Big Brother is watching you -- New Security Cameras in Downtown Detroit

[RO_Resident]

I call bullshit on the so-called traffic cameras...being 'only' for flow control. IF that were the case, the timing for these lights would be DIFFERENT than those without 'em. They are not...at least not any in the city. They continue to use the old relay switches for timing changes.

In Detroit, the timing of signals is only changed for special events. There isn't a dynamic system like in Oakland County.

Plus, the first implementation of these was along Rochester Road in Troy. Despite the first week totally screwing up traffic, since they were not calibrated properly, they worked for a full year before the story in the Oakland Press reporting how many individuals the police were able to catch because of image recognition, such at someone with a handgun on their dashboard.

This after the authorities repeatedly said, during the sales and installation and implementation, that they would 'only' be used for flow control...just like MikeM repeated above. Then again, he does drone that all cloud-lines drawn in the sky are merely contrails. Still.

Cheers!

Bullshit. The Autoscope cameras used as traffic sensors have no ability to pan, tilt, or zoom. The image was [[and probably still is) processed at the intersection. The Oakland Traffic Operations Center did not have the ability to get the camera feed to the Ops center even if they wanted to.

It has been 5 or so years since I worked with the road commission on signal stuff. Things may have changed since then, but I doubt it based on the bandwidth needs of even VGA signals given the ~1,000 locations that have dynamic signals.

[MikeM]

RO Resident, don't waste your time. We've explained this to Gannon before, but like most conspiracy theorists, his version of reality is the only valid one.

[Gistok]

Gannon... a handgun on the dashboard? Really??

And how does one correlated the stupidity of someone having a handgun on their dashboard... to being the reason that they were arrested because of a traffic camera? Couldn't it have been because someone in another vehicle driving alongside may have seen the handgun and called 911?? Or maybe a cop saw someone with a handgun on the dashboard?

Anyone with the low intelligence of having a handgun on their dashboard probably doesn't have the smarts of connecting the dots to a traffic camera...

[Cliffy]

Gannon... a handgun on the dashboard? Really??

And how does one correlated the stupidity of someone having a handgun on their dashboard... to being the reason that they were arrested because of a traffic camera? Couldn't it have been because someone in another vehicle driving alongside may have seen the handgun and called 911?? Or maybe a cop saw someone with a handgun on the dashboard?

Anyone with the low intelligence of having a handgun on their dashboard probably doesn't have the smarts of connecting the dots to a traffic camera...

http://juneauempire.com/stories/0826...00572187.shtml

This is a good article. I've overseen the installation of these. This whole thing about video being sent to the police and guns being detected on dashboards is ridiculous.

[Gistok]

During the night... at 11 Mile Rd. at I-94... the 11 Mile Rd. light stays green virtually all the time... with the pedestrian traffic timer counting down the seconds [[until red light) over and over and over again... but still keeping the light for 11 Mile at green. Only when a car comes off the I-94 ramp does the light count down and actually change to red for 11 Mile Rd. traffic.

This is all handled by the motion detection sensors mounted on nearby poles.

[wolverine]

I think you have it backwards. Why can't footage be easily available? Why wait for creepy stalkers? The city should upload it themselves -- with a decent delay, perhaps 24 hours or more. Or maybe a random delay so its harder to use. A face/body fuzzyout is a thought. Use the technology. What happens on public streets is already quite public. Making it a little bit more public will help.

I'm pretty sure you have it backwards. First Gannon mentions that there could be abuse of the system. Yes, there is. it's happened with the occasional corrupt city employee that's [[attempted) to wipe out footage that became publicly available.

But now you are asking city government to actively manipulate live footage? Yes, delaying footage 24 hours and fuzzing out faces is altering footage. So what is it? First you advocate for transparency, now you want government to delay and alter live cameras feeds?

What's wrong with the current method of obtaining footage. You call the police department and ask for it. Cite a reason, they take down your name and send you an email with the link to footage in the time period requested.

I'm stumped by the fact that people on one hand are afraid of big brother watching street cameras....which they hardly have the resources to do, but are totally okay with a large population of people with a handful of creeps and thieves that could survey whenever a person leaves their home.

[wolverine]

This is all handled by the motion detection sensors mounted on nearby poles.

Not for civillian vehicles. It's controlled by demand actuated induction loops under the roads. The sensors on light poles are special for emergency vehicles which your own car cannot trigger.

