Michigan to receive $100M to demolish vacant homes

[Honky Tonk]

Scrappers are stealing things illegally. If they could make money off of stealing the wood, they would! Instead they leave it a valueless carcass.

That and a lot of these houses have burned in the past too, making salvage more difficult. There's a place on 15th and Grand River, Architectural Salvage I go to from time to time. They seem to do Ok with the items they carry. These kinds of places are great for a certain urban renewer mentality, but the few contractors I know say unless specified, their clients want new from the big chain stores.

[ghettopalmetto]

Are you living under a rock? There is a gigantic policing problem around here!

It does not take much extrapolating to conclude that if it happens to me, it is happening to others.

Exactly. Policing problem = Call the demolition companies? I don't follow the logic.

Maybe Adamo can get into auto-wrecking for cars that have been impounded, huh?

You can clear-cut the entire City of Detroit if you want. It's not going to accomplish a damned thing, other than allow a prairie to establish itself. And cost taxpayers dump truck loads of money.

[Richard]

Yes, and I don't condone it. Removing live phone wires or public statuary. Bad.

If we could find a way to channel the scrappers energy into recycling, we'd be onto something.

Crack down on scrappers ,give them 100 hours community service working with the deconstruction firms their pay goes back into the system to pay for the program,they may learn a trade the city saves on demolition maybe some will gain pride in contributing to the solution verses being a part of the problem.

Some maybe doing it to survive verses some that are doing it as a quick fix,separate them and make it easier to deal with it.Throwing them all in jail is just creating more funding woes.

[Honky Tonk]

Yes, and I don't condone it. Removing live phone wires or public statuary. Bad.

If we could find a way to channel the scrappers energy into recycling, we'd be onto something.

Two words: Pay Them.

[poobert]

Of course I'd rather have a neighbor living in the house next to me than a vacant lot, but I'd rather have a vacant lot than a run-down, crumbling, half-burnt, vacant house.

In my opinion, only the most burned-out shells should be demolished.

Her in East English Village, in the wake of the housing crisis of 07'-08', we ended up with a good number of vacant homes that were in pretty bad shape. Granted, none were totally burned-out shells. However the Detroit Land Bank worked with the neighborhood association to rehab these properties [[many of which would probably have made a demo list) and now they are selling - not listed, but selling - for 70k - 90k. While some may have required nearly that much in work, they're now filled with solid middle-class families paying taxes.

Keep in mind that a vacant lot is a liability in itself. First and foremost they become magnets for dumping and loitering. Anything vacant is not a good thing.

I say if they're going to tear something down, plant a freaking forest in its place or something. Sell it to the next door neighbor for one dollar if they will fence it in and maintain it. Do something proactive instead of acting like goddamn idiots, just salivating to get the vote of the old lady next door for tearing down that vacant house.

[Richard]

For every empty lot there are costs attached long term and short term the more empty lots the more the taxpayer has to pay for in increased taxes the higher the taxes the less that will want to live there.

If they form a panel that has a building inspector,experienced contractor,and a historical representative that goes street by street and looks at every house and makes the determination of demolition or secure or rehabilitate. Behind them are the boarding crews and then the deconstruction crews then the demolisher crews.

Without the legislation and as written that is what the currant funds are for ,fast, effective,and has results.

We probably will not even get into the throwing of the $100 million dollar bone when the entire $500 mil is supposed to be used for this so who gets the other $400 mil? Which is not even the correct figure of allotted funds to begin with.

[Honky Tonk]

In my opinion, only the most burned-out shells should be demolished.

Her in East English Village, in the wake of the housing crisis of 07'-08', we ended up with a good number of vacant homes that were in pretty bad shape. Granted, none were totally burned-out shells. However the Detroit Land Bank worked with the neighborhood association to rehab these properties [[many of which would probably have made a demo list) and now they are selling - not listed, but selling - for 70k - 90k. While some may have required nearly that much in work, they're now filled with solid middle-class families paying taxes.

Keep in mind that a vacant lot is a liability in itself. First and foremost they become magnets for dumping and loitering. Anything vacant is not a good thing.

I say if they're going to tear something down, plant a freaking forest in its place or something. Sell it to the next door neighbor for one dollar if they will fence it in and maintain it. Do something proactive instead of acting like goddamn idiots, just salivating to get the vote of the old lady next door for tearing down that vacant house.

Agreed, and yes it CAN be done. East English Village has the right kind of people in it, mostly. And you have to have people that are willing to take the task on and follow it through. Go visit neighborhoods that don't have those kind of people, or aren't as desireable to live in. People there will tell you these abandoned houses are fire hazzards, draw undesireables and crime, or packs of wild dogs, and they would like to see them gone.

