Plans unveiled for $650M Red Wings arena, entertainment district in Detroit

[401don]

...aaaaand here comes the demolition talk already:
http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20131213/NEWS/131219910/state-would-demolish-joe-louis-under-plan-for-new-hockey-arena
...state-funded, of course.

Exactly why teams want no part of arena/stadium ownership. Line up now for your 300 dollar seats from the Joe. Urinals may not have that special something the Tiger Stadium ones had though. Wonder how much the scrap metal will contribute to the demo cost?

[Gistok]

I am heartened to see former Preservation Wayne [[now Preservation Detroit) Executive Director, Francis Grunow [[who quit his position there to go back to school for a law degree)... he is representing the interests of the remaining folks [[mostly of lesser means) who remain in Midtown, and trying to get answers to questions affecting them.

Since Francis is a preservationist at heart, I imagine that when he goes to the public meetings, he will also be asking the tough questions about the Eddystone and Army Harbor Lights buildings [[at 13 stories, the Louis Kampter designed buildings are on the National Register of Historic Places).

Francis also is involved in vacant property issues.... an Ilitch specialty!
http://nsgdetroit.com/staff/francis-grunow/

Francis, who is a great guy, is also is a DYES poster....

[Cincinnati_Kid]

A bankrupt city seeks donations to build a new hockey stadium. We all know where the money is coming from, the taxpayers who already are strapped for cash. What a brilliant idea !!

[casscorridor]

I'm sure "Demolition" Jackson counts that as "new development".

Yeah those buildings are going to be demolished, unfortunately. It's really too bad, because they are great structures that should be renovated. But Illitch is a scheming man who only cares about building his arena and parking and nothing else. Almost any and all other promises he makes are broken, such as the failed marketplace agora.

[mikeg19]

A bankrupt city seeks donations to build a new hockey stadium. We all know where the money is coming from, the taxpayers who already are strapped for cash. What a brilliant idea !!

Cincinnati Kid, please don't think I'm picking on you, you were just the most recent person to post this

If I'm understanding this correctly, absolutely NO GENERAL FUND tax dollars are being used for this project. People screaming "Use the money for more cops, use it for better street lights, use it for new firefighting equipment" are not comprehending where the money is coming from and the limits it can be used for. Money that is allocated from the DDA is strictly used for "TA DA" development. So if this money wasn't used on this project, it would be used on something else. Granted, a lot of people will say "Mike Illitch is a billionaire, he can afford it, let the DDA's money go to someone who actually needs it." And truth be told, I agree with that sentiment. But if the DDA is gonna give him the money, and he is required in the language of the agreement to invest $200 million of privately financed capital into downtown, can I really be pissed about this? No, not really.

So please don't make this into the Detroit is bankrupt and can't afford this project scenario when that is completely false.

[mikeg19]

Yeah those buildings are going to be demolished, unfortunately. It's really too bad, because they are great structures that should be renovated. But Illitch is a scheming man who only cares about building his arena and parking and nothing else. Almost any and all other promises he makes are broken, such as the failed marketplace agora.

I really don't understand why those two buildings can't be incorporated into the complex. If the bones are good, why waste them? I guess once we see the actual site plan and designs we can see what the overall vision is, but it just is awkward that those two structures can't in someway be brought to life.

[Gistok]

I absolutely agree with you mikeg19... Because they are on the National Register of Historic Places, just the reverse happens if they are razed... the Feds take away a lot of tax credits, including the 20% credit for redevelopment. The Feds don't want people to be rewarded for bringing down historic properties... so in essence they are penalizing people for doing so by removing some additional tax incentives.

If Ilitch does want to tear down these 2 structures [[so much for that "urban feel, urban density" shtick they are promoting!), then someone should ask the very awkward question at the City Council meeting... "Why do you want local DDA tax dollars, while at the same time you are snubbing federax tax credit dollars?"

Hmmmm... maybe it's time to ask someone from the National Trust to attend the City Council meeting...