[Gistok]

Not for civillian vehicles. It's controlled by demand actuated induction loops under the roads. The sensors on light poles are special for emergency vehicles which your own car cannot trigger.

Thanks for that clarification... I had forgotten about the needs of emergency vehicles. A good feature that reduces the issue of emergency vehicles going thru a red light...

[Wesley Mouch]

I'm pretty sure you have it backwards. First Gannon mentions that there could be abuse of the system. Yes, there is. it's happened with the occasional corrupt city employee that's [[attempted) to wipe out footage that became publicly available.

But now you are asking city government to actively manipulate live footage? Yes, delaying footage 24 hours and fuzzing out faces is altering footage. So what is it? First you advocate for transparency, now you want government to delay and alter live cameras feeds?

What's wrong with the current method of obtaining footage. You call the police department and ask for it. Cite a reason, they take down your name and send you an email with the link to footage in the time period requested.

I'm stumped by the fact that people on one hand are afraid of big brother watching street cameras....which they hardly have the resources to do, but are totally okay with a large population of people with a handful of creeps and thieves that could survey whenever a person leaves their home.

I'm OK with the current method you describe as well. Delay and fuzzing out is not necessarily 'altering feeds'. If you're using black-box hardware intended for this purpose to do both these functions, there's no opportunity for 'manipulation'. Its is automated and dispassionate. Could a rogue employee 'break' the machine? Sure. They could just 'unplug' the machine. But a good, well-designed piece of hardware would give 99% of the result for 1% of the cost.

The exact methods aren't important. What's important is that the feeds are widely available with as little human intervention as possible.

Your method is OK, but I'm sure you see the opportunity for it to be manipulated. Oh, we don't have that footage. Oh, here's that footage, but its my version I created in my basement that doesn't show the cop beating the old lady.

[Gannon]

I'm only remembering the article from the Oakland Press. It was a while ago...but I can remember the household I was working in. Herb Misch's daughter and son-in-law...back when that great gent was still alive, which puts it prior to 2003.

The article said the police were aided by the traffic flow cameras on Rochester Road, and there was image recognition used to filter what was fed to them.

This was long before I'd gathered enough experience and data to become a dyed-in-the-koolaid Conspiracy Theorist...but I'd add this to a long list of things which have caused me to seriously doubt most official cover stories now.

And, just because someone can 'guarantee' that one series of installed devices isn't available for this sort of surveillance...doesn't mean they all are benign.

I can just as easily show one that has obvious extra-traffic purposes. Say...like this one at Warren and Dickerson. I pass it nearly every day. Today I stopped to take a few snapshots of it.



There IS a pan-n-tilt mechanism, and it is the only one at the intersection. Not even the busiest one around, either. This one always bugs me.


Cheers

[jtf1972]

Good. Put them on every corner. Let's see who commits every single crime and where they go. Arrest them all. Inform people if they want to commit a crime, Detroit is not the place to do it.

Yeah, there is a "personal liberty" question. But I will gladly walk down a street, knowing I am being watched by "Big Brother," if it means we can track every criminal from a murderer to a thief to a vandal, and make this a safer city.

[townonenorth]

I'm only remembering the article from the Oakland Press. It was a while ago...but I can remember the household I was working in. Herb Misch's daughter and son-in-law...back when that great gent was still alive, which puts it prior to 2003.

The article said the police were aided by the traffic flow cameras on Rochester Road, and there was image recognition used to filter what was fed to them.

This was long before I'd gathered enough experience and data to become a dyed-in-the-koolaid Conspiracy Theorist...but I'd add this to a long list of things which have caused me to seriously doubt most official cover stories now.

And, just because someone can 'guarantee' that one series of installed devices isn't available for this sort of surveillance...doesn't mean they all are benign.

I can just as easily show one that has obvious extra-traffic purposes. Say...like this one at Warren and Dickerson. I pass it nearly every day. Today I stopped to take a few snapshots of it.



There IS a pan-n-tilt mechanism, and it is the only one at the intersection. Not even the busiest one around, either. This one always bugs me.


Cheers

That's because it's there to track you, specifically. Why else would they put it there? You pass it every day, and they are logging your movements, obviously. i'd take another route if I were you.

[Gannon]

That's because it's there to track you, specifically. Why else would they put it there? You pass it every day, and they are logging your movements, obviously. i'd take another route if I were you.

Nice try. It is never facing the way I approach the intersection. When it moves as I make my way through, then I'll begin to be truly concerned. Then the games begin.



