Goldman Sachs Hoarding 1.5M Tons Of Aluminum In 27 Detroit Area Warehouses

**Honky Tonk** · July-27-13, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by JBMcB

The scheme is adding roughly $0.03 per pound on to the cost of aluminum. Assuming a price of around $0.80 per pound, it's costing you an extra $1.80.

I can see why you are so outraged over this. They are stealing the cost of a sausage egg mcmuffin and a small coffee right out of your mouth!

A snausage here, a megamuffin there, it all adds up. My guess though, after it hits my level of consumerism, it'll total to a few Royale with Cheese.

**Richard** · July-27-13, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by JBMcB

The scheme is adding roughly $0.03 per pound on to the cost of aluminum. Assuming a price of around $0.80 per pound, it's costing you an extra $1.80.

I can see why you are so outraged over this. They are stealing the cost of a sausage egg mcmuffin and a small coffee right out of your mouth!

Now think of millions of sausage egg McMuffin and a small coffee across the country as it has an impact on every bodies bottom line.

Lose the sale of millions then you have to either raise prices or cut costs by eliminating employees.

**Hermod** · July-27-13, 03:15 PM

While everybody is in a poutrage here over the eeeeeeevullllllllllllll Goldman Sachs.

1. London metals Exchange handles the sale, transfer, and delivery of the metal.

2. Goldman Sachs does not own the metal, they just run the storage facilities and collect rent on the metal stored inside. They are not trading in the metal.

3. The price of aluminum is near a ten-year low with massive oversupply.

**beachboy** · July-27-13, 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by Hermod

While everybody is in a poutrage here over the eeeeeeevullllllllllllll Goldman Sachs.

1. London metals Exchange handles the sale, transfer, and delivery of the metal.
2. Goldman Sachs does not own the metal, they just run the storage facilities and collect rent on the metal stored inside. They are not trading in the metal.
3. The price of aluminum is near a ten-year low with massive oversupply.

I apologize for my confusion regarding this issue. Perhaps
some DYers can set me straight...

Wasn't there a thread recently about industrial coke being
stored in heaps on the Detroit riverfront? Isn't that a kind
of hoarding? How does one distinguish "hoarding" from a
sort of "saving"?

Perhaps a few people are just being wise, stockpiling ingots
of aluminium for the future when it will be needed. For ex-
ample, if Ford's will be using more of that metal in trucks,
as a previous post alleged, then wouldn't it make sense to
have a goodly supply on hand?

Finally, if one examines industrial metal price trends over
the past year, a sharp decline can be seen. This has been
said to be a harbinger of significant deflation. If that hap-
pens, what will be the point of storing a commodity asset
such as industrial metal [[iron, copper, aluminium, etc.)?

**Richard** · July-28-13, 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by beachboy

Perhaps a few people are just being wise, stockpiling ingots of aluminium for the future when it will be needed. For ex-ample, if Ford's will be using more of that metal in trucks, as a previous post alleged, then wouldn't it make sense to have a goodly supply on hand?

Alleged might be a bit harsh,

http://blogs.wsj.com/drivers-seat/20...aluminum-body/

They and others soon in order to comply with EPA will have to lighten the total weight to comply.

May not as a whole body as of yet but they are retooling for the hoods and such to be aluminum.

They will not stockpile for that because everybody switched to on demand and added costs get passed down or trickled down.Thats why when there was a tsunami over seas plants here were idled or production curbed.

Yes the price of aluminum is down,but that is how it works,stockpile what you need then drive the prices down to eliminate competition then jack the price up because you can.

It goes a bit deeper here.

http://uk.reuters.com/assets/print?a...96L0I120130722

The good US news is found in out of country news.

**Jimaz** · July-28-13, 09:06 AM

I must have missed the "wisdom" of daily shuttling nearly 3,000 tons of metal from one warehouse to another for no practical reason. I also missed the "folly" of just-in-time inventory.

Silly me. LOL!

**Hermod** · July-28-13, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by Jimaz

I must have missed the "wisdom" of daily shuttling nearly 3,000 tons of metal from one warehouse to another for no practical reason. I also missed the "folly" of just-in-time inventory.

