Benny Napoleon Won???

[softailrider]

I'm surprised but not shocked - there's still people who don't believe KK won the 2nd election, remember when the lights went out?

[Locke09]

Why is Mike Duggan issuing a statement saying "My opponents tried another dirty trick today"? Did Napoleon's camp have something to do with the Board of Canvassers deciding to throw these votes out? It doesn't alter who is going to be in the general election. All it does is shine a negative light on Janice Winfrey and the Elections Department.

Did someone raise a protest that we don't know about?

[jt1]

We were conned into believing the average voter couldn't write "Duggan" correctly in the right space, but it turned out to be a ruse by those in the Public Employ to hide that fact they can't accurately count numbers that are numerically less than their Annual Pensions.

So some people are deserving of pensions but others aren't? Can we critique your pension as well?

[Zacha341]

Further, as I said before a vote for the Dugeon barber guy would not have helped Napoleon. It only served as a spoiler vote to further water down and reduce votes for Napoleon.

This is going to be interesting... the rub is that if people feel their vote for Duggan was disenfranchised they'll really come out and vote for him in November! IMO....

And wouldn't those votes put Dugeon the barber in third place instead of just thrown out? I'm TOTALLY CONFUSED!! The Feds! The Feds!

[Zacha341]

Interesting... Mishandled how? Where? At the end of the night precinct count, or when the ballots are taken to the main headquarters? Perhaps it is time for some election workers to speak out...?

The story is changing still. It appears they are planning on throwing out 18,000 votes that might have been "mishandled"?

[Locke09]

We were conned into believing the average voter couldn't write "Duggan" correctly in the right space, but it turned out to be a ruse by those in the Public Employ to hide that fact they can't accurately count numbers that are numerically less than their Annual Pensions.

Election inspectors handle the count of the write-in vote. They are not "public employees" eligible to receive a pension. They apply to be inspectors and are appointed by the clerk. They are employees only if employees want to use their vacation time to work on election day and apply to work.

[Zacha341]

^^^ Thanks for stating this. No system is perfect or without corruption, but my aunt was an election worker for years. Started out in different areas of the process making her way up to super poll worker and inspector. There are numerous 'close' processes and counting and sealing in envelopes of ballots, spoiled, write-ins, etc. Processes ignored/ messy ballots books etc. could have you not paid [[or called back for future elections) as signatures of that election staff crew were required before ballot delivery.

[getmoore]

Why is Mike Duggan issuing a statement saying "My opponents tried another dirty trick today"? Did Napoleon's camp have something to do with the Board of Canvassers deciding to throw these votes out? It doesn't alter who is going to be in the general election. All it does is shine a negative light on Janice Winfrey and the Elections Department.

Did someone raise a protest that we don't know about?

Yeah why is he publicly blaming Napoleon? Is it something that he knows that we don't?

[coracle]

So some people are deserving of pensions but others aren't? Can we critique your pension as well?

I'm sorry you read that into my attempt at wry humor. My comment did not suggest a pension for some and no pension for others, it was aimed at the size of some pensions which I as a Private Sector taxpayer fund. My own pension will be Soc. Sec. which I pay [[and am taxed on) my from salary and a private pension which I buy with after tax dollars.

[webband1]

RE: Duggan's statement.

It doesn't read to me that he is blaming Napoleon. It reads more that he is blaming "them". I'm not familiar enough with the process at the County Board of Canvassers to know whether some person brought this issue up, or whether they considered it. The news articles published on this story have, not surprisingly, been lacking in the detail department.

[Lowell]

Unofficial totals in the Detroit Mayoral race from the August 20 Board of Canvassers count:

Benny Napoleon 28,391 up 39 votes from August 6

Mike Duggan 23,970 down 20,425 votes from August 6

...

Tom Barrow 3,699 up 9 votes from August 6

Barrow gains 9 votes!! Barrow Gains 9 votes!! The momentum shift is on!

[Scottathew]

Wait a second here...

