County Clerk threw out all the write-in votes that were totaled in numerals but not counted with hash marks in the poll books and submitted new vote totals. The County Board of Canvassers basically refused to certify the vote totals altogether, and threw the whole mess into Lansing's lap.

[Locke09]

The Board of Canvassers never threw any votes out, even though someone might have suggested it. They certainly should have brought the error in recording the vote to light earlier, but at the point they did bring it up it was too late for them to do a hand count.

Janice Winfrey has successfully, with the aid of the state, deflected attention away from the fact that she did not handle certification of the election inspectors properly. She was cavalier about it when it was brought up before the election as she is cavalier about every mistake she makes. She never owns any mistake and that means she is unteachable.

Also, the Board of Canvassers should not have just had her people come in and add hash marks as she suggests they might have done. There are reasons the hash marks are done at the time of counting. You cannot "show your work" after the fact. If the state doesn't hand count these votes now, but just adds hash marks, then it will do nothing to alleviate the concern that something is very wrong here.

If the hand count matches the poll books perfectly, Janice Winfrey is still incompetent and unteachable, in my opinion. But I expect her to be re-elected by a landslide.