Duggan Ends Candidacy for Mayor - Will NOT Appeal To Supreme Court

[Wesley Mouch]

Ever see a 59 year old cop try to chase a teenage on foot? Or a 59 year old fire fighter climb a 32 foot ladder? There is a reason for the early outs, it's to get and keep relatively young people. Don't want to pay taxes for this? Move to the boonies and get a volunteer PD/FD and let me know how it works out for you when a 60 year old can't drag a 4" hose to the hydrant while your house burns.

There are other productive things a policeman or firefighter can do at age 59. It is not necessary to burden taxpayers with pension costs for who can contribute to society.* I agree, leave the hard work to the cubs. And at 59, contribute your wisdom and experience.

*Yes, this is a burden to society. Its clear that these pensions are burdens to taxpayer. Otherwise we wouldn't be having EFM chats now, would we. I don't hear unions saying "hey, just leave us alone and our pension funds can pay for our retirees". Why not? Because these plans aren't fully funded. That means the union wants someone to FUND the plan.

I'm 100% behind paying a great pension [[defined benefit) to retirees at age 67. And 100% against paying any public pension before that to anyone who isn't disabled.

[ct_alum]

There are other productive things a policeman or firefighter can do at age 59. It is not necessary to burden taxpayers with pension costs for who can contribute to society.* I agree, leave the hard work to the cubs. And at 59, contribute your wisdom and experience.

*Yes, this is a burden to society. Its clear that these pensions are burdens to taxpayer. Otherwise we wouldn't be having EFM chats now, would we. I don't hear unions saying "hey, just leave us alone and our pension funds can pay for our retirees". Why not? Because these plans aren't fully funded. That means the union wants someone to FUND the plan.

I'm 100% behind paying a great pension [[defined benefit) to retirees at age 67. And 100% against paying any public pension before that to anyone who isn't disabled.

And where, pray tell do they "contribute their experience"? You obviously haven't heard the drum beat in DPD to get people from behind desks and into the street.
Just admit that you're a union hater and jealous of people who put in their time, i.e. risked their life on a daily basis for relatively low pay to protect your sorry a** and now expect the CoD to hold up their end of the bargain. I bet you're o.k. with the fact that Wall Street never took even a trim let alone a haircut after the great collapse that they caused. Made 100% whole, weren't they?

[Wesley Mouch]

And where, pray tell do they "contribute their experience"? You obviously haven't heard the drum beat in DPD to get people from behind desks and into the street.
Just admit that you're a union hater and jealous of people who put in their time, i.e. risked their life on a daily basis for relatively low pay to protect your sorry a** and now expect the CoD to hold up their end of the bargain. I bet you're o.k. with the fact that Wall Street never took even a trim let alone a haircut after the great collapse that they caused. Made 100% whole, weren't they?

Data analysis. Phone calls. Vehicle maintenance. Detective work. Community relations. Sitting outside the Manoogian 24/7. Traffic stops. Guarding facilities. Private security job/consulting. And that's before you leave the police department. There are dozens of other city jobs in permits, administration, property tax collection. 99% of the time, police work isnt' busting down door.

Is anyone who criticizes unions a 'union hater'? If so, then I accept. We should all strive for the best. Unions today don't represent the best way to deal with the relationship between employee and employer in most cases.

[mam2009]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...47883778,d.aWc

Some light reading [[88 pages)...Barrow's original Wayne County Circuit filing. Still looking for Popke's opinion...

[Cliffy]

Come on Wesley, 67 for a pension is ridiculous. All of us peasants have to work until death so the elites can fuck us over and hoard all the money. Let people have some dignity in life and be able to walk off the job with an income and able to enjoy while they can still be mobile. Your retirement is basically from the workplace to the grave. We can afford the pensions and health care but our country decides to spend trillions in Iraq and Afghanistan instead of spending it here.

On this ridiculous notion that we don't need unions LOL. Look where we are heading. $8 hour and no benefits jobs aplenty. Give it another 10-15 years and Unions will be popular again. This is just a ridiculous phase where the elites have brainwashed the masses into thinking unions are bad and $8 hour jobs with no benefits are awesome.