So this issue only affects Duggan's numbers, that means it has to do with how write-in's were tallied.

Napoleon is cheering that it's a victory for voting rights because people had their votes invalidated because bat-shit crazy rule about numerals versus tally hashes?

So some election workers counted how many people wrote "Duggan" and if they wrote a tally-hash for each one the votes are counted.

But if the election worker handling your ballot wrote the number of "Duggan" votes in Arabic number form those votes don't count...

That's absolutely insane. The fact that Napoleon is touting this as a good thing is just astonishing.

This is a joke and an outrage. The people of Detroit deserve better.

[webband1]

Another thing, Duggan and Napoleon seem to be on the same page here, in that both think this is ridiculous, and that we obviously need the feds to come in and supervise the November election.

Also, it seems ridiculous that tabulating write-ins with arabic numerals [[1, 2, 3, etc) vs. tally marks would be reason to throw out ~20,000 otherwise properly cast ballots. Using a different counting system is reason to invalidate the people's votes?

On the whole, the Board of Canvassers probably did the right thing by passing the buck to the State on this one. But JFC this shouldn't even be an issue... There was obviously going to be many write-in votes this election, that was clear. Poll workers should have been properly trained. This is not the fault of those that did the counting, but those that failed to train and inform the poll workers/inspectors on how to do their job. Where's that "Janice Winfrey's got to go" thread????

[webband1]

Wait a second here...

So this issue only affects Duggan's numbers, that means it has to do with how write-in's were tallied.

Napoleon is cheering that it's a victory for voting rights because people had their votes invalidated because bat-shit crazy rule about numerals versus tally hashes?

That's absolutely insane. The fact that Napoleon is touting this as a good thing is just astonishing.

This is a joke and an outrage. The people of Detroit deserve better.

I think you're misreading Napoleon's statement. To me, I read the first half as a statement of fact. The Board was prepared to say Napoleon came in first. The second half says, to me, that the idea that ~20,000 votes can be tossed is an outrage [[Napoleon uses the words "very troubling"), and that the City needs to be overseen by the Justice Dept for the November election. I'm inclined to agree with him.

[Scottathew]

I think you're misreading Napoleon's statement. To me, I read the first half as a statement of fact. The Board was prepared to say Napoleon came in first. The second half says, to me, that the idea that ~20,000 votes can be tossed is an outrage [[Napoleon uses the words "very troubling"), and that the City needs to be overseen by the Justice Dept for the November election. I'm inclined to agree with him.

I re-read it and I think your interpretation of his words is more accurate than my interpretation.

[webband1]

I re-read it and I think your interpretation of his words is more accurate than my interpretation.

To be honest, my first impression was the same as yours. As is the impression of those commenting on his Facebook page. I'm hoping my second look interpretation is the correct one [[I really can't see anyone cheering the tossing of ~20,000 votes due to a different counting method, but I've been wrong before.)

I think his statement could be a little more artfully crafted.

[Locke09]

Napoleon is cheering that it's a victory for voting rights because people had their votes invalidated because bat-shit crazy rule about numerals versus tally hashes?

So some election workers counted how many people wrote "Duggan" and if they wrote a tally-hash for each one the votes are counted.

But if the election worker handling your ballot wrote the number of "Duggan" votes in Arabic number form those votes don't count...

That's absolutely insane. The fact that Napoleon is touting this as a good thing is just astonishing.

This is a joke and an outrage. The people of Detroit deserve better.

I haven't seen Napoleon cheering that this is a victory for voting rights. He is saying this is outrageous as well and is a disenfranchisement of people's votes. Which is why I'm wondering why Mike Duggan is in fact saying that Napoleon's campaign is behind this. Is he saying that Napoleon's campaign told the canvassers not to certify the election or raised a protest? It doesn't even change the outcome.

As I look at the SOS website it gives reasons for the hash marks. It seems that this provides the ability to ensure that they actually touched each ballot and made a mark immediately, for each ballot they recorded, without transference from some other document or keeping the number stored in their heads.

