Report: Pulte HQ Bailing out of Detroit

**Gistok** · June-10-13, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

I would include Windsor as part of Metropolitan Detroit. Our economies are intertwined [[manufacturing and medical) and Windsor shares a border with the Central City [[Detroit).

DetroitPlanner... I've only ever seen Windsor's population included in Detroit's statistics if we're talking "world cities"... otherwise statisticians don't like to count residents of a foreign country.

**Spartan** · June-10-13, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

I'm not sure what you mean.

The census is based off commuting patterns within the US. Atlanta and Alabama are both within the US, Windsor is not.

We're talking about the amount of people in two comparable cities. Atlanta is supposedly "bigger" as a metro area, but that largely stems from the fact that many of the cities near to Detroit do not count as part of the metro area. A good amount of Canadians work in and visit Detroit on a regular basis but do not count. Detroit also loses some of its "metro" population to other cities around it, whereas the Atlanta metro area can claim just about anything within a large radius, including across state lines. I'd guess a decent amount of people commute to Detroit from northern Ohio as well, but that won't count as "metro Detroit."

What I'm getting at, is that just because there is a system for calculating city size that is reliable and measurable, doesn't mean that it's necessarily accurate for comparison purposes.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · June-10-13, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by Brian1979

Gilbert has no business even commenting on this, if a busness wants to relocate that is their business, why should we be glad that Gilbert made himself look like a child?

That doesn't surprise me. He made himself look foolish with the Lebron James fiasco as well, saying Cleveland would win a title before Miami. How did that turn out for ya Danny boy??

**Cincinnati_Kid** · June-10-13, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Well there you go. Atlanta spends money and draws corporate headquarters, Detroit spends money and draws supermarkets. Maybe that could be Detroit's logo? "Move to Detroit, we have lettuce."

More like "lettuce-heads"

**DetroitPlanner** · June-10-13, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

DetroitPlanner... I've only ever seen Windsor's population included in Detroit's statistics if we're talking "world cities"... otherwise statisticians don't like to count residents of a foreign country.

True, We don't get federal dough based upon Windsor's population. However, Windsor does contribute to our economy and our traffic issues. Just look at how many trucks are using us as their conduit to the greater Windsor area. All those Chrysler Minivans you see getting trucked around are employing people on both sides of the border regardless if the carrier has US or Canadian plates.

**Gistok** · June-10-13, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by Spartan

We're talking about the amount of people in two comparable cities. Atlanta is supposedly "bigger" as a metro area, but that largely stems from the fact that many of the cities near to Detroit do not count as part of the metro area. A good amount of Canadians work in and visit Detroit on a regular basis but do not count. Detroit also loses some of its "metro" population to other cities around it, whereas the Atlanta metro area can claim just about anything within a large radius, including across state lines. I'd guess a decent amount of people commute to Detroit from northern Ohio as well, but that won't count as "metro Detroit."

What I'm getting at, is that just because there is a system for calculating city size that is reliable and measurable, doesn't mean that it's necessarily accurate for comparison purposes.

Well stated Spartan!

Even Atlanta's 8,000+ square miles pales by comparison to some of the more western metro areas... again with few other large cities nearby... examples...

Dallas/Fort Worth... 9,200 sq. miles.
Houston.... 10,000 square miles.
Phoenix..... 16,500 square miles.

You would have to include all of Saginaw, Lansing, Jackson, Bay City northern Ohio and points in between to get a size to match some of these metro areas!

Even Chicago has a 10,800 sq. mile metro area... partly because of farther residents working in Cook County, where Chicago is located.

Something tells me that the criteria has more to do with if the workers live in the central city/county... than if they live farther out. For example... I'm sure that many folks in counties north of Oakand work in that county. But based on the central city/county criteria of metro area calculations... they don't count towards the metro Detroit count.

Apples and oranges....

**4V4DMD** · June-10-13, 04:53 PM

Why didn't Snyder's lowered business tax keep this company in Michigan? He slashed their taxes so they should have saved money staying here?!?

**313WX** · June-10-13, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by Spartan

We're talking about the amount of people in two comparable cities. Atlanta is supposedly "bigger" as a metro area, but that largely stems from the fact that many of the cities near to Detroit do not count as part of the metro area. A good amount of Canadians work in and visit Detroit on a regular basis but do not count. Detroit also loses some of its "metro" population to other cities around it, whereas the Atlanta metro area can claim just about anything within a large radius, including across state lines. I'd guess a decent amount of people commute to Detroit from northern Ohio as well, but that won't count as "metro Detroit."

What I'm getting at, is that just because there is a system for calculating city size that is reliable and measurable, doesn't mean that it's necessarily accurate for comparison purposes.

Well as I said earlier in the thread, if you have a problem with the way the census measures MSAs, take it up with them.

Their measures seem to work just fine everywhere else but Detroit.

**nain rouge** · June-10-13, 09:22 PM

Uh, have you guys ever of combined statistical areas [[CSAs)? The CSA for Detroit includes Detroit, Flint, Monroe, Adrian, Port Huron, Howell, and Ann Arbor, which seems reasonable to me. Even still, Atlanta's CSA beats Detroit by about 600,000 people, and the lead continues to grow each year. Yes, Atlanta's CSA includes more counties, but look on a map - Georgia has way more counties, many smaller than what you see in Metro Detroit.

