Gary Brown to resign from council to become Orr's 2nd.

[SWMAP]

I prefer that Orr continue to put residents before bondholders and pensioners.

i'm happy that an EM is inplace, but I just can't want to come in ahead of pensioners.

I read that most City pensioners get less than $1000 per month. Now they will have to give up average of $150 and pay for their health care.

What will retired police and firefighters do - they did not pay into Social Security because not allowed to.

They never made big salaries and now will suffer mightily.


I like services, too, but I do not think residents [[who after all are just passing through in a manner of speaking) should come ahead of pensioners who don't have a way to now make money in their senior years.

See the story about Peter Holden below. He will get Medicare and so will have something, but his small pension cut by 20% so I can have “services??”
From the Free Press:
If you had to nominate a candidate to serve as the face of a possible City of Detroit bankruptcy, that person might be Peter Holden.
Now 87, Holden, a native of the city, worked as a young man in the auto plants but switched to a City of Detroit job to avoid the layoffs in autos. He became a service worker in the city’s public housing department, helping to keep the heat on and the water flowing in public housing for 38 years.
Now long retired, Holden cares for his elderly wife, Olivette, who, like him, is not in the best of health. They live in the same home they’ve owned for more than 40 years, with Peter serving as a block captain for his street in northwest Detroit, near Tireman and Joy.
“I’ve always been a law-abiding citizen, paid my taxes on time, trying to keep my neighborhood together as best I can,” Holden, his voice slowed by age, said last week. “We’re just totally dependent on health insurance and our pension.” Without that pension paid by the City of Detroit for his decades of service, “I simply don’t know where I would go.”

[Eber Brock Ward]

SWMAP, the pensions are funded somewhere between 70-95%.

That means, even if there is no successful negotiation by their elected pension chairs, and they take exactly what Orr offered, then that person making $1000 per month would be cut to $700-$950 per month.

I'll bet you that most city residents would take 70-95% of the quality of services that we used to get in a heartbeat. Crocodile tears for the pensioners ring hollow for me when residents have had it a lot worse than the pensioners' worst case scenario for a long time.

[motz]

I guess you missed how Orr's actions so far have managed to send the City's bond rating to the lowest possible rating. Some may say that was inevitable but so far, Orr's actions have been doing harm, not helping, the city.

Oh, and the city not having any money to pay their bills would've HELPED their bond rating? Oh, and bankruptcy would've done the exact same too, yes? Evil Lansing trying to take OUR GEM of a second-to-lowest-possible bond rating, how dare they!!

[Novine]

"This isn't a bad thing. I prefer that Orr continue to put residents before bondholders and pensioners."

Trotting out this foolish line again? Wrecking the city's bond ratings costs the city now and for years going forward. That's not a "win" for residents no matter how you try to spin it.

[Eber Brock Ward]

"This isn't a bad thing. I prefer that Orr continue to put residents before bondholders and pensioners."

Trotting out this foolish line again? Wrecking the city's bond ratings costs the city now and for years going forward. That's not a "win" for residents no matter how you try to spin it.

Capital markets would not lend to the city on a GO basis [[absent a state or other backstop) anyway, given how bad things are, so the ratings drop means nothing, all things considered.

With that as a premise, I would, again, prefer that Orr continue to put residents before bondholders and pensioners. The bondholders for obvious reasons, pensioners for the reasons I stated above.

[Wesley Mouch]

I prefer that Orr continue to put residents before bondholders and pensioners.

i'm happy that an EM is inplace, but I just can't want to come in ahead of pensioners.

I read that most City pensioners get less than $1000 per month. Now they will have to give up average of $150 and pay for their health care.

What will retired police and firefighters do - they did not pay into Social Security because not allowed to.

They never made big salaries and now will suffer mightily.


I like services, too, but I do not think residents [[who after all are just passing through in a manner of speaking) should come ahead of pensioners who don't have a way to now make money in their senior years.

