Why doesn't ANYBODY mention the elephants in the room? Crime & illiteracy

[Honky Tonk]

I saw Archie Bunker for the first time a few years ago on TVLand I think. Thats who you remind me of..
lol

Believe me Jesus Christ was running DPS it would be fine, the state is doing a crappy job just like the Board was... just admit it...cmon..you know you want to!
lol

You mean "crappy" like the the State's predecessors did? What happened to attendence and all the graduating rocket scientists there, Hello Kittie?

[48205to24]

You mean "crappy" like the the State's predecessors did? What happened to attendence and all the graduating rocket scientists there, Hello Kittie?

Of course you arent going to say anything bad about the state and the people it puts in charge. for the pass 10+ years.

You hate those little DPS childen, they are hopeless, useless and you wish they would all just go away. Be honest.

On another note, what school do you know is consistently graduating rocket scientists?

[sumas]

Sadly Honky Tonk, we do know our elephants. It called really bad home environment. As neighborhoods, churches, organizations and caring citizens our efforts doesn't mitigate that these kids live in sometimes horrible environments.

Which horror story do the trolls on the thread want. We know our kids and do what we can as a community.

How about the kids living in a drug using/ selling household, or maybe the kids who have an uncle that abuses them, or the mother that has serious mental issues and the child doesn't figure into her equation. The kids who use food stamps/Bridge whose sole nutrition is going to the gas station to buy junk food. Kids who live in houses with no utilities.

I could go on but why feed trolls.

[sumas]

Forgot to mention the above situations are all within a few blocks of me. As a community we have addressed some but not all of these issues. We are not super heroes.

I hate to share dirty laundry about my neighborhood but kids can't thrive if their environment is vile. Outside the home people/schools can only have varied degrees of effect.

[Honky Tonk]

Of course you arent going to say anything bad about the state and the people it puts in charge. for the pass 10+ years.

You hate those little DPS childen, they are hopeless, useless and you wish they would all just go away. Be honest.

On another note, what school do you know is consistently graduating rocket scientists?

What schools do you know, have a consistent 50-70% drop out rate, and have spent an inordinate amount money in the last 40, years fighting illiteracy, and barely making a dent in the effort? What other City? What other area? What other part of the country, doughnut boy?

[48205to24]

Sadly Honky Tonk, we do know our elephants. It called really bad home environment. As neighborhoods, churches, organizations and caring citizens our efforts doesn't mitigate that these kids live in sometimes horrible environments.

Which horror story do the trolls on the thread want. We know our kids and do what we can as a community.

How about the kids living in a drug using/ selling household, or maybe the kids who have an uncle that abuses them, or the mother that has serious mental issues and the child doesn't figure into her equation. The kids who use food stamps/Bridge whose sole nutrition is going to the gas station to buy junk food. Kids who live in houses with no utilities.

I could go on but why feed trolls.

I am not a troll, and these happen in communities outside Detroit. My question was if the state has already taken the schools over because of bad management and it is still failing what more do you want the citizens to do besides put their kids in other schools. If you can hold the board accountable we can hold the state accountable.

I do not believe these kids are so lost that Jesus Christ couldnt save them either. To me thats a troll...

[firstandten]

Sadly Honky Tonk, we do know our elephants. It called really bad home environment. As neighborhoods, churches, organizations and caring citizens our efforts doesn't mitigate that these kids live in sometimes horrible environments.

Which horror story do the trolls on the thread want. We know our kids and do what we can as a community.

How about the kids living in a drug using/ selling household, or maybe the kids who have an uncle that abuses them, or the mother that has serious mental issues and the child doesn't figure into her equation. The kids who use food stamps/Bridge whose sole nutrition is going to the gas station to buy junk food. Kids who live in houses with no utilities.

I could go on but why feed trolls.

That's why I've always felt that any new schools build in the city should have the word Boarding behind it

[48205to24]

What schools do you know, have a consistent 50-70% drop out rate, and have spent an inordinate amount money in the last 40, years fighting illiteracy, and barely making a dent in the effort? What other City? What other area? What other part of the country, doughnut boy?

The state is running the school is anyone holding the state accountable?
If you want to say its the fault of Detroiters, that fine. But the state isnt doing any better than they were doing.

[48205to24]

Forgot to mention the above situations are all within a few blocks of me. As a community we have addressed some but not all of these issues. We are not super heroes.

I hate to share dirty laundry about my neighborhood but kids can't thrive if their environment is vile. Outside the home people/schools can only have varied degrees of effect.

