Major League Soccer

[Spartan]

You have a homegrown, fourth-tier league soccer culture based on a team that is incredibly egalitarian and community-supported.

Make it corporate, bump up ticket prices, and make it less "trendy", and the game totally changes. That's the concern people have, I think.

A lot of people are afraid of that, but that's more the supporters. There seems to be a contingent out there that thinks Detroit doesn't have the ability to support a large endeavor like this. There is a strong soccer culture building around Detroit, and DCFC is only one part of that. Plus, if this were to be approved, there would be a solid 2-3 years minimum to drum up excitement for the team. If we wait 2-3 years to "establish" things, it may be too late.

[gnome]

What are you trying to say gnome? Are you saying that the best players won't come to the MLS because the stadiums aren't big enough? Well it's obvious that many international venues are bigger than most MLS stadiums and that the fan bases can be more passionate. So what. The MLS is not so self-absorbed to think that it will supplant the Premier League, La Liga and Serie A anytime in the foreseeable future. The best players aren't coming here in their prime. But nobody expects that.

But if the MLS is to progress, it must play most of its games in soccer specific venues of a size where the clubs have the ability to fill them to capacity. [[And by the way, world-class soccer doesn't always just occur in vast venues like Old Trafford and Wembley. Most of the clubs in the three leagues mentioned above play in 30K - 50K stadiums.) The success of MLS is not and will not be measured by whether its games generate the interest and competitive excellence of the El Clasico rivalry of Barcelona and Real Madrid.

A skilled ownership bid for Detroit should be able to satisfy MLS requirements that will certainly include a new stadium. Capacity will only have to be in the 25K range, just like it has been for the last ten or so MLS expansion clubs [[with the exception of Seattle). A competitive team here should be able to generate attendance at such a venue to make the venture profitable [[enough).

do I really need to say the exact same thing over and over again? Ok, how about this, schedule a game at Wayne State's football field and sell it out. I will buy 10 tickets myself. If you and the futballers can do that, I will change my opinion and support any and all attempts to put a soccer stadium on the site of Ficano's failed jail.

until you can sell out the approximately 5,000 seat WSU stadium, your plan is a pipe dream not worthy of serious consideration.

ii look forward to eating my words, my hat and all the humble pie within the 138 square miles of my favorite city.

[Downriviera]

I've been bummed out for years that we don't already have an MLS team. I've been to matches in Chicago and Columbus, they're awesome. I'll be going to the USA vs Mexico World Cup Qualifier in Columbus next month. We could have had it here if we had a proper MLS stadium. I'm convinced with our melting pot of cultures we can support a team. I went to some Express games at the Silverdome and attended a World Cup match their in 94. I would buy season tickets in a heartbeat and I know a lot of other people that would too.

[emu steve]

One thing we haven't discussed about a 'back of the Fox' is that the project would no longer be an Ilitch thing and IF the holdout property sellers not wanting to sell to Ilitch, they would have another opportunity to sell to different folks acquiring the land.

[emu steve]

Here is an article from today's Wash. Post on the MLS stadium in Chester, Pa. That stadium has been mentioned in other threads.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...751_story.html

Compare what D.C. wants to do and what Philly did:

D.C. wants to build a stadium about 4 or 5 blocks from Nationals Park in an area where D.C. would like to see develop.

Philly built a stadium out in Chester, Pa, which is not near anything, I believe.

The Chester stadium hasn't done much for the area, but I could have told them that.

A soccer stadium should be part of a stadium/entertainment district not free standing.

Detroit could learn some lessons here. And yes, the Silverdome, if it sat say 20K wouldn't meet my definition of 'stadium/entertainment district'.

[Cliffy]

The question remains though who is going to be able to afford a MLS soccer stadium. Building one is going to be in the ballpark of $100 mil. Illitch is worried about his new arena so he won't partake in this. Maybe Dan Gilbert. Remember, the MLS is a pretty established league. They aren't going to allow a trial run at Wayne state or some other half ass stadium. They want a new soccer only stadium built before you play a game.

[Zug]

I honestly don't know much about Chester, PA. But I remember looking up about it after it was mentioned the first time. Chester is a mostly-Black [[75%-ish), formerly industrial city [[auto & ship building) that's lost half of it's population since the 1960s [[sound familiar?). It is relatively small [[~30,000 residents).