See the story about Peter Holden below. He will get Medicare and so will have something, but his small pension cut by 20% so I can have “services??”
From the Free Press:
If you had to nominate a candidate to serve as the face of a possible City of Detroit bankruptcy, that person might be Peter Holden.
Now 87, Holden, a native of the city, worked as a young man in the auto plants but switched to a City of Detroit job to avoid the layoffs in autos. He became a service worker in the city’s public housing department, helping to keep the heat on and the water flowing in public housing for 38 years.
Now long retired, Holden cares for his elderly wife, Olivette, who, like him, is not in the best of health. They live in the same home they’ve owned for more than 40 years, with Peter serving as a block captain for his street in northwest Detroit, near Tireman and Joy.
“I’ve always been a law-abiding citizen, paid my taxes on time, trying to keep my neighborhood together as best I can,” Holden, his voice slowed by age, said last week. “We’re just totally dependent on health insurance and our pension.” Without that pension paid by the City of Detroit for his decades of service, “I simply don’t know where I would go.”

It is indeed a sad story -- but reality has to be dealt with. What is being debated by us, Orr, Snyder, and in due time most municipalities is the best balance between cuts and tax increases.

There will be many opinions and many sad stories. Doesn't matter who created the mess now. Its a real mess. We all want pensioners to come out of this whole. Or do we? Is it OK to take some money from someone making $150 a year in pension while on a consulting contract with Wayne County and give it to people like this who are 'struggling'? I think so. Those are the hard questions.

[Danny]

Gary Brown, giving up his city council seat to become Orr's puppeteer! Now that's part of the end of black control of Detroit city government.

[313WX]

SWMAP, the pensions are funded somewhere between 70-95%.

That means, even if there is no successful negotiation by their elected pension chairs, and they take exactly what Orr offered, then that person making $1000 per month would be cut to $700-$950 per month.

I'll bet you that most city residents would take 70-95% of the quality of services that we used to get in a heartbeat. Crocodile tears for the pensioners ring hollow for me when residents have had it a lot worse than the pensioners' worst case scenario for a long time.

Very well stated.

[Novine]

"Is it OK to take some money from someone making $150 a year in pension while on a consulting contract with Wayne County and give it to people like this who are 'struggling'?"

As if this example has any more connection to reality as holding up Mitt Romney as an example of an "unemployed" American worker.

[313WX]

John Bennett went in hard on Gary Brown [[And he's 100% correct on all points) and of course, Darrell Dawsey's response was excellent as always...

http://www.detroituncovered.com/

http://www.deadlinedetroit.com/artic...g#.UczDuU_D-1t

[firstandten]

Saw a interview with Mr. Orr and he was asked why he chose Mr. Brown. Mr. Orr said a lot of things but one of the first things he said was Mr. Brown was a whistleblower. Mr. Orr has shown that he is not about the doing the same things hoping for a different result. That attitude I think is why he overruled the Mayor choice of police chief and hired the guy he wanted. Mr. Orr knows he is working on two fronts, one getting the city finances together and two just getting the city to work period. I don't think he had the confidence in Mr. Bing to take care of that end.. to much status quo. The money he is getting rid of with the three council people and their staffs leaving is more than enough to take care of Mr. Browns salary.

[Honky Tonk]

The money he is getting rid of with the three council people and their staffs leaving is more than enough to take care of Mr. Browns salary.

Not only that, but he actually shows up, works, and isn't on sick leave.

[Locke09]

Not only that, but he actually shows up, works, and isn't on sick leave.

Neither this nor what firstandten said is the point. He's a whistleblower and he shows up to work. That's worth $225,000? Neither is a good enough reason to hire Brown and they are especially poor reasons to triple his salary.

I say this because I know first hand how many city employees and even some consultants have literally begged city officials not to waste money over the years [[in lean years and in good years). They have argued for getting rid of ineffective systems, ineffective contracts, ineffective practices. They have tried to show where certain objectives could be achieved at less cost. They have complained that any penny wasted is a penny too much, because contrary to popular belief, workers, even government workers often understand that their fate is tied to that of their organization. Not everyone understands it, but enough do and they have been ignored.

Now here comes Orr, and he continues the same politics. Same politics, just different people in charge. Gary Brown has no reorganization skills and no operational skills except for at the DPD divisional level. There is no legitimate reason for this choice. It reeks of a payoff plain and simple.

