Has anyone ever held LBP's nose to the grindstone regarding Pontiac?

[Bham1982]

The more you write, the more you expose how shallow and naive you really are.

Why do there even NEED to be "low-income" neighborhoods? Are poorer people not worthy enough to live in "regular" neighborhoods? And must you go out of your way to cordon off an area in which The Poors are allowed to live and fend for scraps? .

Obviously, no, we don't need low income neighborhoods, but we do need low income housing. There are two ways to provide this, via subsidies, or via the market. If you don't want a market solution, then you want a non-market one, which in the U.S. framework means public housing and Section 8 in more affluent communities. This is a non-starter locally, so, no. Never going to happen.

Nobody ever discussed turning Pontiac into Royal Oak. Well, nobody except you. Such a thing is wholly unnecessary. But since you are clearly only aware of two possible urban environments [[POOR and CHAIN D'BAG), I don't expect you'd understand what a decent, modest, blue-collar neighborhood looks like. Or the fact that even worker bees like nice things too.

No one is talking corporate gentrification of Pontiac...except you.

No, the thread starter proposed turning Pontiac into Royal Oak. I'm obviously responding to the thread topic, not someone's unstated thoughts. And Pontiac is already semi-decent and blue collar in the northern parts. If you made it more decent, you would make it less affordable, so there's your choice.

[Gistok]

Mt. Clemens is a dump and barely in better shape than Pontiac.

You've got to be joking!!

Although M-59 sucked the life force out of the retail district in the downtown area... Mt. Clemens is MUCH better than Pontiac... For one thing IT LOOKS like a county seat... with the county offices clustered in the city center. Whereas Pontiac has a suburban sprawl type campus of county offices on the city fringe. One would never guess that Pontiac was a county seat.

Also Mt. Clemens has a very large collection Victorian homes, remnants of its' 19th Century heyday.

[Bham1982]

Also Mt. Clemens has a very large collection Victorian homes, remnants of its' 19th Century heyday.

Pontiac actually has one very nice neighborhood, but it, too, has fallen on hard times. On the West Side of Pontiac, there's an area called Indian Village or something [[all Indian-named streets) and the neighborhood homes look beautiful, even today. The rest of the city, though, no. East Side, in particular, is terrible.

[DTWflyer]

Pontiac is a perfect-storm of the following:
- Poor planning - Wide Track, Burying the Clinton River
- Mis-guided developments - Pontiac Plan, Phoenix Center, Silverdome, Bloomfield Park, Oakland County offices on Telegraph
- Inept city leaders
- Corporate downsizing/globalization/failed leadership - GM
- No money, dwindling tax base

[DTWflyer]

http://dondavidson.blogspot.com/

Intesting stuff about Pontiac's past.

[jackie5275]

Pontiac, BTW, was never that urban. It was mostly thrown up on the cheap in the early 20th century, with simple working class housing, to serve auto workers.

You must have been sleeping in history class this time. Actually, Pontiac was first settled in 1818. It was recognized as a village by the Michigan legislature in 1837. It was officially incorporated as a city in 1861. It wasn't just some place thrown together to provide housing for the GM bus & truck plant.

[Danny]

L.B. Patterson is always ignore Pontiac because of its African American community presence. He also ignores Royal Oak TWP, Oak Park, Lathrup Village and Southfield,too. He will discuss about it on local or national media until the time is right.

[rb336]

He's been leading Oakland County for over 20 years, so he was here for much of the growth and prosperity.

The last 20 years aren't "much of the growth and prosperity" for Oakland County. At all. What is positive that he has done? Novi may have grown, but at the expense of housing prices in West Bloomfield, then again, that started in the late 70s-80s. OC Is still the wealthiest county in Michigan. Pre-LBP, it was in the top ten nationwide. It isn't anymore. He was supportive of that catastrophe on Telegraph. at least at one point. He maintains his position by being divisive.

[Bham1982]

You must have been sleeping in history class this time. Actually, Pontiac was first settled in 1818. It was recognized as a village by the Michigan legislature in 1837. It was officially incorporated as a city in 1861. It wasn't just some place thrown together to provide housing for the GM bus & truck plant.

Gee, thanks for the [[off topic) history lesson. I don't care if Pontiac was founded before Rome, it doesn't make it an old city. The fact is that was a little town until the auto industry boom, and therefore doesn't have the historic fabric you see in Detroit within the Boulevard or other cities with 19th century heritage. it's overwhelmingly modest wood-framed worker housing.

[Bham1982]

The last 20 years aren't "much of the growth and prosperity" for Oakland County.

Compared to the past, you're right that Oakland growth has slowed down [[which makes sense, given it's more built out now) but compared to the other local counties, I disagree, and Oakland is a big outperformer. Oakland County, per the Census, has the fastest population growth among the Metro Detroit counties. It ranks #1 on most metrics, and has the highest possible bond rating. Brooks may be an ass, but he knows how to run the county.

[DetroitPlanner]

Per the Census you will find Macomb and Livingston far surpass the growth rates of Oakland. The only metric Oakland beats the others on is on rich folks.

[rb336]

Compared to the past, you're right that Oakland growth has slowed down [[which makes sense, given it's more built out now) but compared to the other local counties, I disagree, and Oakland is a big outperformer. Oakland County, per the Census, has the fastest population growth among the Metro Detroit counties. It ranks #1 on most metrics, and has the highest possible bond rating. Brooks may be an ass, but he knows how to run the county.

helps when you walk in to the wealthiest county in the state. A monkey could do brook's job

[nain rouge]

Although M-59 sucked the life force out of the retail district in the downtown area... Mt. Clemens is MUCH better than Pontiac... For one thing IT LOOKS like a county seat... with the county offices clustered in the city center. Whereas Pontiac has a suburban sprawl type campus of county offices on the city fringe. One would never guess that Pontiac was a county seat.

I do a lot of exploring on foot - that's how you get the best feel for an area - and I agree that Mt. Clemens is far and away in better shape than Pontiac. Mt. Clemens worst neighborhoods are equal to or better than Pontiac's best neighborhoods. In Mt. Clemens, I can walk into any of the neighborhoods right outside of downtown and feel perfectly safe [[Mt. Clemens is actual below the state average for violent crime - property crime is by far the main problem). In Pontiac, walking out of the Woodward loop is like asking for trouble. Addicts and dealers start circling like vultures. It's about as bad as I've experienced in Michigan, and that includes Detroit, Saginaw, Flint, and etc. In fact, I would walk through Carriage Town in Flint a hundred times over before I'd bother walking outside of the Woodward Loop in Pontiac.

Now, Pontiac does get better as you hit the outskirts [[I actually know someone that lives in Pontiac's Indian Village, and it's pretty nice still), but man is the historic core a mess. And all the abandoned schools, factories, and strip malls - Mt. Clemens has nothing like that.

I will say that Mt. Clemens downtown is going through a rough patch. Partridge Creek was like a knife to its heart, and now they're even taking away the Stars & Stripes Festival [[and putting it in Sterling Heights...). Before that, it was actually a pretty lively place. Supposedly, though, there is some serious investments going into the Emerald Theatre and a couple other spots in Mt. Clemens. Hopefully it'll bounce back.