As for YOU, jtf, did you know one of our founding fathers had something specific to say about those like you?! You might want to pay attention to this.

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

Benjamin Franklin, 1755

That wisdom still applies. To you, and everyone who has been conditioned and programmed and worn down to accept the premise that anyone deserves to live in a police state.

Good luck with that.


Sincerely,
John

[Honky Tonk]

Nice try. It is never facing the way I approach the intersection. When it moves as I make my way through, then I'll begin to be truly concerned. Then the games begin.



As for YOU, jtf, did you know one of our founding fathers had something specific to say about those like you?! You might want to pay attention to this.



Benjamin Franklin, 1755

That wisdom still applies. To you, and everyone who has been conditioned and programmed and worn down to accept the premise that anyone deserves to live in a police state.

Good luck with that.


Sincerely,
John

Whether they're actually monitoring traffic, or observing people and keeping tabs on them, no one knows for sure. But I do know one thing, my tin foil hat stops them from reading my brain waves.

[MikeM]

I'm only remembering the article from the Oakland Press. It was a while ago...but I can remember the household I was working in. Herb Misch's daughter and son-in-law...back when that great gent was still alive, which puts it prior to 2003.

The article said the police were aided by the traffic flow cameras on Rochester Road, and there was image recognition used to filter what was fed to them.

This was long before I'd gathered enough experience and data to become a dyed-in-the-koolaid Conspiracy Theorist...but I'd add this to a long list of things which have caused me to seriously doubt most official cover stories now.

And, just because someone can 'guarantee' that one series of installed devices isn't available for this sort of surveillance...doesn't mean they all are benign.

I can just as easily show one that has obvious extra-traffic purposes. Say...like this one at Warren and Dickerson. I pass it nearly every day. Today I stopped to take a few snapshots of it.



There IS a pan-n-tilt mechanism, and it is the only one at the intersection. Not even the busiest one around, either. This one always bugs me.


Cheers

Those are visual cameras and I know Macomb County sheriffs can access them. Not sure about the other counties. There aren't many of them, though, compared to the traffic sensors in the picture I posted.

[Gannon]

Those are visual cameras and I know Macomb County sheriffs can access them. Not sure about the other counties. There aren't many of them, though, compared to the traffic sensors in the picture I posted.

Thanks, MikeM. I shudder to think of this being used by Hackel to track his political enemies, he is EXACTLY the type of megalomaniac who needs to be restricted from using this technology. Same with Napolean. Two of my favorite sheriff. Yeah, I know Hackel has gone up a notch...but he would still have access to this stuff.


The traffic sensing cameras use some form of capture, there are only so many ways to translate motion into electrical current useful for analysis in any shape. These sensors are usually in the form of a CCD chip, and software can use the output of it many ways. As long as there is a clear lens...there is NO telling what is behind it.

The whole system could be designed like our current internet/phone network nationwide, which has one apparent purpose to the public...yet another to those with the necessary security clearance to know. There is an entire parallel network which echoes the public digital traffic, and no reason why these systems cannot be made similarly.

In plain sight...this system has been introduced all over the country. Detroit is not the only town to have these cameras magically appear. They are largely not in the suburbs, though. I've read things about sophisticated cellular tracking systems as well, and always thought THAT was the reason for the phone giveaways during this administration.

All I'm saying is I've seen 'em go up, many in seemingly illogical places. In a land where there supposedly isn't any money to fund schools and other good societal programs...it just doesn't make any sense whatsoever that there can be monies available for this bullshit.

Unless there is some overall plan...and any consideration of such leads to very dark places indeed.



Honky Tonk, I keep telling you...aluminum foil doesn't do much at all. If you want true filtering, get you some vintage TIN foil...or invest in the real stuff, MU Metal. It seems to form better without rampant wrinkling, too. You'll be stylin' and profilin' in no time. Without that pesky cranial electromagnetic interference.


Cheers!

[Honky Tonk]

Honky Tonk, I keep telling you...aluminum foil doesn't do much at all. If you want true filtering, get you some vintage TIN foil...or invest in the real stuff, MU Metal. It seems to form better without rampant wrinkling, too. You'll be stylin' and profilin' in no time. Without that pesky cranial electromagnetic interference.


Cheers!

You must be reading my mind.....

[Danny]

I have seen those new cameras. There are aslo well hidden ones, too. It will help catch all the yahoos runnning about in Downtown Detroit.

[daddeeo]

They need to get better cameras because half the time a mother wouldn't recognize the pictures of criminals they show on TV after a shooting or robbery.