At some point integrity asks us whether we really believe something is "right" or are we just willing to justify anything that promotes the side we have taken.

[firstandten]

Granted Locke09 Gary Brown may not have the reorganization skills, but who does within Detroit city government ? My perception of his job will be to do the day-to-day running of the city ,probably to enforce systems that Mr. Orr and his consultants have already put in place. Maybe that's why the fact that Brown was a whistleblower was impressive to Orr in the first place. Brown will make sure the department heads and other managers carry out the will of Orr.

[313WX]

Neither this nor what firstandten said is the point. He's a whistleblower and he shows up to work. That's worth $225,000? Neither is a good enough reason to hire Brown and they are especially poor reasons to triple his salary.

I say this because I know first hand how many city employees and even some consultants have literally begged city officials not to waste money over the years [[in lean years and in good years). They have argued for getting rid of ineffective systems, ineffective contracts, ineffective practices. They have tried to show where certain objectives could be achieved at less cost. They have complained that any penny wasted is a penny too much, because contrary to popular belief, workers, even government workers often understand that their fate is tied to that of their organization. Not everyone understands it, but enough do and they have been ignored.

Now here comes Orr, and he continues the same politics. Same politics, just different people in charge. Gary Brown has no reorganization skills and no operational skills except for at the DPD divisional level. There is no legitimate reason for this choice. It reeks of a payoff plain and simple.

At some point integrity asks us whether we really believe something is "right" or are we just willing to justify anything that promotes the side we have taken.

To be fair, I don't doubt that Snyder personally pulled the strings to have this position created for Brown [[thus Orr had nothing to do with it), to thank Brown for doing his bidding.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Granted Locke09 Gary Brown may not have the reorganization skills, but who does within Detroit city government ? My perception of his job will be to do the day-to-day running of the city ,probably to enforce systems that Mr. Orr and his consultants have already put in place. Maybe that's why the fact that Brown was a whistleblower was impressive to Orr in the first place. Brown will make sure the department heads and other managers carry out the will of Orr.

So is that worth $225,000 per year? I think not. I don't think it takes special skills to get people to do their jobs.

[firstandten]

So is that worth $225,000 per year? I think not. I don't think it takes special skills to get people to do their jobs.

I do have a problem with the amount of salary as well. I guess the length of time of the engagement is the justification for the high salary. Once Orr leaves Brown will most likely be out of a job probably for good so the salary had to be high enough to make it worth his while. As far as people doing their jobs, it shouldn't take special skills for getting people to do their jobs. Wait, maybe for Detroit it does since we have a lot of folks not doing their jobs.

[downtownguy]

Granted Locke09 Gary Brown may not have the reorganization skills, but who does within Detroit city government ?

I'm not a city employee, but I find your generalization that there isn't another employee within city government qualified for the job to be offensive to the many hard working employees caught up in this mess.

I do have a problem with the amount of salary as well. I guess the length of time of the engagement is the justification for the high salary. Once Orr leaves Brown will most likely be out of a job probably for good so the salary had to be high enough to make it worth his while.

Yeah, you wouldn't want him to have to dip into his $8.4 million settlement from the city to buy his peanut butter.

[firstandten]

I'm not a city employee, but I find your generalization that there isn't another employee within city government qualified for the job to be offensive to the many hard working employees caught up in this mess.

The claim was made that Gary Brown didn't have the specialized skill set to do the job Orr hired him for. My statement was pretty much if he doesn't have the skill set then who does within city government, not that nobody has it, which is what you read into my statement . Maybe nobody has that skill set within city government which in that case Gary Brown is as good of choice as anyone else.

Yeah, you wouldn't want him to have to dip into his $8.4 million settlement from the city to buy his peanut butter.

Gary Browns settlement should have nothing to do with his job prospects. Mr. Brown went thru some difficult times socially and financially during the 5 years or so he was in limbo with his law suit. He didn't necessarily know at the time that at the end of the journey he would win big. For all he knew back then KK could still be in office and he would've been left out in the cold.