It's like counting your sheep as they go through the gates. You can have a piece of paper where you make a mark for each sheep as it goes through. Or you can just keep counting in your head. Which produces the most reliable number? Which can be audited?

That being said, why can't they just recount all the write-ins, unless they also suspect some fraud? Or maybe they don't have the authority to do that, hence they kicked it over to the State.

[webband1]

I haven't seen Napoleon cheering that this is a victory for voting rights. He is saying this is outrageous as well and is a disenfranchisement of people's votes. Which is why I'm wondering why Mike Duggan is in fact saying that Napoleon's campaign is behind this. Is he saying that Napoleon's campaign told the canvassers not to certify the election or raised a protest? It doesn't even change the outcome.

As I look at the SOS website it gives reasons for the hash marks. It seems that this provides the ability to ensure that they actually touched each ballot and made a mark immediately, for each ballot they recorded, without transference from some other document or keeping the number stored in their heads.

It's like counting your sheep as they go through the gates. You can have a piece of paper where you make a mark for each sheep as it goes through. Or you can just keep counting in your head. Which produces the most reliable number? Which can be audited?

That being said, why can't they just recount all the write-ins, unless they also suspect some fraud? Or maybe they don't have the authority to do that, hence they kicked it over to the State.

Duggan's statement blames "my opponents" which I think he is using to mean "people who opposed my candidacy" and not "Benny Napoleon".

Actually, just re-read it, and he talks about "dirty tricks", but does not say who he thinks is responsible for these tricks. He does say that the County Clerk told the Board to disqualify the votes.

As for why the Board didn't just recount them, or do anything other than punt the issue over to the State, I read in one article that they weren't sure what to do because they just got oversight in June. Basically a "we're new so we're gonna pass because we don't even know where to start" situation.

[Gistok]

Sigh.... "hash marks".... the new "dimpled chads".....

[Locke09]

This is what the SOS website says the poll book should look like:

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/so...l_418482_7.pdf

So there should be tally marks, with the total at the end. Apparently some of these books only had the totals.

[Ray1936]

A totally dysfunctional city.

[jcole]

Why all the changes in the totals? Fox 2 has learned it's about the use of "hash-marks." The 20,000 votes that did not use a method known as "hash-marking" or votes that are counted individually on poll books, are not being counted. The votes in question were tallied using numbers instead of hash marks.
Enter the state of Michigan.
Fox 2's Alexis Wiley has learned that the Wayne Co Board of Canvassers has voted NOT to certify the election. They are sending the votes to the State of Michigan for certification.

Read more: http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/23...#ixzz2cYY5Hmg0

[downtownguy]

It is sooooooooooooooooooooo easy to throw Winfrey under the bus on this. First, let me say, I'm not defending her. Instead, I would prefer to see how this plays out before assigning blame.

With the meager resources we allocate to the democratic process, what level of excellence do you expect? I recall Winfrey fighting Bing against cutbacks to the election commission in the latest budget. As I recall, they were pretty steep. In my book, that's plus one for Winfrey. Even in the best of times, the poll workers were suspect. Again, what do you expect? They work for one day, are trained on a meager government budget, and don't get a second chance to improve.

Once more, it's sooooooooooooooooooo easy to blame city government for everything that goes wrong, but with what appears to be an obviously large discrepancy between intended votes for each candidate, why not just note the error in process, and acknowledge that if using a clear mind and voters' intent, Duggan likely got most of those arabic numeral votes too? Instead they kicked it up to the State, which is a safe move. And I expect the state will come to the same conclusion. To me, if anybody's a wuss here, it's the County Board of Canvassers for not showing leadership, but instead passing the buck.

[Scottathew]

Instead of disenfranchising a large number of voters, why don't they just re-count?

[Baselinepunk]

Just remember, per the Tea Baggers and Wes da 'mooch: You did this to yourselves.