Doesnt matter those things happen in poor communities not just Detroit. The city needs to tackle unemployment and poverty to resolve many of these issues.

[Honky Tonk]

Doesnt matter those things happen in poor communities not just Detroit. The city needs to tackle unemployment and poverty to resolve many of these issues.

Yes, yes, EVERYTHING is the gummint's fault, and they're responsible for us all! Let me end our discussion by posting this little adage, "If it's to be, it's up to me".

[sumas]

Doesnt matter those things happen in poor communities not just Detroit. The city needs to tackle unemployment and poverty to resolve many of these issues.

not to be evil but I have lived in rich communities too. Plenty of bad parents there too. Should I give examples.

[48205to24]

Yes, yes, EVERYTHING is the gummint's fault, and they're responsible for us all! Let me end our discussion by posting this little adage, "If it's to be, it's up to me".

If the gummint is going to get involved it and take something over it should do a good or better job then the previous entity.

[sumas]

That's why I've always felt that any new schools build in the city should have the word Boarding behind it

Interesting comment. Foster care doesn't work well. Boarding ???? Doubt that would work, people who control kids lean to abuse too. Sad!

[48205to24]

not to be evil but I have lived in rich communities too. Plenty of bad parents there too. Should I give examples.

Yes, but the kids have utilities and they have good schools. A rich kid probably doesnt fall into poverty due to poor parenting, but a poor kid can continue the cycle due to poor parenting.

The education in this state is lacking in general, Detroit is just hit the hardest because it is the poorest community. Maybe they will dissolve DPS as well, who knows.
I know in the state its in now, my kids wont be going to a DPS when they are old enough. Unless its one of the top schools.
Its sad that you have to manipulate and strategize to get your kids in a good school as soon as they are born.

We can all go back and forth on this, the bad parents, culture of poverty, ineffective government. It all boils down to parents with the resources to get their kids in a good school and parents stuck with the neighborhood schools. Kids who take the initiative to learn no matter what situation whether its a bad home environment or schools full or bad teachers and too many kids in the class. Kids who dont feel like anyone cares about them so they dont care about others. Debating, doesnt help the kids that fall through the cracks.

The state and its cohorts can play games with building new schools, starting charters, universal pre-kindergarten, and other bells and whistles. Until things such as reduced class sizes, attracting and retaining good teachers/ administrators, start occuring. Then even kids coming from good homes will have a hard time learning.

[mwilbert]

Interesting comment. Foster care doesn't work well. Boarding ???? Doubt that would work, people who control kids lean to abuse too. Sad!

Boarding school can work [[check out the SEED foundation), but unless people are willing to spend a lot more money it is too expensive to be used routinely.

[firstandten]

Interesting comment. Foster care doesn't work well. Boarding ???? Doubt that would work, people who control kids lean to abuse too. Sad!

I believe that is the best hope for kids learning. They must get out of the toxic environment they are in. Six hours a day is not going to cut it. Of course people abuse kids even professionals, but as least there would be trained professionals certified by the state. Its either that or dealing with the bad parenting and bad neighborhoods

[48205to24]

http://detroit.curbed.com/archives/2...ed-schools.php

At this rate, in a few years only the top 10 or DPS and charter schools will be left anyway. Looks like all parents are scrambling to send their kids elsewhere-even the bad ones.

[sumas]

http://detroit.curbed.com/archives/2...ed-schools.php

At this rate, in a few years only the top 10 or DPS and charter schools will be left anyway. Looks like all parents are scrambling to send their kids elsewhere-even the bad ones.

That is true and sad. One thing not addressed on this thread is many kids go to grandma's down south winters for their safety/schools. They do a horrible job too.

Not my last comment, but neglected rich kids go to re hab. It is just as sad.

[Wesley Mouch]

Doesnt matter those things happen in poor communities not just Detroit. The city needs to tackle unemployment and poverty to resolve many of these issues.

Stop it. Its not local governments job to tackle unemployment and poverty. They have no tools to do so. How do you 'tackle' unemployment anyway. Its not football.

Our problem is that we want local government to accomplish these grand ideas. Then we're surprised when they do that, and forget to actually run a city. Stop it.

[mwilbert]

Stop it. Its not local governments job to tackle unemployment and poverty. They have no tools to do so.