I know that former Preservation Wayne [[now Preservation Detroit) Executive Director Francis Grunow will likely be there at the City Council meeting [[representing Midtown interests). He's an expert on historic tax credits... I'm sure he'll be more than happy to share his expertise on how bringing down those 2 historic hotels will adversely affect the available tax credits that could be used for that part of the arena development.

[BankruptcyGuy]

Folks, a TIF is funded through tax increments. That is, the amount given to the developer is the difference between the taxes paid now and the taxes paid on the completed development. There is no money "taken" from a local government [[unless there are grants, which I didn't see). The developer funds the TIF through taxes it pays. When the TIF expires, the city benefits from the new tax base. It's done everywhere.

[detourdetroit]

There is a letter that was delivered to City Council on Thursday which lists a number of Community Requests leading into the Council's vote on December 20th. Please attend, it is at 9 a.m. The document can be found here - https://www.facebook.com/CorridorsAlliance

In terms of the preservation piece, these were the requests, developed with the help of Preservation Detroit...

Historic Preservation

Within the proposed catalyst district are several National Register of Historic Places properties and districts, including the Cass Park, Park Avenue, Grand Circus Park, and Brush Park Historic Districts, as well as the Detroit Masonic Temple, the Hotel Eddystone, 2643 Park Avenue [[the Park Avenue Hotel / Harbor Lights Center), and the Women's City Club.

The following will protect these important places, maintain the historical character that contributes to Detroit's sense of identity, honors our past, and benefits the community at large:

● A survey on the feasibility of rehabilitation / adaptive reuse of structures within the Catalyst Development Area.

● Section 106 review of developments within the Catalyst Development Area that make use of public funding.

● 5 percent of public funding for developments within the Catalyst Development Area will be used for rehabilitation / adaptive reuse projects.

● 30 percent of vacant square footage within the Catalyst Development District will be preserved through rehabilitation / adaptive reuse projects.

● Protection for National Register of Historic Places properties -- no demolitions of any historically designated property within the Catalyst Development Area.

● Appointment of a historic preservation commission for the Catalyst Development Area:
○ Commission members will be residents or business owners within the larger Impact Area.
○ Commission members will work with the DDA on recommendations for design standards, confer on rehabilitation projects, assist with research, and serve as a resource to the DDA for understanding and preserving the culture, history and character of the area.

[Gistok]

Wow, thanks DetourDetroit... sounds like the neighborhood of the new arena district wants to engage the arena folks and make sure that everyone who is impacted here comes away for the greater common good.

One would certainly hope that with the Ilitch's and the DEGC using public funds for this endeavor... that they engage the public in the process... "for the greater good"....

[Bobl]

The City is broken and down. Employees, losing their pensions. DIA about to be raided by vultures. People can't heat their homes. No money.
Wait, did I say no money?
Several hundred million dollars for a billionaire to build a sports stadium.
Never mind. I must have been misinformed.

[Gistok]

No Bobl... you're not misinformed... but I take your comments to be a "no" to the question of whether you read mikeg19s Post #380 in this thread.

[Bobl]

G: I did read it, and there is a certain logic to it, but I am suggesting that the big picture is the steady, accelerating redistribution of wealth from working middle class people to the most wealthy and privileged folks.

[Novine]

"When the TIF expires, the city benefits from the new tax base. It's done everywhere."

Since 1978, the DDA has captured this growth to finance activities in the DDA district. Those captured dollars have been used to benefit property owners in the district while taxpayers citywide have to make up the difference or go without. The DDA has over $150 million in outstanding bond payments backed by TIF revenues which means that it will be decades before there can even be consideration of the TIF capture going away. Seeing how the TIF dollars have been used to enrich the Ilitches of the world at the expense of the rest of the city, I expect the TIF capture to still be around for Ilitches grandchildren.

[401don]

Considering the financial situation of the city, any way you look at it this is one sweetheart deal for the Wings with virtually no public opposition compared to what I've seen elsewhere in recent years. The Wings contribute a paltry 11 million a year. Meanwhile their revenues are skyrocketing with new local tv revenue, the new 5 billion dollar Canadian rights deal, a salary cap. Not to mention they get all of the revenue from the new rink including parkng, plus naming rights [[should be worth another 40 or so million.) Meanwhile the other 200 million in development will simply be promises that materialize if and when they strike deals with other partners. It's still probably a net gain for the city but I would have thought a republican governor might have negotiated a better deal for both the state and city.

