Detroit poaching more businesses from the suburbs

[Wesley Mouch]

The poaching phrase is borrowed from His Holiness, L. Brooks Patterson. He used it when referring to something-or-other leaving his fiefdom for the city. When businesses leave for glorious Oakland County, it's called growth. When they leave Oakland County for Detroit, it's "poaching" on Detroit's part. Whatever. I'm not sure how he's still alive, or worse yet, relevant.

Great news. I work in Midtown. While my job generally sucks, the benefits of working in Midtown makes it a lot more bearable. We get to walk to coffee for lunch, or I can stop by the library. I sometimes stop at the DIA on Fridays after work. That is to say nothing of happy hour! I'd rather be set on fire than work in some shitty 1980's office park in Troy.

I don't really mind city income tax but I do believe it is a case for reform. Give incentives for people living in the city, dipshits, not the other way around. Take a play from Gilbert instead of doing the same dumb shit that hasn't worked for decades.

Why of course it would be Brooksie. He can be a real idiot sometimes; brilliant others. Just like his identical twin Coleman.

Closing comment on 'same dumb shit' is exactly right. Too many people just think its about money. I've paid Detroit taxes 99% of my life, and I don't think they were unreasonable. But Detroit just doesn't need the money. What it needs money can't buy.

[iheartthed]

But the suburban business centers in those areas are generally more urban than Detroit city proper. I mean, is it just because they're suburbs?

If you work in White Plains, or Jersey City, or Stamford, or Morristown, you have frequent rail transit, department stores, walkability, and the like. I could see going car-free in Stamford, but no way in Detroit.

With the exception of Morristown, those aren't suburbs, they're satellite cities. Also, with the exception of Jersey City, I wouldn't call any of them more urban than Detroit.

And the reason you need a car in Detroit is because of regional transportation policy decisions for the past 60-70 years. Detroit was not designed to be a car oriented city.

[casscorridor]

traffic is not that bad in Detroit... try DC, LA or Toronto !

architecture and design firms are relocating to the city to stay competitive in the national/global market, where having an urban image is important. for autos, it doesn't make any difference.

[Wesley Mouch]

traffic is not that bad in Detroit... try DC, LA or Toronto !

architecture and design firms are relocating to the city to stay competitive in the national/global market, where having an urban image is important. for autos, it doesn't make any difference.

My take would be that architecture and design firms are staffed from and owned/operated by people who appreciate urban life. Car companies less so. [[Although I'd be the advertising and design departments would love to move downtown.)

[poobert]

But the suburban business centers in those areas are generally more urban than Detroit city proper. I mean, is it just because they're suburbs?

I know your favoritest thing in the world is to point out how much of Detroit isn't very urban [[not incorrect) - that simply doesn't apply to Fort and Shelby, where this firm is relocating to. Yeah, it isn't Beijing, but that Detroit's core is very much an urban environment.

[hybridy]

The fact that the younger generation of talent they work with are sick and tired of office parks along an expressway and companies in Metro Detroit are sick and tired of losing these folks to companies in Chicago.

couldn't agree more. i accepted a design position in an urban setting over a competitive offer from a firm in a 'soul-crushing' suburban setting [[staring at 696 all day). for those in the creative field, location is a highly coveted advantage when it come to talent recruitment/retention.

[Bham1982]

I know your favoritest thing in the world is to point out how much of Detroit isn't very urban [[not incorrect) - that simply doesn't apply to Fort and Shelby, where this firm is relocating to. Yeah, it isn't Beijing, but that Detroit's core is very much an urban environment.

I disagree. It isn't walker, biker, or transit-friendly, doesn't have comprehensive services, and tends to be a 9-5 or weekend events environment. I do harp on the "Detroit isn't urban" meme, because it's true, and flies in the face of many of the assumptions here.

If it's critically important you live or work in an urban environment, Detroit, to me, is a very odd choice. It's like moving to Fairbanks for the warm weather.

[Spartan]

I rather look at that $1264 as a vacation somewhere warm in the middle of January but thats just me.