[ghettopalmetto]

Go visit neighborhoods that don't have those kind of people, or aren't as desireable to live in. People there will tell you these abandoned houses are fire hazzards, draw undesireables and crime, or packs of wild dogs, and they would like to see them gone.

That's a problem for the Police and Fire Departments, then. Not Adamo. This is an abdication of responsibility.

[Honky Tonk]

That's a problem for the Police and Fire Departments, then. Not Adamo. This is an abdication of responsibility.

Then go see "Burn". They mention in the documentory there are something like 70,000 abandonded houses in Detroit. Go talk to the arsonists. Ask them to quit starting abandoned houses on fire because it's a drain on the resources and neighborhoods. Go talk to the vandals, I mean "arteests". Ask them to quit painting and making structures look like crap, because good people move out and it only invites arsonists, undesireables, scrappers, and packs of wild dogs, ruining the neighborhoods. When you get everyone on board with your ideas, you will then have saved Detroit, and I'll publicly post "hey, you know what ghettopalmetto, you were right".

[Det_ard]

"According to Community & Economic Development Director Jason Friedmann, the cost of deconstructing a building is about $25,000 versus $7,500 for demolition.
"However, once the salvaged material is sold the venture actually turns a profit, to the tune of about $15,000. Last year a house on Carpenter was deconstructed and the material was sold at a wholesale price of $40,000, with an estimated retail value of around $100,000."

Yeah, don't try any of that profitable stuff that helps start businesses and employ groups of workers with new skill sets. Just keep paying the same old wrecking companies to knock houses down into the basement. Maybe for a few extra hundred they can salt the earth there so that nothing may grow again ...

That doesn't pass the smell test, at least as any kind of large-scale replicable endeavor. Certain historic, upscale, well-preserved homes, perhaps. The other 99% of Detroit housing, NFW.

I like the idea of renovation, re-use, dismantlement and recovery and I've dropped vintagey house parts off at ASW that I didn't want to just throw in the dumpster. Unfortunately, in an average Detroit home, there's not much of real value. Certainly not enough to offset the $25K bill to recover it.

Which should be obvious to anyone with common sense. If you could pull $40K wholesale or $100K retail out of most or even a decent number of houses, you wouldn't see a tax forclosure list in Detroit with thousands and thousands of houses that won't even sell for $500.

This a nice concept but a very niche business in real life.

[nain rouge]

Agreed, and yes it CAN be done. East English Village has the right kind of people in it, mostly. And you have to have people that are willing to take the task on and follow it through. Go visit neighborhoods that don't have those kind of people, or aren't as desireable to live in. People there will tell you these abandoned houses are fire hazzards, draw undesireables and crime, or packs of wild dogs, and they would like to see them gone.

East English Village benefits from having superior architecture, having originally been built for what I would call the upper middle class. Most struggling Detroit neighborhoods, meanwhile, are just early prototypes for middle or even lower middle class suburbia, and there's just not a lot of demand for that from buyers with choices. People today either want newness with the biggest lawn and most house possible, or they want an urban environment. If you don't believe me, look at the census trends, with inner cities and exurbs generally gaining population while inner ring suburbs slowly decline.

Classic suburbia is now look at more as settling between the two aforementioned styles of living. "Well, I'd love to live in Detroit, but...", or "I'd love to live in Macomb Township, but I don't have the money...". The only thing that could save a Detroit neighborhood like Osborne is decent schools and low crime. That's it. Then, people stuck in between could say stuff like, "The driveway is kinda narrow and I don't have much of a yard, but the price was great and schools are decent, plus it seems pretty safe here."

In my experience, those are the factors that drive the market. Anything else is just fantasy.

[Left_For_Texas]

Detroit discussions are always interesting. On everything that I perceive as good for the city, i.e., money to remove blight, Whole Foods opening, etc., there are a lot of people who think it's bad.

[Detroitnerd]

That doesn't pass the smell test, at least as any kind of large-scale replicable endeavor. Certain historic, upscale, well-preserved homes, perhaps. The other 99% of Detroit housing, NFW.

Well, that's funny, because there it is in black-and-white, from an official source. And yet you're still skeptical? Well, given the way we've all been subsidizing the demolition of the city center and sprawl on the exurban edge, nobody is motivated to come up with good answers; we already fund the bad ones!

