James Craig + Kevyn Orr = More cops on the street?

[coracle]

One theory is that the state of Michigan will find a pot of gold and hand it to Detroit now that Orr is in control.

The other theory is the same, except instead of the state of Michigan it would be suburban corporations.

That's not a workable solution because once the pot of gold is spent another one will be wanted; then another one; then another one and so on. There will be no limit on wants if somebody else's money is made available. Detroit will remain dependent and never recover. Its a lose/lose solution for the State and/or Suburbs. I can't image anyone handing over a pot of gold for Detroit to spend based on its history of managing money.

[313WX]

That's not a workable solution because once the pot of gold is spent another one will be wanted; then another one; then another one and so on. There will be no limit on wants if somebody else's money is made available. Detroit will remain dependent and never recover. Its a lose/lose solution for the State and/or Suburbs. I can't image anyone handing over a pot of gold for Detroit to spend based on its history of managing money.

Except for the fact that now, the state/suburbs are controlling Detroit's spending habits.

But I agree, long term, it's not healthy for a city as big as Detroit to depend on the "goodwill" of others to meet its obligations.

[Wesley Mouch]

...snip...A government [[especially a municipal government) exists for one reason. To provide services to its residents. The people will elect what is fair way to do so. And if the government fails to do it, the political structure will eventually fail to exist.

CTY, I'm curious what you think about the political structures that serve us. It seems to me that the structures have failed. Municipal government seems broken.

Why isn't it possible for our government to reform itself without the need for an EFM. Some seem to just think that we need more money. Sure, money will paper over the problems. But why can't government fix itself during good times. How do we refocus government on the citizens instead of its own self-perpetuation?

[Richard]

They were not serving you that's the problem.
You could not walk up and fire them because you would have had chaos and the remaining would have burned the ship to the ground on the way out,there would have been a 10 month void of destruction so it had to be a controlled change of power.

Not a very nice way of doing things but when you have a borderline case of crimes against humanity and a self gratifying destruction of a great amercian city one could argue something had to be done fast,I would guess it is up to the currant and future residents to see if the ends justify the means.

The charter will help in the refocus part in a major way the CC members will gain the power through the people ,if you do not help your people then you will have no power or job the more people involved the bigger voice you have to get things done.

Things like street lights out become a non issiue because it does not happen to begin with.
Not speaking for CTY though.

[coracle]

Except for the fact that now, the state/suburbs are controlling Detroit's spending habits.

But I agree, long term, it's not healthy for a city as big as Detroit to depend on the "goodwill" of others to meet its obligations.

I certainly wasn't aware that the state/suburbs are controlling Detroit's spending habits and I'm curious how they achieve this and how long they've been doing it.

[coracle]

Based on what is being reported about him it looks like he is definitely a man for the job. But I'm always wary when Reporters wax lyrical about someone that they need later access too for their job reasons. At this level he should be allowed to demonstrate how well he can do the job and then report on the success he's achieved.

[corktownyuppie]

I certainly wasn't aware that the state/suburbs are controlling Detroit's spending habits and I'm curious how they achieve this and how long they've been doing it.

Not speaking for 313 here, but I believe that statement was a reference to the state-appointed emergency manager having total unilateral control of the the entire city budget and all expenses.

I'm ok with Kevyn Orr's let's-do-this-methodically approach. But she [[or he?) has a point. Once the EM was in place, any blame about the way the city spend its money no longer falls on the back of the city-elected government.

[313WX]

I certainly wasn't aware that the state/suburbs are controlling Detroit's spending habits and I'm curious how they achieve this and how long they've been doing it.

https://www.google.com/

[coracle]

Not speaking for 313 here, but I believe that statement was a reference to the state-appointed emergency manager having total unilateral control of the the entire city budget and all expenses.

I'm ok with Kevyn Orr's let's-do-this-methodically approach. But she [[or he?) has a point. Once the EM was in place, any blame about the way the city spend its money no longer falls on the back of the city-elected government.

I see your point [[couldn't get https://www.google.com/ from 313WX for some reason). If he fails I hope the State won't get the blame for retrospectively causing the problem. I don't see he can possibly succeed without very dramatically increasing the Tax Base and decreasing the cost of running the City at the same time.[[unless the solution is cosmetic to make the State look good for a while). Both actions would put a further pressure on people paying the taxes to leave. The very best of luck to Mr. Orr; Mr Snyder; Mr. Bing and Detroit.

[corktownyuppie]

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/in..._river_default


"They say he is absolutely wonderful, that he has great leadership skills and the community embraces him," said Diaz, adding that the business community took up a private collection to bolster Craig's salary in the futile hope that he might stay. "Police that are actually on the front lines say they have a chief they can actually get behind."

[Wesley Mouch]

Not speaking for 313 here, but I believe that statement was a reference to the state-appointed emergency manager having total unilateral control of the the entire city budget and all expenses.

I'm ok with Kevyn Orr's let's-do-this-methodically approach. But she [[or he?) has a point. Once the EM was in place, any blame about the way the city spend its money no longer falls on the back of the city-elected government.