[Lt. Dan Bassett]

There are "great leaders" and "good leaders" and Mike Duggan is neither. A "great leader" is able to change people's minds and hearts by the power of their words and action. Think Martin Luther King, Mother Theresa or Abraham Lincoln and you get the definition of "great" leadership. Good leaders are able to motivate others to exceed the expectations and provide inspiration. Think of Lee Iacocca or Bill Gates. Duggan, on the other hand, is nothing more than an old-fashioned political hack and fixer. The only thing that separates him from the rest of the intellectual midgets running for mayor is his race. Detroit needs great leaders not morons.

no need to go so far afield for a great leader to emulate. "change [[of) people's minds and hearts by the power of their words and action" comes from our very own Hazen S. Pingree [[4-term mayor of Detroit and 1-term guv of MI) . He's back. And he's pissed at what we've done here. That inscription on his staute in GC Park needs to be re-read by everyone with a dog in this fight. Where are our better angels?

[mam2009]

mam2009,

I think you're losing sight of the issue. No one is arguing Detroit's residency requirement is too long...

It "sounds" like YOU'VE been saying its 2 weeks too long. You keep using phrases like, "Duggan filed TOO EARLY" and "absurd result" and trying to write words into the Charter that aren't there. No, the Charter Commission did not write a provision that resulted in an "absurd result". They wrote a provision that resulted in the "forseeable consequence" that should naturally follow when a person does not meet the requirements as set forth.

I haven't lost sight of the issue at all. The Charter Commission didn't write, "by the filing deadline", "by the time s/he is elected", or "by the time s/he takes office", they wrote "at the time of filing". The latter is the longer of those options. So, I would hope an appellate court who believes the wording is ambiguous, would take the longer duration to be the drafters' intent. Rather than losing sight of the issue, I am merely offering what I see as a compromise position for those who find the wording "ambiguous" or "poorly written".

"Ambiguous" or "poorly written" should not automatically equate to Duggan getting on the ballot. The judicial clarification of the ambiguity should settle the writers' actual intent, which I would argue is the longest reasonable one year duration prior to being considered for the position [[commonly called "candidacy"). One's candidacy is defined by one filing a fee or an affidavit or accepting a contribution, etc. according to state campaign finance law.

As stated previously, I don't believe intent even needs to be evaluated since the provision is clear regarding the deadline. I think the wording is only ambiguous if you are inclined to try to stretch, massage and contort it to favor the ONLY mayoral candidate who didn't follow the rules by meeting the MINIMUM requirement. But if intent must be evaluated, go with the longer duration for minimum residency & minimum voter registration for a mayoral hopeful.

Candidates fail to meet requirements in numerous elections in this city and state ALL THE TIME, but we should not move the goal posts for them by manipulating simple, plain, everyday, common, modern English language written on a page, into something it is not just because a well-known mayoral hopeful [[and his staff) didn't "read good" [[a la Zoolander ).

Here's a question -- when did his campaign first take a campaign contribution? You can only legally collect contributions if you're a candidate with an official campaign committee. Did he wait til after the FILING DEADLINE to take a contribution?

[Baselinepunk]

And where, pray tell do they "contribute their experience"? You obviously haven't heard the drum beat in DPD to get people from behind desks and into the street.
Just admit that you're a union hater and jealous of people who put in their time, i.e. risked their life on a daily basis for relatively low pay to protect your sorry a** and now expect the CoD to hold up their end of the bargain. I bet you're o.k. with the fact that Wall Street never took even a trim let alone a haircut after the great collapse that they caused. Made 100% whole, weren't they?

+1.

Post of the week.

[mam2009]

Michigan Compiled Laws 168.558

"[[4) An affidavit of identity shall include a statement that as of the date of the affidavit, all statements, reports, late filing fees, and fines required of the candidate or any candidate committee organized to support the candidate's election under the Michigan campaign finance act, 1976 PA 388, MCL 169.201 to 169.282, have been filed or paid; and a statement that the candidate acknowledges that making a false statement in the affidavit is perjury, punishable by a fine up to $1,000.00 or imprisonment for up to 5 years, or both. If a candidate files the affidavit of identity with an officer other than the county clerk or secretary of state, the officer shall immediately forward to the county clerk 1 copy of the affidavit of identity by first-class mail. The county clerk shall immediately forward 1 copy of the affidavit of identity for state and federal candidates to the secretary of state by first-class mail. An officer shall not certify to the board of election commissioners the name of a candidate who fails to comply with this section."

I guess that's ambiguous enough to mean "as of the filing deadline" too...

[compn]

but we should not move the goal posts for them

i dont think asking him to refile 2 weeks later is moving any goalpost.
do you?

but since he got screwed by the clerk and a judge and himself for filing early, i think allowing him to refile _just this once_ should be ok.

