African Americans Need to Stop Shopping Where They're Disrespected

**Zacha341** · May-02-13, 10:27 PM

I hear you, but there is a 'Captive Audience' factor I've not seen discussed so far. Captive in as much as some of these stores deep-in-the-hood are incredibly rude; especially to those who they KNOW have no other choice but to patronize them [[the just and well 'er the unjust)! This mostly due to inability to drive or otherwise find transpo to get out to better stores and merchants with reasonable services where they can be found.

Case in point: I was at a fairly large grocer on Davison between Linwood and Dexter and I needed to talk to the manager about a price discrepancy -- denied by the cashier -- my first line of attempt to resolution. Cursing and 'going off' is not my default position, yet the manager really talked down to me, harshly questioning my gall to even challenge what I pointed out as simple check-out error... I remained calm which seemed to throw him off his poised-for-drama presentation. From this I demanded my money back for the 'entire' cart of food, reminding him that I was not 'captive' to his store -- surprisingly he refunding my order fast!

I got out of there and drove elsewhere... for my purchase. His store bouncer could do nothing more than 'shrug' embarrassed as I never raised my voice. Just to get the last word, and argue the owner lost a sale and a customer for good. Bye!

Now imagine an elder, or people living nearby, who cannot go elsewhere. They can be talked to any kind of way with impunity... this is a factor in the whole issue of respect and common courtesy that is far too uncommon with some merchants who make their living within the city.

Perhaps that is why we don't just stop going to the store. Fewer options!

Originally Posted by 48091

If there's a racist clerk that's always rude to black people, and black people stopped shopping there, it would really cut into his bottom line, especially in Detroit where the population is mostly black.

The advice also goes beyond race lines in that if the clerk was rude to everyone, and everyone followed the advice of the article, the place would simply go out of business.

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · May-02-13, 10:48 PM

You could take your reusable canvas bag to the store with you, as so many of us here in San Francisco do. Especially now that the stores are required to charge 10 cents per bag.

**aj3647** · May-02-13, 11:07 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Seriously, it is super-fucked-up that if you want to have a conversation about good old American white-on-black racism

Was the clerk in the story even white, or did you just assume that? Well gee, if he was racist, then he MUST have been white because all white people are racist and all racist people are white! Obviously there's no chance that the clerk could have been of Middle-Eastern decent, because all party stores on the East Side are staffed by white people.

**mwilbert** · May-02-13, 11:25 PM

People who see racism everywhere are just as blinkered as people who don't see racism anywhere. If Mr. Dawsey felt he was not being treated properly, that's how he felt, and arguably we can say that is true, because in this context in some sense the customer is always right. If he felt that treatment had a racist cause, that's also how he felt, but based upon the article we really have no way to be sure whether that is true or not, and probably he doesn't either.

I think the title of the thread has the correct idea, which is that people shouldn't shop where they aren't treated the way they want to be. But it is also true there aren't always good alternatives, and so people have to figure out how much they want to inconvenience themselves on principle.

**MSUguy** · May-02-13, 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by Det_ard

You apparently have fallen into the same trap as Dawsey. Because racist incidents occur, even incidents with NO racial overtones or even apparent undertones must nonetheless be race related.

Isn't it possible that poor service was received because that's what that store does? To every one? Regardless of race?

If that's even conceivable, which any reasonable person will agree it is, why defend the assumption that the poor service was because of race? I thought we had too many race-based assumptions already.

If a customer acts like an ass, should a store owner assume it's because they're an asshole, or should they jump to the racial conclusion that you and Dawsey do, that it's due to their race.

No trap. The racist treatment of Detroiters by these store owners is not as uncommon as you'd like to think, there is reason why this is sore point for many Detroiters. It's happened to me a few times and to some friends as well. Maybe you reconsider that people like Dawsey are speaking from a place of knowledge and just don't have misplaced anger.

I agree with what others are saying, that a lot this stems from the captive audience that these store owners have in Detroit. If you're poor and don't have a car, your options to shop elsewhere might be very limited.

**softailrider** · May-03-13, 01:21 AM

I'm white, been living/working in Detroit for 50 years, I've probably made hundreds of visits to crappy Chaldeon party stores. If you ask them for a bag, they give you a bag. I don't remember them bagging the stuff for me, I never asked them to do that either. Who gives a shit who puts whatever in the bag? I honestly never really though about it. I'm sorry I'm thinking it now.

**Honky Tonk** · May-03-13, 04:30 AM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

How do you watch that stuff? Doesn't the hood get in your eyes too often?

The only "hood" over my eyes, is the one you forcibly insist on putting there. You're like a broken record with your posts 'Nerd. I was actually surprised you didn't post your tired-ass old photo over on the I-375 thread. In your eyes, as near-sighted as they are, I'm sure the KKK had SOMETHING to do with that freeway being built. "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

**sumas** · May-03-13, 05:36 AM

No body should patronize rude stores. I do have one comment however. We do have one local grocery store we patronize. It is Arabic owned and most, not all, employees are Arabic. The patrons are not Arabic. I am always a little uncomfortable when the cashiers chat/speak their language. I like the store so I never commented.