This is correct, at least cities can't tackle those problems directly. The city should strive to make itself a good place to do things, provide reasonable public safety and infrastructure, education and maybe youth programs, intelligent zoning and permitting rules. It is possible that in some cities that are already more attractive to business [[not Detroit) you could have some more targeted economic policies like San Francisco's relatively high minimum wage. But that's about it. Cities don't have the economic levers to deal with big economic problems.

[48205to24]

Stop it. Its not local governments job to tackle unemployment and poverty. They have no tools to do so. How do you 'tackle' unemployment anyway. Its not football.

Our problem is that we want local government to accomplish these grand ideas. Then we're surprised when they do that, and forget to actually run a city. Stop it.

Local governments havent accomplished anything, neither has the state government.

If the state is going to take over the school system, then it should do a better job than those before it. The school system is still lacking resources, cant retain good teachers and or even keep the schools open. Until they do that, even good students with good parents will not get the education all kids deserve.

Not to worry, DPS will no longer exist and former DPS kids will continue to be coming to a school near you. In fact there will be many more of them.

[Wesley Mouch]

Local governments havent accomplished anything, neither has the state government.

If the state is going to take over the school system, then it should do a better job than those before it. The school system is still lacking resources, cant retain good teachers and or even keep the schools open. Until they do that, even good students with good parents will not get the education all kids deserve.

Not to worry, DPS will no longer exist and former DPS kids will continue to be coming to a school near you. In fact there will be many more of them.

No, the State shouldn't do a better job. They should do a barely adequate job. It should be just barely good enough, so citizens are motivated to improve their own local school boards so they don't have to deal with the State.

The State schools should have no programs except the very basic. They should do basic education. You want better? Athletics, Debate, Child Care. Then go and make your local school great.

In the best world, the State 'district' will have zero students. Because every local district is doing a great job. Maybe the state schools can have no janitorial service. Students have to mop up the place themselves and clean the bathrooms. And parents are forced to mow the lawns and paint the rooms. Do that and you'll have a formula for great local schools.

[48205to24]

No, the State shouldn't do a better job. They should do a barely adequate job. It should be just barely good enough, so citizens are motivated to improve their own local school boards so they don't have to deal with the State.

This is probably the logic the state and the emergency manager running the system. Its easier to send your child to a better school than fight with EM's and administration for quality education. The citizens are motivated.... to send their children elsewhere. Those that cant right now, will do so as soon as they have the resources [[transportation, false address, etc) to do so.
Like I said, there will be very few schools left in DPS and many of the charters will fail as well.
Hey, but that may be the plan.

[Wesley Mouch]

This is probably the logic the state and the emergency manager running the system. Its easier to send your child to a better school than fight with EM's and administration for quality education. The citizens are motivated.... to send their children elsewhere. Those that cant right now, will do so as soon as they have the resources [[transportation, false address, etc) to do so.
Like I said, there will be very few schools left in DPS and many of the charters will fail as well.
Hey, but that may be the plan.

I'm just glad that parents today are starting to have options. The local monopolies were well intended -- and if done right can be the most effect way to educate our children. But they also have proven that they can become corrupt, inefficient, and bureaucratic in too many cases.

Remember always that education of children is all that matters. How. By whom. Unionized or not. Certified or not. Public, private, charter, ad hoc. Classroom or internet. Deluxe [[with band and football) or basic. Nothing but results matter. And while there are idiot parents -- overall they remain the best judges of results.

[48205to24]

I'm just glad that parents today are starting to have options."

The point is Detroiters dont have options, just like most large urban districts they lack the basic resources [[good teachers, books, small class sizes) on top of all the other issues going on in the cities. This is why taxes are paid- dont say Detroiters dont pay their fair share of taxes, if lottery money was distributed based on where it came from, Detroit would get the lionshare of it.

Remember always that education of children is all that matters. How. By whom. Unionized or not. Certified or not. Public, private, charter, ad hoc. Classroom or internet. Deluxe [[with band and football) or basic. Nothing but results matter. And while there are idiot parents -- overall they remain the best judges of results.

Of course education is all that matters, but it the system is not educating them they should be called out. After 10 years of state control, the state is responsible. They either put the resources together for a better system or stop trying to lie...uh use million dollar marketing strategies to say their failing system will work.

If the U.S wants to remain a superpower it needs to ensure all kids are educated. I know the free public school system was one of reasons people came here, because you could come from nothing and be something. No longer the case.

Its not just poor black kids in the cities either, its poor white kids in rural areas and working class areas as well.

So do you have a list of good school these parents can pick from? Because I dont see many.