[corktownyuppie]

Michigan Compiled Laws 168.558

"[[4) An affidavit of identity shall include a statement that as of the date of the affidavit, all statements, reports, late filing fees, and fines required of the candidate or any candidate committee organized to support the candidate's election under the Michigan campaign finance act, 1976 PA 388, MCL 169.201 to 169.282, have been filed or paid; and a statement that the candidate acknowledges that making a false statement in the affidavit is perjury, punishable by a fine up to $1,000.00 or imprisonment for up to 5 years, or both. If a candidate files the affidavit of identity with an officer other than the county clerk or secretary of state, the officer shall immediately forward to the county clerk 1 copy of the affidavit of identity by first-class mail. The county clerk shall immediately forward 1 copy of the affidavit of identity for state and federal candidates to the secretary of state by first-class mail.

This seems pretty clear to me. But if leaves another question...

An officer shall not certify to the board of election commissioners the name of a candidate who fails to comply with this section."

Had the officer not certified the candidate, citing the reasons why, it would have given the candidate the opportunity to take corrective action...waiting the necessary 2 weeks and then returning.

Since the officer went ahead and certified the candidate, what does the law say about how to proceed?

[mam2009]

This seems pretty clear to me. But if leaves another question...



Had the officer not certified the candidate, citing the reasons why, it would have given the candidate the opportunity to take corrective action...waiting the necessary 2 weeks and then returning.

Since the officer went ahead and certified the candidate, what does the law say about how to proceed?

Was he certified before the deadline for submissions? Is the Clerk legally obligated to certify a candidate BEFORE the filing deadline? CAN a candidate legally withdraw his filing BEFORE the deadline once its been submitted and then legally sumbit it again before the deadline? I don't know.

Is ignorance or IGNORE-ance of the law ever a legally valid argument for breaking it? I THINK I know the answer to that question.

[Honky Tonk]

Was he certified before the deadline for submissions. Is the Clerk legally obligated to certify a candidate BEFORE the filing deadline? CAN a candidate legally withdraw his filing BEFORE the deadline once its been submitted and then legally sumbit it again before the deadline? I don't know.

Is ignorance or IGNORE-ance of the law ever a legally valid argument for breaking it? I THINK I know the answer to that question.

I agree, ignorance on Janice M. Winfrey's part IS unexcusable. She should turn in her resignation.

[artds]

Michigan Compiled Laws 168.558

"[[4) An affidavit of identity shall include a statement that as of the date of the affidavit, all statements, reports, late filing fees, and fines required of the candidate or any candidate committee organized to support the candidate's election under the Michigan campaign finance act, 1976 PA 388, MCL 169.201 to 169.282, have been filed or paid; and a statement that the candidate acknowledges that making a false statement in the affidavit is perjury, punishable by a fine up to $1,000.00 or imprisonment for up to 5 years, or both. If a candidate files the affidavit of identity with an officer other than the county clerk or secretary of state, the officer shall immediately forward to the county clerk 1 copy of the affidavit of identity by first-class mail. The county clerk shall immediately forward 1 copy of the affidavit of identity for state and federal candidates to the secretary of state by first-class mail. An officer shall not certify to the board of election commissioners the name of a candidate who fails to comply with this section."

I guess that's ambiguous enough to mean "as of the filing deadline" too...

I don't think that statute is ambiguous at all, but your post certainly is. What do you think the relevance is of this statute to the Duggan matter? Seems rather random and off-topic.

[mam2009]

More light reading...Duggan's Supreme Court response to Barrow's request to bypass Michigan Court of Appeals.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...47883778,d.aWc

[Lily]

It is really disheartening to see Tom Barrow pushing to get Mike Duggan removed from the ballot. Wonder how he figures this mess will all get paid for?
How the people of the City will benefit from Mr Barrow's push to get Duggan's name off the ballot?

Silly me, here i thought elections were held to let the voters decide who was best for the job? But, if i understand it correctly......the candidate with a criminal record can legally run, but the candidate who .......... I will stop there, don't want to see my first post here deleted.

hopefully the Appeals Court ruling will be released by morning.

btw, thanks for the light reading links. Reading them really does help clarify questions i had.

Lily [[new member who found this site while looking at the sad but wonderful pictures of old Detroit - wonderful reference material)

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Come on Wesley, 67 for a pension is ridiculous. All of us peasants have to work until death so the elites can fuck us over and hoard all the money. Let people have some dignity in life and be able to walk off the job with an income and able to enjoy while they can still be mobile. Your retirement is basically from the workplace to the grave. We can afford the pensions and health care but our country decides to spend trillions in Iraq and Afghanistan instead of spending it here.

