Wayne State and their never ending tuition increases

[bailey]

Obviously the med school chatter is hear-say, or it would be all over the news.

Bham picked "70 kids" out of thin air, in an attempt to make Ann Arbor seem pedestrian. I posted verifiable statistics, that show what kind of school Andover truly is. Even with Andover’s propensity to contain many UM legacies, 30% of any class, of any year being accepted is complete bs.

I don't get your disbelief over 70 kids getting into a state university from a good in-state highschool. I went to GP South about the same time as he went to andover. Allegedly South was sending more kids to UM than any other school [[ i don't know if it's true now or was then...but it was repeated often). In a class of 350-400 ish I wouldn't be surprised if it was at least a third of the class [[it certainly seemed like it). IIRC the next most went to MSU, then Miami, then Ivys, then all over the place.

Also, IRCC, the entrance requirements for MSU today are higher than UM then. Either kids have gotten INSANELY smart, or grades are ridiculously inflated to make everyone think they are more exclusive and smart.

Edited : Bham...yes, I meant "got into".

[Bham1982]

I don't get your disbelief over 70 kids going to a state college from a good in state highschool.

Also, I didn't say that 70 kids went to U-M; I said that 70 were accepted. I remember they posted both the acceptances and the matriculation.

I think around 45 or so attended U-M [[plenty of accepted kids went to the Ivies or out-of-state schools, and a few went to MSU or in-state private schools like Kalamazoo or Albion).

[noise]

There is no such thing as a "public ivy". There are many, many schools that have been referred to as such; that doesn't mean they have equivalent standards.

You can start a philosophical debate about what "is" is, but it is a term that is used to describe certain schools. Whether or not you like it doesn't make it any more or less relevant.

[Bham1982]

You can start a philosophical debate about what "is" is, but it is a term that is used to describe certain schools. Whether or not you like it doesn't make it any more or less relevant.

It is a term used to describe basically every good public school in the U.S., from the Northeast to California. All the good U-Cs in Cali use this term, as do all the good SUNYs in NY, and places like UNC, UVA, Texas, Florida, Wisconsin, Washington, etc.

So if you're saying the term means "excellent public school" rather than "public equivalent of Ivy League", then I totally agree.

[noise]

So you hate competition. Especially competition that is doing a FAR better job at graduating their students than you. Got it. I have zero ties to Grand Rapids or Grand Valley and no political affiliation with any republicans, but I see nothing wrong with them bolstering an anchor university near GR. WSU had a pretty massive head start on GVSU and its undergrad program is in the toilet. Accountability seems to be lacking in the halls of WSU.

Is GVSU an urban school with a mission that involves accepting DPS students?

[bailey]

You can start a philosophical debate about what "is" is, but it is a term that is used to describe certain schools. Whether or not you like it doesn't make it any more or less relevant.

I agree it's used... I think it was coined by someone trying to sell college guides. I would also say it's been defined so far down as to be meaningless. I believe most of the Big Ten [[including MSU...THE HORROR) is now on the list.

[noise]

It is a term used to describe basically every good public school in the U.S., from the Northeast to California. All the good U-Cs in Cali use this term, as do all the good SUNYs in NY, and places like UNC, UVA, Texas, Florida, Wisconsin, Washington, etc.

So if you're saying the term means "excellent public school" rather than "public equivalent of Ivy League", then I totally agree.

It's a term that was coined by Moll in '85 and specifically mentioned UofM, actually.

[noise]

I agree it's used... I think it was coined by someone trying to sell college guides. I would also say it's been defined so far down as to be meaningless. I believe most of the Big Ten [[including MSU...THE HORROR) is now on the list.

I agree with this 100%. That does nothing to make the case that UofM has a big head and isn't one of the best publics in the US.

[edit] There's actually a decent Wiki on this for more info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Ivy

[48009]

No, Andover published the acceptances, by school, following graduation. They published both acceptances and matriculation.

And stop projecting your own issues. No one claimed that Ann Arbor was "pedestrian", whether there are 7 kids or 700 kids from one high school. There are tons of kids from Stuyevsant [[a public high school in NYC) at Harvard, it doesn't mean Harvard is "pedestrian".


No, your own stats show it's completely realistic. U-M accepts students with 28 or higher [[and many lower if they're minorities, legacies, or athletes), so if a school's average is 24, it's obviously quite realistic that one-third of students could gain admission to a school requiring around 28.

And for the rest of your post, your trashing of Wayne, you're projecting your own issues again. Good luck with that.

You said "something like 70" and now it's definite because you know you read it in a newsletter [[or something similar). OK. And now you're downplaying why you even brought it up in the first place, to bolster your "...it wasn't considered some incredible accomplishment."