Anyway, the stadium was supposed to be the centerpiece of a multi-million dollar riverfront redevelopment project. Apparently, it doesn't sound like it's been all that successful. I just mention this because it's been described by some on here as a stand-alone project. It wasn't...it's just apparently a failed or slow-developing more-than-just-soccer project.

[Newdetroit]

I actually think soccer has a better chance in Detroit than in some other places. Detroit has a huge Middle Eastern population as well as a decent Eastern European community along with the growing Hispanic population in Southwest. These three groups are huge soccer fans. When there is a FIFA game, cafes in Dearborn are jammed packed throughout the early morning with people watching.

[Spartan]

The question remains though who is going to be able to afford a MLS soccer stadium. Building one is going to be in the ballpark of $100 mil. Illitch is worried about his new arena so he won't partake in this. Maybe Dan Gilbert. Remember, the MLS is a pretty established league. They aren't going to allow a trial run at Wayne state or some other half ass stadium. They want a new soccer only stadium built before you play a game.

There is already a documented proposal from an owner, that is not the issue that is blocking MLS to Detroit.

[rb336]

I actually think soccer has a better chance in Detroit than in some other places. Detroit has a huge Middle Eastern population as well as a decent Eastern European community along with the growing Hispanic population in Southwest. These three groups are huge soccer fans. When there is a FIFA game, cafes in Dearborn are jammed packed throughout the early morning with people watching.

That is very true, and a good point. I worked at a place with a bunch of Europeans and NOTHING got done during the world cup

[Hypestyles]

when will there be a big family multi-sports-center in Detroit proper? soccer, hockey, lacrosse, etc.

[Cliffy]

There is already a documented proposal from an owner, that is not the issue that is blocking MLS to Detroit.

Yes, but that proposal comes from a deadbeat landlord. I'm talking about a real owner.

[Spartan]

Yes, but that proposal comes from a deadbeat landlord. I'm talking about a real owner.

He's a deadbeat owner of other properties, but he's a soccer guy first and a landlord second. He bought the Silverdome to bring MLS here, not because he wanted the building. The full $1B proposal is probably a bit pie-in-the-sky, but the guy wants to bring the team here. If Detroit gets an MLS team any time in the next 2 years or so, I'd bet with about 90% certainly that Apostopolous [[sp?) is the owner.

[rb336]

I think Detroit will get an MLS team sooner rather than later, and I am betting on a 25K seat stadium. While I don't care for the Silverdome as a site, I really liked the idea for its renovation.

[Zug]

I just hope the MLS continues to gain legitimacy as a league. I think it will be a long time [[if ever) before MLS is a top tier league. Young American athletes typically prefer to go into other sports [[football, basketball, baseball, hockey)...and it will be tough to be financially competitive for the top tier players when soccer is the #1 sport in the wealthiest countries in Europe. And they're willing to pay for them.

With all that said...I know MLS is really hyping itself up, but Detroit should be careful when trying to lure the MLS. Most Americans will look at it as the #5 league with barely a mention in the news...and the immigrant communities will still be bigger fans of teams an ocean away [[and look at MLS as a glorified minor league). To me, MLS isn't quite deserving of having such a large chunk of downtown. Maybe in a couple decades, when a local team would inevitably be clamoring for a new stadium...but not just yet. So stick them outside of downtown or in Pontiac.

[emu steve]

That is very true, and a good point. I worked at a place with a bunch of Europeans and NOTHING got done during the world cup

I think folks need to take the 'long view' on soccer.

Sure to most of the world, including the Pope, soccer is thee sport.

What folks sometimes miss is that soccer is a very popular sport in high school. American high schools. This is when kids develop their interests, including participant and spectator sports.

I can go across the street from my local high school and see a public soccer field which is very heavily used.

I have never believed that one can foretell the future by looking in the rear view mirror.

Need to see what the 14 - 18 year olds are doing. They will be the sports fans of the 2020's and the next half century.