On this ridiculous notion that we don't need unions LOL. Look where we are heading. $8 hour and no benefits jobs aplenty. Give it another 10-15 years and Unions will be popular again. This is just a ridiculous phase where the elites have brainwashed the masses into thinking unions are bad and $8 hour jobs with no benefits are awesome.

+ 1 You hit the nail on the head.

[Zacha341]

Welcome to DetroitYES Lily!

[Richard]

It is really disheartening to see Tom Barrow pushing to get Mike Duggan removed from the ballot. Wonder how he figures this mess will all get paid for?
How the people of the City will benefit from Mr Barrow's push to get Duggan's name off the ballot?

Silly me, here i thought elections were held to let the voters decide who was best for the job? But, if i understand it correctly......the candidate with a criminal record can legally run, but the candidate who .......... I will stop there, don't want to see my first post here deleted.

hopefully the Appeals Court ruling will be released by morning.

btw, thanks for the light reading links. Reading them really does help clarify questions i had.

Lily [[new member who found this site while looking at the sad but wonderful pictures of old Detroit - wonderful reference material)

Mr. Barrow never really had a chance his best bet was to tag team with another forerunner to draw the heat,collect the spoils later ,irregardless both seem to be afraid of running on their merits so they try to rid of the opposition.

As you noted who picks up the tab as usual is the residents ,which is repeating a past history that is trying to be eliminated to begin with,the whole thing of what is good for the city and its residents verses self gain.

[Wesley Mouch]

Come on Wesley, 67 for a pension is ridiculous. All of us peasants have to work until death so the elites can fuck us over and hoard all the money. Let people have some dignity in life and be able to walk off the job with an income and able to enjoy while they can still be mobile. Your retirement is basically from the workplace to the grave. We can afford the pensions and health care but our country decides to spend trillions in Iraq and Afghanistan instead of spending it here.

On this ridiculous notion that we don't need unions LOL. Look where we are heading. $8 hour and no benefits jobs aplenty. Give it another 10-15 years and Unions will be popular again. This is just a ridiculous phase where the elites have brainwashed the masses into thinking unions are bad and $8 hour jobs with no benefits are awesome.

Only time will tell. Maybe Unions will wake up and stop being a private club and actually care about workers. Their decline has been welcome and of their own making. They prefer high wages for a few over good wages for all.

[Zacha341]

Absentee Ballots go out this weekend. Are they holding the printing presses to see if Duggan will win his case to be put on?

[Honky Tonk]

It is really disheartening to see Tom Barrow pushing to get Mike Duggan removed from the ballot. Wonder how he figures this mess will all get paid for?
How the people of the City will benefit from Mr Barrow's push to get Duggan's name off the ballot?

Silly me, here i thought elections were held to let the voters decide who was best for the job? But, if i understand it correctly......the candidate with a criminal record can legally run, but the candidate who .......... I will stop there, don't want to see my first post here deleted.

hopefully the Appeals Court ruling will be released by morning.

btw, thanks for the light reading links. Reading them really does help clarify questions i had.

Lily [[new member who found this site while looking at the sad but wonderful pictures of old Detroit - wonderful reference material)

I'm unclear on this. Is Barrow a felon? What kind of criminal record does he have? I thought only felons weren't allowed to hold office? Anyone know the story here?

[mam2009]

I'm unclear on this. Is Barrow a felon? What kind of criminal record does he have? I thought only felons weren't allowed to hold office? Anyone know the story here?

http://www.freep.com/article/2012011...ate-Tom-Barrow

[jaytheory]

...and kids 20 yrs and 11 months old get MIPs. Lawyers can't practice the day before their bar results come back. A kid 15 yrs and 11 months old can't consent to sex...etc. We have minimum requirements for all sorts of things. The...meh, it would have been legal a few days later defense is usually a loser.

Not the same thing. when turning 21 there is only one event to mark that event. in this case there are two dates, his filing and the deadline. Michigan law does not state by the age of 21 it states any minor cannot purchase or posses alcohol so that is different from the charter and residency requirements.

[Honky Tonk]

http://www.freep.com/article/2012011...ate-Tom-Barrow

So he is a convicted fellon. This still doesn't explain why he is allowed to run fo office, and if he should be elected, why he would be allowed to serve.