There is no doubt in my mind publics like Andover, Lahser, Seaholm and the Pointes get more into Michigan than any other public school in Michigan. But 30% of a public high school class [[outside of International Acad), seems quite lofty, especially in light of the current numbers I see from the school.

[Bham1982]

It's a term that was coined by Moll in '85 and specifically mentioned UofM, actually.

The term "Public Ivy" specifically refers to dozens of schools, including U-M. It includes representation from practically every populous state.

[noise]

The term "Public Ivy" specifically refers to dozens of schools, including U-M. It includes representation from practically every populous state.

There were originally 8 [[including UofM), but whatever fits your narrative.

[48009]

I agree with this 100%. That does nothing to make the case that UofM has a big head and isn't one of the best publics in the US.

[edit] There's actually a decent Wiki on this for more info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Ivy

Berkeley, UCLA and Ann Arbor are in a league of their own, i.e., tier 1, when it comes to public colleges in America. Calling them public Ivies is silly and lame [[to me), but there's no questioning their prestige and value.

[48009]

Just for fun, here are the acceptance rates for 2013, for a number of top-ranked schools-

Stanford- 5.7%
Harvard- 5.8%
Yale- 6.7%
Columbia- 6.8%
Princeton- 7.3%

In contrast, U-M has an acceptance rate of 40%, with roughly 30% acceptance rate for out-of-state. And I would bet that U-M's applicant pool is somewhat less accomplished.

I would say that's an enormous difference in terms of selectivity relative to the highest ranked instructions in the country. There are easily 50 schools accepting less than 25% of their students, and a dozen or so with single-digit acceptance rates.

Comparing tiny Ivies to a public university with 28k undergrads, really? What did you major in at State?

[noise]

Can we all agree that certain words don't exist simply because we don't like them and UofM is not a good school?

[Bham1982]

There were originally 8 [[including UofM), but whatever fits your narrative.

Again, there is no such thing as an official count of Public Ivies. There aren't 8 Public Ivies, and there never were 8 Public Ivies.

Feel free to make up your own list, though. It's as good as any others.

[Bham1982]

Can we all agree that certain words don't exist simply because we don't like them and UofM is not a good school?

As long as you agree that you have no reading comprehension, since neither claim was even hinted at, by anyone.

[Bham1982]

Comparing tiny Ivies to a public university with 28k undergrads, really? What did you major in at State?

Ding! We have a winner!

That was my original point. U-M doesn't have comparable selectivity as the most prestigious U.S. institutions. Glad we have that sorted out.

Not sure what relative size has to do with it, though. There are plenty of big Ivy League schools, and plenty of schools as big as U-M, but with lower admissions rates than U-M.

Compare U-M to UCLA, NYU, UC-Berkley, Texas, etc. These schools are all as big [[or bigger) and yet have much lower admission rates.

[noise]

As long as you agree that you have no reading comprehension, since neither claim was even hinted at, by anyone.

I was joking. That said, the irony of your response wasn't lost on me. Thanks.

[noise]

Again, there is no such thing as an official count of Public Ivies. There aren't 8 Public Ivies, and there never were 8 Public Ivies.

Feel free to make up your own list, though. It's as good as any others.

Nice job throwing the word "official" in there. Again, Moll coined the term and "officially" included 8 Universities.

[48009]

Cliff notes of pages 2-4: Wayne State rips off thousands of students and Michigan-AA isn't as selective as an Ivy, but is the best public school from New York to Nevada.

[noise]

Students are not responsible for their own success?

[Bham1982]

Cliif notes of pages 2-4: Wayne State rips off thousands of students and Michigan-AA isn't as selective as an Ivy, but is the best public school from New York to Nevada.

U-M is definitely the best public school in Michigan, and arguably/probably the best public school in the Midwest.

I guess I would agree it could possibly be the best "from NY to Nevada" if you mean from like Buffalo to Vegas, and ignoring Texas. That's an unusual way of looking at things, though, because the best universities tend to be on the East and West Coasts.

[drjeff]

For what it's worth, not even all of the 8 real ivies are even close to being equal.

[48009]

U-M is definitely the best public school in Michigan, and arguably/probably the best public school in the Midwest.

I guess I would agree it could possibly be the best "from NY to Nevada" if you mean from like Buffalo to Vegas, and ignoring Texas. That's an unusual way of looking at things, though, because the best universities tend to be on the East and West Coasts.

Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan > the rest

Did you lose a promotion to a Wolverine?

[noise]

While I'm certainly as guilty as anyone of taking this thread on a ridiculous tangent, I'm sure we all know a school being "better" than the other doesn't affect what a student does with their education at either. There are UofM grads doing nothing worthwhile and there are WSU grads doing incredible things.