True, to the degree that spending is not outside Orr's control. For example, it appears that certain pension payments agreed to by previous administrations on behalf of taxpayers are enduring obligations that cannot be changed by Orr. I'm sure there are many, many more.

I don't think Orr's control is quite so unilateral. But I do get your point. We shall see just how wise the city-elected government will be now. I expect to see everyone fighting for themselves like rats on a sinking ship. I hope we'll see selfless sacrifice for the common good.

[corktownyuppie]

True, to the degree that spending is not outside Orr's control. For example, it appears that certain pension payments agreed to by previous administrations on behalf of taxpayers are enduring obligations that cannot be changed by Orr. I'm sure there are many, many more.

Your point is a good one. It begs a higher question? How do we punish the politicians of generations past for policy decisions of which they conveniently get to avoid the consequences?

There is something fundamentally wrong about getting elected by making 30-year promises but then only being responsible to carry out the first 4 years of them. Municipal finance structure is not helpful here. Let me borrow $500MM via bond issue, pay the interest on it for the first 8 years. Then once I'm out of office and let you worry about the balloon payment due in year 10.

You asked earlier [[and I've thought much about) what causes municipalities to serve themselves first over their citizen base. It's a complex question with lots of layers to it. But one thing that is surely part of our problem is the way municipalities are allowed to manage and amortize debt. Each bond is essentially an interest-only mortgage that will balloon in 10-30 years.

The goal, of course, cannot be to be debt-free [[for a whole host of reasons). But when an asset is declining in value, and you are only paying interest on the mortgage...this is a recipe for total disaster. Combine it with the a political system that rewards short-term decision-making at the expense of the big picture?

Boom goes the dynamite.

[Gannon]

Well, the school cop was two-up this morning...he had someone pulled over on Lafayette on the way in, and another on the way back. That makes three in one week, I'd call it a trend.

Overheard there IS some initiative within the police department, with a catchy name our source couldn't rememer...but no mention of what the incentives to produce, nor definition of production...just that there is some new stuff coming down from upstairs already.

But it could be simple co-incidence. Saw two GPP cops on my street busy this morning when I got back, too. That's not common at all either.

Anyone got the skinny on the shakings within the department yet?! I'll see what I can learn, but we'll be far from the city this weekend.

Cheers

[drjeff]

That stretch of Lafayette has always been like shooting fish in the barrel for traffic cops. One block over on Larned, too. You get a lot of people that try to avoid the traffic on Jefferson, and they use the lack of traffic to increase their speed.

I asked this question on another thread and didn't get any bites. But, does anybody have any stats to show what the return on investment is for one traffic enforcement officer? Do they actually make a profit for the government?

They do in Ann Arbor.

[4V4DMD]

I did notice at the onset of emergency financial manager many more pulled over cars by Detroit PD. It was anecdotal, but I live and work in the city. There seemed to be many more stops by police.

[downtownguy]

They do in Ann Arbor.

I've heard a lot of assumptions that traffic cops make money for municipalities, but i've yet to see stats back it up. Can you provide stats?

A couple of days ago, someone told me he was driving Jefferson and passed a sign saying "seat belt enforcement zone" and then he noticed several Detroit traffic enforcement cops cars lined up to write tickets. Has anybody seen this in the city?

[313WX]

I've heard a lot of assumptions that traffic cops make money for municipalities, but i've yet to see stats back it up. Can you provide stats?

A couple of days ago, someone told me he was driving Jefferson and passed a sign saying "seat belt enforcement zone" and then he noticed several Detroit traffic enforcement cops cars lined up to write tickets. Has anybody seen this in the city?

I saw it twice on Gratiot in the city and once on 8 Mile in Eastpointe.

[ccal]

Recently didn't a former Novi officer [[25year old vet) come out say thats what Novi police were doing?

[webband1]

I've heard a lot of assumptions that traffic cops make money for municipalities, but i've yet to see stats back it up. Can you provide stats?

A couple of days ago, someone told me he was driving Jefferson and passed a sign saying "seat belt enforcement zone" and then he noticed several Detroit traffic enforcement cops cars lined up to write tickets. Has anybody seen this in the city?

On my way home from work Downtown, I passed no less than six DPD on Woodward within four blocks of Mack/MLK, each with a car pulled over. Couple weeks ago, on my way to my parents in Royal Oak, I passed maybe 10 DPD and various tow trucks towing people parked on Woodward. So this seems to have been going on for awhile.

[Wesley Mouch]

I think the DPD will get a lot more efficient pretty quickly. James Craig worked with Bill Bratton [[former commission of NYPD and LAPD) who introduced the data intensive tactics to the NYPD and LAPD [[CompStat).

What Bratton didn't face in NY was budget problems. The budget problem can be solved with a pot of gold. What will be harder to solve is rebuilding organizational and administrative strength.

In NYC [[up and down), the police forces may have needed refocusing, but they were functional. DPD in contrast is rotten. Rebuilding DPD will be more like rebuilding the Iraqi armed forces.