I think this argument reveals a fatal flaw in how many Metro Detroiters perceive their region. We'll concede that New York, Chicago, L.A., and D.C. beat us on many fronts, but otherwise, many of us seem to think that we can go toe to toe with any other metro. The truth, though, is we've fallen behind pretty much all of the second tier areas and are quickly cementing our place in the third tier. It sucks, but I think accepting that would allow us to evaluate our situation better.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · June-11-13, 01:25 AM

Originally Posted by rb336

Simple, it's for the "Atlanta has its shit together" crowd. no, it doesn't. It just offers big bribes to companies to stay there. It kills me when people say "x is great and has its shit together and that is why it is doing so well." 9 times out of 10, that x has higher poverty rates, high illiteracy rates, high infant mortality rates, etc. Yes, Michigan has some of those problems too, just pointing out that "good business climate" doesn't translate into getting rid of those problems. Also just as an aside, Michigan has done worse attracting new businesses under Snyder's "business friendly" republican government than it did under his predecessor.

And some people here are praising Snyder like he's a messiah. PLEASE !!!! Can't wait until that clown is voted out in 14. Him and his republican hooligans have made this state worse than when "Jenny" was here.

**DTWflyer** · June-11-13, 06:47 AM

Snyder and/or changes in the business tax structure would likely not have influenced Pulte one way or another. This company was moving its Headquarters out of Michigan no matter what.
The CEO wants to live in Atlanta, period. Atlanta is right in the middle of one of its highest growth areas. The new housing construction in Metro Detroit/Michigan/Great Lakes region is a fraction of that in the Southeast. You really couldn't encourage this business to stay in this case, and its not like Metro Detroit has a leg to stand on to attract companies in the home building industry.

Btw, who cares about all this statistical garbage about MSAs and regional area, it has absolutely no relevance to this thread, other than I guess trying to impress each other with meaningless stats.

**Brian1979** · June-11-13, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid

That doesn't surprise me. He made himself look foolish with the Lebron James fiasco as well, saying Cleveland would win a title before Miami. How did that turn out for ya Danny boy??

LOL after reading his comment about Pulte relocating I rethought that comment he made after Lebron left Cleveland and laughed at how childish Gilbert has acted. I also love how he's somehow the savior of Detroit just because he owns a dozen or so buildings downtown.

**Brian1979** · June-11-13, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Well stated Spartan!

Even Atlanta's 8,000+ square miles pales by comparison to some of the more western metro areas... again with few other large cities nearby... examples...

Dallas/Fort Worth... 9,200 sq. miles.
Houston.... 10,000 square miles.
Phoenix..... 16,500 square miles.

You would have to include all of Saginaw, Lansing, Jackson, Bay City northern Ohio and points in between to get a size to match some of these metro areas!

Even Chicago has a 10,800 sq. mile metro area... partly because of farther residents working in Cook County, where Chicago is located.

Something tells me that the criteria has more to do with if the workers live in the central city/county... than if they live farther out. For example... I'm sure that many folks in counties north of Oakand work in that county. But based on the central city/county criteria of metro area calculations... they don't count towards the metro Detroit count.

Apples and oranges....

Cook County geographically is only slightly bigger than Oakland County. I think both are in the neighborhood of the 900 square mile area, Cook County loses a lot of area due to Lake Michigan though.

There are nine counties within Illinois that are within the Chicago Metro area, four in Indiana and one in Wisconsin. I would imagine it would spread to an area going west from downtown Detroit to about Chelsea along I-94 and about Howell along I-96 and going north to south in Chicago it's probably about the top of Oakland County to Monroe big, but the big difference is NW Indiana is part of the Chicago area as well, where the Detroit area stops at the river, I've never considered Windsor to be part of the Detroit area because it's in another country.

**noggin** · June-11-13, 11:36 AM

Really what it boils down to with big companies is where does the CEO want to live. The CEO of Pulte is from Atlanta and poof he can justify moving it there.

One of the large problems Detroit area has is that over the years other corporations that no connection to the auto industry have been squeezed out of the area. Whether these companies do not have a UAW or big 3 connection has made it a political and economic disadvantage to stay here. In other areas of the country where the economies are much more diversified they have much more access to resources to help them grow.

**Honky Tonk** · June-11-13, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by noggin

Really what it boils down to with big companies is where does the CEO want to live. The CEO of Pulte is from Atlanta and poof he can justify moving it there.

One of the large problems Detroit area has is that over the years other corporations that no connection to the auto industry have been squeezed out of the area. Whether these companies do not have a UAW or big 3 connection has made it a political and economic disadvantage to stay here. In other areas of the country where the economies are much more diversified they have much more access to resources to help them grow.

I've read that a few times in this thread, and I don't know if I fully agree with or buy that. Is Pulte privately owned, or traded? A CEO has only so much power he can wield, he has to answer to stockholders. He can't move a company across the country "because he wants to". My guess is something else is going on behind the curtain. I think the 2nd part of your post is on the money. Now that Chrysler and GM are a bit more even keel, I sense this "everything's back to normal" attitude.