If you used the money we currently fund demolitions with to subsidize rehabs, repurposings, upgrades or, if all else fails, deconstruction, who knows what we could have? And if home deconstruction means leaving a site that doesn't need to be remediated, so much the better for us all.

Personally, I'm a little more interested in what these entrepreneurs and public officials have to say in black-and-white than the dismissal of a person who knows nothing about these new tactics.

[nain rouge]

Detroit discussions are always interesting. On everything that I perceive as good for the city, i.e., money to remove blight, Whole Foods opening, etc., there are a lot of people who think it's bad.

Well, I think different social classes value different things. I've noticed that many of the people who "love Detroit" and are its biggest cheerleaders tend to actually live in the suburbs, or can afford the pick of the litter in the city. There's nothing like Kid Rock or Eminem walking through Detroit with a news crew talking about how hard it's been hit, but how they still love it, and all before retiring to their mansion in the 'burbs. Even Dan Gilbert, great as he is, lives in Franklin. Of course he loves Detroit - he doesn't have to live there. He has a choice.

I thought Jack White's somewhat disillusionment with Detroit was more accurate, seeing as how he stuck it out in Mexicantown for so long [[a neighborhood gentrifiers or would-be gentrifiers love but would be reticent to live in).

Personally, I'll admit that I don't live in Detroit, but I try to keep an even perspective. I do a lot of driving on Gratiot and can see the underside, plus I live in dreaded South Warren by the beloved Eastpointe, so I think that alters my perspective on popular opinion in regards to cities in the area.

[Honky Tonk]

East English Village benefits from having superior architecture, having originally been built for what I would call the upper middle class. Most struggling Detroit neighborhoods, meanwhile, are just early prototypes for middle or even lower middle class suburbia, and there's just not a lot of demand for that from buyers with choices. People today either want newness with the biggest lawn and most house possible, or they want an urban environment. If you don't believe me, look at the census trends, with inner cities and exurbs generally gaining population while inner ring suburbs slowly decline.

Classic suburbia is now look at more as settling between the two aforementioned styles of living. "Well, I'd love to live in Detroit, but...", or "I'd love to live in Macomb Township, but I don't have the money...". The only thing that could save a Detroit neighborhood like Osborne is decent schools and low crime. That's it. Then, people stuck in between could say stuff like, "The driveway is kinda narrow and I don't have much of a yard, but the price was great and schools are decent, plus it seems pretty safe here."

In my experience, those are the factors that drive the market. Anything else is just fantasy.

Exactly. A LOT of Detroit houses built during the boom era were pure crap and are worthless. It's only the better built, upper-middle class homes that ARE worth salvaging. eg: East English Village. And you've also hit the nail on the head for suburban sprawl. The average Joe, who was making good money @ the auto factory, wanted a nicer house with some breathing room around it. So when he could afford it, off he went.

[Detroitnerd]

Detroit discussions are always interesting. On everything that I perceive as good for the city, i.e., money to remove blight, Whole Foods opening, etc., there are a lot of people who think it's bad.

It's important to have debates about these so-called "silver bullets." We've had 50-plus years of "silver bullet thinking." One example is this idea that Detroit would turn around if we could just bulldoze blight away, for instance. We have been "bulldozing blighted neighborhoods" since the 1950s. What hath it wrought?

[DetroitPlanner]

Go check out Materials Unlimited in Ypsilanti, they have whole rooms of mahogany paneling pulled out of demolished mansions in Grosse Pointe, running for thousands of dollars.

I am sure they would strip that wood! Especially if they can have a fancy store fence it for them!

[ghettopalmetto]

It's important to have debates about these so-called "silver bullets." We've had 50-plus years of "silver bullet thinking." One example is this idea that Detroit would turn around if we could just bulldoze blight away, for instance. We have been "bulldozing blighted neighborhoods" since the 1950s. What hath it wrought?

You scoff, but just you wait. Get the blighted houses out of the way of the new development, build a new hockey arena, and then Detroit will *really* take off, with all sorts of new spinoff development and jobs.

[Richard]

Exactly. A LOT of Detroit houses built during the boom era were pure crap and are worthless. It's only the better built, upper-middle class homes that ARE worth salvaging. eg: East English Village. And you've also hit the nail on the head for suburban sprawl. The average Joe, who was making good money @ the auto factory, wanted a nicer house with some breathing room around it. So when he could afford it, off he went.

what about the waitress or bar keep that cannot afford to live in EEV?

They have just as much right to become a home owner as others ,they will purchase something,maybe not fancy well built with a large yard but it would be a functional roof over their head that they can call home within their budget, and maybe a few years down the line they can sell that house and move into EEV.