[Zug]

Soccer is popular among kids/teens because almost anyone can play [[maybe not very well, though, lol) and it's affordable for parents. I don't think it's because of some grassroots interest in the game...or an interest in actually watching soccer [[TV or paying to attend). I don't have any stats, but just from an eyeball test, I highly doubt high school soccer crowds are bigger than those for football or basketball. Kids love to ride bikes, play volleyball, and run track...but I don't think very many watch it on TV or want to see it in person.

Granted, this could all change relatively quickly. Pro sports in general became a serious industry in itself only within the last 100 years. So who knows how things will develop into the future.

[Spartan]

I just hope the MLS continues to gain legitimacy as a league. I think it will be a long time [[if ever) before MLS is a top tier league. Young American athletes typically prefer to go into other sports [[football, basketball, baseball, hockey)...and it will be tough to be financially competitive for the top tier players when soccer is the #1 sport in the wealthiest countries in Europe. And they're willing to pay for them.

One factor that you're probably underestimating is the hometown nature. As MLS continues to grow, American athletes will start going to Europe less and less. If we can retain most of the home-grown talent here and pull in the second tier from Europe, MLS will be a strong league. Support is key too. Soccer fans love their EPL teams, but they don't have the connection like they would with a team from their area. As support continues to grow, you also end up with more money to lure the best as well. Look at the recent transfer of Clint Dempsey for what we could see in the future.

With all that said...I know MLS is really hyping itself up, but Detroit should be careful when trying to lure the MLS. Most Americans will look at it as the #5 league with barely a mention in the news...and the immigrant communities will still be bigger fans of teams an ocean away [[and look at MLS as a glorified minor league). To me, MLS isn't quite deserving of having such a large chunk of downtown. Maybe in a couple decades, when a local team would inevitably be clamoring for a new stadium...but not just yet. So stick them outside of downtown or in Pontiac.

Detroit is a sports town. Yes, it will be the "5th sport" around here, but it still will receive plenty of attention. The Pistons sure get plenty of attention as the "4th team" despite the other three. If an MLS team were to become wildly successful, they'd certainly get plenty of attention. If they are terrible then it could be an issue.

I agree that immigrant population probably will not make up a large part of the fan-base, but there is a large sports fan base and soccer-specific population in the area. The 5th team in a city like Detroit would still get more attention than, say, a 2nd team in Orlando. Additionally, even though MLS is another major sport, it's not really an apples/apples comparison with the other leagues. Other sports don't have the "supporters" culture like soccer does. People watch football, baseball, etc because of the sport. Soccer also draws people just to be part of the action more than the other sports do.

When it comes to location, a team in Pontiac would fail. Building a new attraction requires a lot of "casual support." People will come downtown for a game because of the environment. Soccer brings a bar/tailgate crowd much like our version of football does. Pontiac wouldn't provide that, and it would cheapen the experience quite a bit. Remember too, that if a team were approved in the near future, we'd still be looking at 2016+ most likely. I think a 2018 opening would be perfect, to coincide with the World Cup.

[Zug]

You make some very good points. I don't prefer Pontiac...but I still have some reservations about putting them right downtown [[if Detroit could even get a team, obv). Especially when it would be on land that Gilbert wants to build an actual urban development. It's not like it's empty land that no one else wants...or land ready-made for a stadium. My preference would actually be the Tiger Stadium site.

[Spartan]

You make some very good points. I don't prefer Pontiac...but I still have some reservations about putting them right downtown [[if Detroit could even get a team, obv). Especially when it would be on land that Gilbert wants to build an actual urban development. It's not like it's empty land that no one else wants...or land ready-made for a stadium. My preference would actually be the Tiger Stadium site.

Tiger Stadium site would be another good area for it. I'd love to see a collaboration between Apostopolous and Gilbert in the Fail Jail location [[basically, an MLS stadium, plus whatever Gilbert wants to do with the rest). I don't trust Triple Properties to actually follow through with the off-shoot development past the stadium itself. I do think it would be a good spot for the stadium [[share parking/bars with other stadiums, right on the edge of downtown, could spur some additional development down Gratiot), but the development around it would be much more important.

[TTime]

http://espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/15...report?cc=5901 Earlier this month, a source with MLS told ESPN FC that Miami was still lagging behind Orlando and Atlanta in its bid to acquire an expansion franchise on the grounds that it lacked a suitable stadium. The Mail, though, reports that Florida International University’s stadium is the team’s most likely home.