[mikeg19]

Considering the financial situation of the city, any way you look at it this is one sweetheart deal for the Wings with virtually no public opposition compared to what I've seen elsewhere in recent years. The Wings contribute a paltry 11 million a year. Meanwhile their revenues are skyrocketing with new local tv revenue, the new 5 billion dollar Canadian rights deal, a salary cap. Not to mention they get all of the revenue from the new rink including parkng, plus naming rights [[should be worth another 40 or so million.) Meanwhile the other 200 million in development will simply be promises that materialize if and when they strike deals with other partners. It's still probably a net gain for the city but I would have thought a republican governor might have negotiated a better deal for both the state and city.

Don, while I certainly agree that the Wings are getting a sweetheart deal, how much leverage does the city really have to negotiate with? Illitch can build an arena anywhere in the suburbs if he really wanted to and he'd probably get a sweetheart deal there as well. I don't know if he'd pull that card or act upon it if it came down to it, but keeping the Wings downtown is a pretty bid deal for a lot of businesses, and the ancillary business the new stadium will provide from other events happening there.

And from what I read [[and have interpreted) from the agreement, is that the $200M private investment is required for this to be signed off on. Not a promise. And yes, obviously they don't have all of this redevelopment setup and ready to go, but it shouldn't take 5-10 years to see it all come to fruition. Believe me, I'm as skeptical as most of you when it comes to Illitch and promises.

[jaytheory]

being outside the expanded DDA "downtown" district, what say does brush Park have in any of this.

There is a letter that was delivered to City Council on Thursday which lists a number of Community Requests leading into the Council's vote on December 20th. Please attend, it is at 9 a.m. The document can be found here - https://www.facebook.com/CorridorsAlliance

In terms of the preservation piece, these were the requests, developed with the help of Preservation Detroit...

Historic Preservation

Within the proposed catalyst district are several National Register of Historic Places properties and districts, including the Cass Park, Park Avenue, Grand Circus Park, and Brush Park Historic Districts, as well as the Detroit Masonic Temple, the Hotel Eddystone, 2643 Park Avenue [[the Park Avenue Hotel / Harbor Lights Center), and the Women's City Club.

The following will protect these important places, maintain the historical character that contributes to Detroit's sense of identity, honors our past, and benefits the community at large:

● A survey on the feasibility of rehabilitation / adaptive reuse of structures within the Catalyst Development Area.

● Section 106 review of developments within the Catalyst Development Area that make use of public funding.

● 5 percent of public funding for developments within the Catalyst Development Area will be used for rehabilitation / adaptive reuse projects.

● 30 percent of vacant square footage within the Catalyst Development District will be preserved through rehabilitation / adaptive reuse projects.

● Protection for National Register of Historic Places properties -- no demolitions of any historically designated property within the Catalyst Development Area.

● Appointment of a historic preservation commission for the Catalyst Development Area:
○ Commission members will be residents or business owners within the larger Impact Area.
○ Commission members will work with the DDA on recommendations for design standards, confer on rehabilitation projects, assist with research, and serve as a resource to the DDA for understanding and preserving the culture, history and character of the area.

[Novine]

I remember the nonsense years ago about how the Tigers were going to move to the suburbs. There were even rumors that they were scouting a stadium location in Novi. Of course, it was all a bunch of garbage.

Why would Ilitch go to the suburbs? He would have to pay top dollar for land and few, if any, of the suburbs have the fiscal capacity to float the hundreds of millions of dollars that Ilitch would want for a new arena. As the Palace has demonstrated, there's very little economic spin-off from an arena. If you look around that area of Auburn Hills, no one can make an argument that the Palace has generated any significant economic activity in the surrounding area. That's not a surprise. The Palace doesn't want you spending your money outside the arena. The same will be true with Ilitch. The arena "district" will be structured to maximize profits for Ilitch with very little benefit to the surrounding properties. As for the $200 million in development - if it doesn't happen, then what?