There is or could be a need for all house stock just as there are all levels of pay grades and to write something off as saying they were just crappy built houses anyways is the same as saying to demolish will rid of drug dealers.

They were built to serve a need ,they were some bodies house ,home and a place where families were raised with memories the city needs taxpayers,homeowners with pride in their neighborhoods and strong residents to support the local businesses ,how many vacant lots do you see buying products at Eastern market ?

[1953]

My house is still underwater because of the financial collapse; how about we use the money to bail me out before spending it to demo houses, which will do nothing but create a meadow from 8 mile to the river, as has been pointed out here.

[nain rouge]

I agree that we need housing for all income levels [[duh), but the problem is that Detroit's early suburbia currently has to compete with the inner ring suburbs, where there are still some really good deals to be had. The only way Detroit can get on even footing with such areas is through quality schools and respectable crime rates. You can demolish as many homes as you want, but it's barely going to make a dent in market demand. The dope boys will just move into the next dirt cheap house, keeping values depressed.

[TKshreve]

It's important to have debates about these so-called "silver bullets." We've had 50-plus years of "silver bullet thinking." One example is this idea that Detroit would turn around if we could just bulldoze blight away, for instance. We have been "bulldozing blighted neighborhoods" since the 1950s. What hath it wrought?

There are still a lot of houses that have yet to be scrapped and then burned into rubble. So if we can find a way to stem that particular tide, perhaps this round bulldozing would have a positive, lasting impact.

Alter Road has drastically transformed in the last ~4 years to my surprise. Sadly ever 3rd house is boarded, burned or gone.

EEV was mentioned above. The last time I drove through it, I was in awe with how many homes are boarded up and awaiting the scrappers and arsonists. Perhaps that community has a plan for preventing this, I don't know.

Deconstruction and rehab sounds great on paper, but in reality the more layers of accountability you add to this grand plan, tho more pockets will open up for this funding to fall into.

I also worry about what kind of shoddy housing will infill these prairies once their called up to the big game again.

Fix the crime, stem the scrapping and arson and perhaps we can discuss rehabbing the barely-out-of-the-game housing, or it too will fall into the needs to be razed category.

[Richard]

My house is still underwater because of the financial collapse; how about we use the money to bail me out before spending it to demo houses, which will do nothing but create a meadow from 8 mile to the river, as has been pointed out here.

You can use some of that money for help,part of the deal was for the banks to rewrite the mortgage to prevent future foreclosures and prevent those from walking away and creating further devastation.

It is meant to deal with all sides,past, present and future and not just a quick stop gap.

There are centers with leagle aid set up to assist with this ,I posted this was coming down the pipeline about 5 month's ago with all of the links,but the settlement was halted for awhile because the cities receiving it in the beginning were using the funds to prop up their books instead of putting it to use for their intended purpose.

The local community housing authority should be able to direct you to the centers.

[Richard]

If you were already foreclosed on.

Borrowers can call Rust at 1-888-952-9105 to update their contact information or to verify that they are covered by the agreement.

If you need help prevent foreclosure.

Regulators encourage borrowers needing foreclosure prevention assistance to work directly with their servicer or contact the Homeowner's HOPE Hotline at 888-995-HOPE [[4673) [[or at www.makinghomeaffordable.gov) to be put you in touch with a U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development approved nonprofit organization that can provide free assistance.

Or go here with more information

http://www.occ.gov/

[Detroitnerd]

I swear, it seems everybody gets on board with every regressive, stopgap, ridiculously expensive, silver-bullet, try-it-even-though-it-fails-every-time idea. Demolish blight until our dreams come true! Expand freeways until the prosperity comes knocking! Keep turning nasty old eyesores into beautiful parking lots! Give billionaire developers lots and lots of tax abatements! No, sir, no critical thinking needed here. Roll out the red carpet for alla them goood idears!

But when it comes to NEW ideas, tinkering with what we keep trying, or even saying some other ideas may be preferable, THAT is when the voice of reason speaks loud and clear: "We don't need to try that; what we need is low crime and good schools! Without these, nothing will work!"

I am so effing sick at tired of what I call "water-bailers." The ship is sinking. There's a big hole in the side of it. We could be patching up that hole a bit. But NO! Instead of patching up the hole, bit by bit, we hear, "That patch ain't gonna work! It's too small! We need to bail alla this water instead!" And so we go on bailing water and bailing water and it keeps pouring in. Jesus, no wonder this city is effed.