The thing is though, that typically a company in the city will pay more than one not in the city. So it's not always a question of how to spend your $1500--in taxes or vacations--but whether you even have the $1500 to spend.

[downtownguy]

I disagree. It isn't walker, biker, or transit-friendly, doesn't have comprehensive services, and tends to be a 9-5 or weekend events environment.

Geez, I've been walking that area for more than 30 years. Thanks for pointing that out. I guess having Campus Martius about a block and a half away just enhances your argument. Perhaps people will drive over there.

[nain rouge]

Give me a small office park in Southfield any day! City income tax? Crime? Please. Give me a parking lot in Southfield with a roving homeless person and a KFC vaguely in walking distance any day! What kind of idiot business would move to Detoilet?

Why, once you're really on the up and up, you can move to an office park in Troy, where they have like six good restaurants sort of in driving distance AND a Whole Foods. Plus you get to keep your city income tax, which you can now use to drive anywhere you want during lunch! It's a win-win.

[casscorridor]

I disagree. It isn't walker, biker, or transit-friendly, doesn't have comprehensive services, and tends to be a 9-5 or weekend events environment. I do harp on the "Detroit isn't urban" meme, because it's true, and flies in the face of many of the assumptions here.

If it's critically important you live or work in an urban environment, Detroit, to me, is a very odd choice. It's like moving to Fairbanks for the warm weather.

Using your criteria for what qualifies as urban, it seems contradictory that you claimed suburban office centers are more urban than Downtown Detroit. It makes absolutely no sense.

While I agree with you that Detroit isn't exactly a destination for urbanism on the national level, in Metro Detroit, Downtown is about all we got outside a few tiny pockets that aren't even office centers but rather niche shopping/dining districts [[i.e. royal oak/birmingham).

And Downtown is not totally dead after 5. It's no New York or even Seattle, but there there is some activity. More than any given suburban office center at least!

[Hermod]

You can walk and bike all over the city. While the main drags might not be bike friendly, there will most often be a parallel road with little traffic a short block away. The only problem with walking and biking is the native wild life.

[poobert]

I disagree. It isn't walker, biker, or transit-friendly, doesn't have comprehensive services, and tends to be a 9-5 or weekend events environment. I do harp on the "Detroit isn't urban" meme, because it's true, and flies in the face of many of the assumptions here.

If it's critically important you live or work in an urban environment, Detroit, to me, is a very odd choice. It's like moving to Fairbanks for the warm weather.

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed downtown is king. The rest of the region is so mind-blowingly suburban that downtown Detroit looks like Manhattan by comparison, in terms of urbanity.

Still, I think you're still either hard-pressed or disingenuous to argue that the CBD itself is not urban. I mean, that's just kind of insane. The central business district is, what now, suburban? Rural?

[iheartthed]

Still, I think you're still either hard-pressed or disingenuous to argue that the CBD itself is not urban. I mean, that's just kind of insane. The central business district is, what now, suburban? Rural?

Yeah, I don't get it either. Downtown Detroit is as urban as any city I've ever seen. It's one of the largest urban cores in America [[top 10, maybe top 5) even if it is currently half abandoned.

[hortonz]

Unfortunately, downtown takes up only one square mile out of 140 that make up the boundaries of Detroit. And all the new investment doesn't change the fact that two-thirds of the city is abandoned and it's only getting worse. Factor in crime, the city's financial problems and the lack of opportunities for Detroit's youth and you have to ask yourself: Does Dan Gilbert, Roger Penske or all the other movers and shakers really give a damn about the city?

[1953]

That seems really unfair, hortonz. Here's two reasons, among others, why: 1) Dan Gilbert is a businessman, who never said it was his goal to 'save' the city [[though the media has basically said so); and 2) Using a targeted approach to save the city doesn't mean you don't care about the rest of it, it just means you are strategic in your efforts.

[TexasT]

And Downtown is not totally dead after 5. It's no New York or even Seattle, but there there is some activity. More than any given suburban office center at least!

Exactly. I think I previously posted about 20-30 bars and restaurants downtown [[off the top of my head) that stay open well into the night. Someone is visiting them during those hours [[often, it's me!).