[rb336]

This is going up next to Barclays Center in Brooklyn. What would you think of something similar at the new arena?

http://gothamist.com/2013/12/06/modu...36548#photo-10

[emu steve]

20+ days without an article on the proposed new arena or development at the site?

Well the drought is over...

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...text|FRONTPAGE

I assume there is some info to like for all in this. Correct?

This sounds a lot more than simply a new arena and a few new buildings and more parking. It sounds expansive and integrative, i.e., integrating existing things like the Masonic Temple, the park, etc. etc. into the redevelopment motif.

[emu steve]

I don't like this sentence:

“The atmosphere right now is crazy; the limit hasn’t been set yet on price,” said Robert Slattery, president of Midtown Development Group.

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz2qYfknsms

I have no professional knowledge of development, etc. but it seems to me the biggest IMPEDIMENT to development is speculation driving land prices too high.

When prices get TOO high then it drives prices for commercial and residential building to a level which are not sustainable to the economics of the area.

[Mackinaw]

At this time, where should public input regarding the components of the "arena district" go? Are there any meetings planned? Should comments go to the DEGC, or straight to Olympia or both [[for whatever it's worth)?

I found this: http://www.ilitchholdings.com/ContactUs.aspx

…and sent in a message regarding the idea of a community ice rink, which I mentioned a couple months ago on this thread. If you think it's worthwhile, perhaps you could also submit a message concerning my proposal.

Dear Mr. Illitch and Company:


I write to propose what I believe is a must-have component for Olympia's proposed "Arena District" in Detroit: one or more attached community ice rinks for local youth teams to practice and play on. An example of this is downtown Newark, New Jersey, alongside its Prudential Center arena; the facility doubles as the NJ Devils' Practice Facility. Basically, my proposal is that Olympia/Red Wings build something like City Ice area on E. Lafayette, except right next door to the Wings' new home and decked out with the Wings' logo on the ice, banners in the rafters, and plenty of bleachers for friends and family.


The Newark facility I mentioned is always busy with one travel or high-school team practicing after the next, or one game after the next, on most evenings and weekends. It's been a terrific way to bring consistent life into a forlorned, over-demolished urban renewal district. Remember, the Red Wings only have 41 regularly scheduled games in Detroit per year. To live up to its promise of creating a downtown entertainment district, Olympia/Red Wings should, among other things, build one or more community rinks, ensuring constant activity in the district.


Building a facility that will provide a special experience for the kids that get to play under the same roof as the big-leaguers would be in keeping with the fact that Detroit is "Hockeytown." With this region's special interest in hockey, this facility will be all the more treasured, I believe. Ice-time will be highly coveted, and there will be constant activity in and around the new arena district even when the Wings are off. The facility could connect to some sort of new Wings'/hockey museum or common space that I am sure Olympia has already imagined as part of its arena development. This would really help local kids connect with the sport. The rink could be a perfect space for the Red Wings to host clinics for local kids, particularly the underprivileged who may be interested in hockey. Lastly, a community ice rink could provide some steady business to retailers and restauranteurs that open up near the new arena as part of your "arena district."


Considering that the "arena district" is receiving public funds and is being built after a long process of land assembly which has stifled development along Woodward, Olympia/Red Wings really owe a great development to the people of the City and the State. I hope that Olympia/Red Wings will live up to their promise of building a "District" in the City of Detroit, and not just an arena and parking garages.


Here is a link regarding the cited example in Newark, New Jersey [[which, I note, has a named corporate sponsor). http://www.ahpavilion.com/index.php


I appreciate your consideration of this proposal.

[SpartanDawg]

At this time, where should public input regarding the components of the "arena district" go? Are there any meetings planned? Should comments go to the DEGC, or straight to Olympia or both [[for whatever it's worth)?

https://www.facebook.com/CorridorsAlliance

[Hypestyles]

I wish the DEGC could be permanently dissolved.

[SpartanDawg]

Land transfer approved... let's see if renderings come out soon... please god no sea of surface parking lots....