Back when the auto companies were run by "car guys", they all owned huge warehouses in which to store components received from their suppliers. The suppliers were paid based on the delivery date to the warehouse. The auto companies wanted to be "sure" of their supplies and wanted to protect themselves against a strike at the supplier's plant or by teamsters. The biggest sin a buyer at the big three could commit was having the line shut down due to unavailability of a part.

As the MBA's took over, they said that this tied up too much capital and that so long as there was a steady delivery from the supplier the idea of "just in time" made more sense. Essentially, this transferred the problem to the suppliers who now had to store the components at their plant so that they wouldn't default on the delivery.

**oladub** · July-28-13, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by Jimaz

I must have missed the "wisdom" of daily shuttling nearly 3,000 tons of metal from one warehouse to another for no practical reason. I also missed the "folly" of just-in-time inventory.

Silly me. LOL!

It isn't sillier than a lot of other hoops government make individuals and businesses jump through. Your problem is with a silly law. If the aluminum had just been left in the ground as bauxite, no one would be required to dig it up, process it, and then shuttle it around town. The advantage of having the aluminum in a warehouse is that it is immediately available should there be a war, a huge order for planes at Boeing, or other immediate need.

If all this aluminum was dumped on the market, prices would temporarily go down, China would buy some of it to put in its warehouses, bauxite mines would shut down instead of producing aluminum at a loss, and we would be buying aluminum back from the Chinese until the closed bauxite mines were back up to speed. Just-in-time inventory doesn't work so well if mines have to be reopened.

There is also no reason to believe that the storage costs could be passed on to consumers because the stored aluminum is in a fungible price competition with newly mined bauxite that isn't subject to storage costs.

The Fort Knox Treasury Department hoard of gold is hardly different than the stored aluminum. It doesn't back the dollar anymore. Still. it's nice to have for a rainy day, for instance, if federal reserve notes lost their value.

**Chinman** · July-28-13, 11:28 AM

i am currently working on the transformer's 4 movie and we rigged and are now starting to de-rig the dickerson boat yard just south of zug island. this is where the boblo boats are stored. we are storing our lighting gear in a steel barn that is 200' x 100'. it is filled with aluminum castings the size a a sedan. about 500 castings are stored there. the price for each is about $600.00 based on weight. this means on average it is holding $300,000 worth of aluminum. seems cheaper to store it at that price than to sell based on market value.
also...across the canal is the large piles of petroleum coke from mobile refinery and salt piles and coal piles. these are used by industries to fire us steel and other uses to company's that pave roads and many other uses.

**Hermod** · July-28-13, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by Chinman

i am currently working on the transformer's 4 movie and we rigged and are now starting to de-rig the dickerson boat yard just south of zug island. this is where the boblo boats are stored. we are storing our lighting gear in a steel barn that is 200' x 100'. it is filled with aluminum castings the size a a sedan. about 500 castings are stored there. the price for each is about $600.00 based on weight. this means on average it is holding $300,000 worth of aluminum. seems cheaper to store it at that price than to sell based on market value.
also...across the canal is the large piles of petroleum coke from mobile refinery and salt piles and coal piles. these are used by industries to fire us steel and other uses to company's that pave roads and many other uses.

What it says is that Detroit warehouse and storage space are cheap as hell to rent.

**beachboy** · July-28-13, 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by Richard

Alleged might be a bit harsh, ...

My apologies, I should have used "suggested" instead.

Thank you for the explanation and for the URLs. This
makes the situation a bit easier to understand

**Jimaz** · July-30-13, 03:52 PM

Cenk always makes this stuff fun:

How Goldman Sachs Robbed You Of Five Billion Dollars

"The U.S. Department of Justice has started a preliminary probe into the metals warehousing industry following complaints that storage firms owned by Wall Street banks and major traders have inflated prices, sources familiar with the matter said."*

Wall Street can rob you indirectly too-- how are Goldman Sachs and other big banks artificially manipulating the aluminum market and other commodities to make consumers needlessly pay more for everyday items, netting them billions of excess dollars? Cenk Uygur breaks down the disturbing findings.

*Read more from Reuters: Exclusive: DOJ starts probe into Wall St. metals warehousing - sources