EDIT: Angelina's, Drive, Motor City Wine, Grand Foran, Buffalo Wild Wings, Texas de Brazil, Hard Rock Cafe, Skybar Lounge, London Chop House, Roast, Detroit Beer Company, Small Plates, Vicente's Cuban, 24 Grille, Cliff Bells, Bucharest Grill, Park Bar, Bookies, Centaur, Coach Insignia, Coaches Corner, Hockeytown, Fountain Bistro, Detroit Seafood Market, Rub Pub, Dirty Trick, Andiamo's...I'm sure there's more but that's just ones I've been to or are going to soon.

[Spartan]

Exactly. I think I previously posted about 20-30 bars and restaurants downtown [[off the top of my head) that stay open well into the night. Someone is visiting them during those hours [[often, it's me!).

EDIT: Angelina's, Drive, Motor City Wine, Grand Foran, Buffalo Wild Wings, Texas de Brazil, Hard Rock Cafe, Skybar Lounge, London Chop House, Roast, Detroit Beer Company, Small Plates, Vicente's Cuban, 24 Grille, Cliff Bells, Bucharest Grill, Park Bar, Bookies, Centaur, Coach Insignia, Coaches Corner, Hockeytown, Fountain Bistro, Detroit Seafood Market, Rub Pub, Dirty Trick, Andiamo's...I'm sure there's more but that's just ones I've been to or are going to soon.

Yeah, there are about 130 bars/restaurants in downtown Detroit, pretty much all of which are open until at least 8. Most of them are open until at least 10, if not later, 7 nights a week. And that's just bars/restaurants. There are tons of concert venues, theaters, sporting events, etc. Yeah, it is much more active during the work day, but it's not like everyone flees the city as soon as the clock strikes 5-6.

[wolverine]

Unfortunately, downtown takes up only one square mile out of 140 that make up the boundaries of Detroit. And all the new investment doesn't change the fact that two-thirds of the city is abandoned and it's only getting worse. Factor in crime, the city's financial problems and the lack of opportunities for Detroit's youth and you have to ask yourself: Does Dan Gilbert, Roger Penske or all the other movers and shakers really give a damn about the city?

I think you are being extremely unfair. Many areas of Detroit are a horrible investment. You either make very concentrated efforts where you know your investment will have a big return. Spreading all that money around would have such a marginal effect, no one would ever notice.

Let neighborhood improvements be spearheaded by the people that actually live in those neighborhoods. Let me tell you how.
1. Form neighborhood block clubs.
2. Work with police or local city leaders in that area to address problems
3. Work with non-profits to attract projects or funds to make neighborhood improvements.


Perhaps Detroit's businessmen make funds available for neighborhood programs. But citizens must organize to take advantage of that. They can't just sit back and say "Well Person X should invest in my neighborhood instead of downtown!"

[jaytheory]

Free space for a year or reduced price per sqft,Bedrock contracts,being around positive energy creates positive results,most of the design work will be in downtown and surrounding in the coming years so it is wise to get ones foot in the door now.

Lots of reasons, not sure on the poaching aspect because at first the suburbs were supposed to be the escape from the city and not bring the work there, you went into the city to work and home in the burbs to relax , the concept got lost in the shuffle somewhere.

bedroom communities are a thing of the past, Burbs are dying in growing areas and cities are growing, the opposite can be said for dying regions like Detroit Cleveland, etc. the suburbs are growing, usually at the loss of the city. Donut hole problem. it wcant last for ever fill the whole or you get collapse

[jaytheory]

you are 100% correct. Local people need to control their destiny, problem is they have no resources.

And all Detroit neighborhoods are not created diff. there are a number of stable places.

[gameguy56]

bedroom communities are a thing of the past, Burbs are dying in growing areas and cities are growing, the opposite can be said for dying regions like Detroit Cleveland, etc. the suburbs are growing, usually at the loss of the city. Donut hole problem. it wcant last for ever fill the whole or you get collapse

Even Cleveland at least has stable neighborhoods with functioning business districts. Detroit desperately needs something like Ohio City or Gordon Square.