[Gannon]

They need to get better cameras because half the time a mother wouldn't recognize the pictures of criminals they show on TV after a shooting or robbery.

Or worse yet, turn in their own son because they thought they DID recognize him...when in reality it was some white punk wearing a mask that was clearly based on boxer Mike Tyson's mug.

The day that hit the news, the Drudge Report had a picture of the mask AND one of Mike Tyson in unrelated news...and other than the tattoo, it was obvious the mask was of his face.



I'm on both sides of this...cameras ARE handy when they catch someone doing something clearly illegal and harmful and destructive, but they become weapons in the wrong hands if aimed at others instead.

So, while I agree with the need for greater resolution in the devices, we also need better ethics and transparency over their use.

I say total transparency. Let everyone tap into every camera at any time. But keep a record of who does what when, so stalking and premeditation of crimes can also be proven. Let that all be crowd-sourced and operated. Each police feed would only be redacted when they have an active warrant, and only for the duration of that warrant.

Bring it on, then. With everything public, nothing could be deleted. Hell, let my dashcam link to a service where I could send tickets to those who are observed doing something stupid and dangerous on the road. Let me get some of the take....


...and of course, hopefully nobody is watching MY driving. That might narrow the profit margin a wee bit.

[Jimaz]

The Free Press has a story today about e-coli contamination at a Traverse City beach.

... storm drain cameras spotted hundreds of pounds of raccoon feces at the site.

1. I hope those cameras aren't dedicated to just watching storm drains.
2. Hundreds of pounds of raccoon feces?! Yikes!

[Chinman]

i am kind of sure the cameras are for DOT and the antennas are for emergency vehicles that can change the light to GREEN to facilitate fast response.

[Richard]

What about the drones flying above the city that can tell if your zipper is down.

My friend in London had a few to many and needed to relive himself , not being in Midtown US, he ducked down a dark ally behind a dumpster , it was dark but before he was finished there was two policeman standing behind him,even in dark ally ways there are pesky night vision cams.

Where I am at emergency vehicles have a strob and there is a blue light that looks like the old time insulators on the traffic light,the strob activates the light change,used to be at night time you could flash a led light at the blue light and change the light to green now it is strobe only.

[Urban Pheasant]

They are definately busting people for pissing Downtown, which is awesome.

Uh, i wasn't talking about traffic light cameras. It is an interesting topic of discussion tho. Thank you Mr. Gannon. I am talking about cameras that are stacked on cameras on top of cameras downtown. It's pretty noticeable. I'm wondering if they would edit the footage of my escapades downtown into one hollywood blockbuster called "Wasn't Me". I prefer hoodies and sunglasses to aluminum foil. Just because you're paranoid, don't mean their not after you.

I believe that the rumors of DG's security bunker to be very true. It's in a sub basement of his building that was formerly a bank vault with a story and a half wall of cameras linked to the furthest reaches of the city and ex government security agents manning them. He has the sheriffs to back up his security team. The present WCS Benny, is running for mayor, who might be a good choice. This is an interesting twist. He also pulled a high ranking state police official out of retirement to help him hold it down. They can track you for several miles. It's a safe bet they have read this before you have... A private entity not only mans the cameras, but has a three tier security team in place to protect private property with more resources than the local police. I'm not really upset about this because I know how things can work, but damn. I will miss the bums, like Radio below.
@downtowndude- looks like we have something to talk about over limp bacon, and jam.
Check this link out..http://www.aclu.org/technology-and-l...o-surveillance
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[Gannon]

Nice. Thanks, UrbanPheasant.

I guess I didn't piss the OverLord off too much then.

But he's collecting a nice record of his employees littering and their rides illegally parking that we can get subpoena'd, the city would collect a nice bundle from those fines alone.

Time to view the area with infrared-sensing goggles to see exactly where any auto-focus cameras are able to point. I think the GenI nightvision tools and that old Sony videocamera that can see through clothes might come in handy as well. Heh.


What was that about the Macomb County sheriff having access to some cameras?! Put that into the hands of a barely-elected Wayne County badge-holder in cahoots with whomever financed their election...back it with another well-backed mayor and their police chief. We're straight into Big Brother City.

Next step, Omnicorp co-opts the RoboCop statue with the real thing. Updates it with a ridiculous kindergarten color scheme. The rest we've already seen...and there is apparently a remake being planned for next year. Perhaps they're going to film it in real time, this would be one production the governor would really get behind.