I was a little surprised yesterday when the head cashier told the other cashiers, "speak in english".Someone must have complained. I like the store its staff and prices but must admit it would be nice if they stuck to English in the work place.

**sumas** · May-03-13, 05:49 AM

As a Detroiter with a car, I have many options for good fresh affordable food. Many Detroiters do not drive and are stuck with local liquor stores/gas stations for expensive groceries.

As a white old lady, I am accorded some respect but I certainly see that black customers are treated very rudely. Racism is alive and well at least by Arabs.

Then of course am I making a racist comment about Arabs??

**coracle** · May-03-13, 06:01 AM

You shouldn't have expectations of good Customer Service when you enter a store that needs an encapsulating plexiglass wall to protect the clerk from customers? You're shopping in the wrong spot. If you get out with just a tad of rudeness mark it up as a win.

**p69rrh51** · May-03-13, 06:31 AM

Originally Posted by 313WX

I'm not sure why that surprises you.

Aside from the blip in the mid-late 90s, this region has a been in a virtual economic depression for the last 30 years. That has caused everyone around here to become penny pinchers.

I am not surprised at all. As for the last 30 years the region has not been in a depression. The city yes but not the region. As for bags I only see this in the city proper and I never see that outside of the CoD. As for the stores themselves with the profits they make they can afford to give out bags and to fill them for the customer, they are just lazy.

**313WX** · May-03-13, 06:58 AM

Originally Posted by p69rrh51

I am not surprised at all. As for the last 30 years the region has not been in a depression. The city yes but not the region.

Well I hear a lot of locals say that Michigan's been in a one-state recession since the early 2000s [[long before the bottom fell out everywhere else), and even after the big recession that began in the late 1970s, unemployment never fell below 7% through the early 1990s.

The region has been much healthier in comparison to Detroit proper, but certainly not economically prosperous.

**Honky Tonk** · May-03-13, 07:08 AM

Originally Posted by mwilbert

People who see racism everywhere are just as blinkered as people who don't see racism anywhere. If Mr. Dawsey felt he was not being treated properly, that's how he felt, and arguably we can say that is true, because in this context in some sense the customer is always right. If he felt that treatment had a racist cause, that's also how he felt, but based upon the article we really have no way to be sure whether that is true or not, and probably he doesn't either.

I think the title of the thread has the correct idea, which is that people shouldn't shop where they aren't treated the way they want to be. But it is also true there aren't always good alternatives, and so people have to figure out how much they want to inconvenience themselves on principle.

Racism exists. It is on both sides of the fence. There are NO innocent parties as a whole. Ok? Now then, I've read a few articles by Mr. Dawsey, and to white me, they seem to be a bit slanted towards the racist angle. I'm not sure if he is given free reign to express his viewpoints, or if he is encouraged by DD to play up that angle to attract readers. I shop @ party stores and gas stations in my 'hood, [[as in neighborhood, not as in racist clothing accessory), usually to grab a beverage and a bag of chips when I'm on the go. On more then one occaision, the clerk either held a bag up in the air, behind the plexiglass, and yelled "bag?", having no intention of "bagging" my items himself, OR shoved the bag through the money slot @ me, again, having no intention of "bagging" my items himself. In Mr. Dawsey's case, he actually put his items on the carousel, and turned them around, which does makes the clerks intentions questionable. However, before we burn down the party store and lynch the clerk, maybe we should take a step back and take a look @ this scenario? IS the clerk a racist, or just a guy that's sick and tired of being locked in a plastic booth for hours, and expressing his displeasure with life in general? I mean, seriously folks, having been on both sides of that plastic wall, that job really does suck. How many times has Mr. Dawsey, in his own job, "not bagged" his co-workers items, because they asked him to make "just one more change" before press? I think people react too quickly, and draw the racist sabre way too many times before looking @ all the facts.

**p69rrh51** · May-03-13, 07:20 AM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Well I hear a lot of locals say that Michigan's been in a one-state recession since the early 2000s [[long before the bottom fell out everywhere else), and even after the big recession that began in the late 1970s, unemployment never fell below 7% through the early 1990s.

The region has been much healthier in comparison to Detroit proper, but certainly not economically prosperous.

From the end of the early 80's recession until the meltdown around 2008 I saw things quite differently. Most everyone I know or was involved with made lots of money and were well beyond quite prosperous. I have a feeling its where you live and who you know.

**313WX** · May-03-13, 07:32 AM

Originally Posted by p69rrh51

From the end of the early 80's recession until the meltdown around 2008 I saw things quite differently. Most everyone I know or was involved with made lots of money and were well beyond quite prosperous. I have a feeling its where you live and who you know.

It's not just me and the people I know. All you have to do is Google search "Michigan's one-state recession" to find tons of articles [[including one fron the BBC) discussing it.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1723689/posts

I DO hear everyone speak uniformly about how good things were in the mid-late 90s, but that's about it.

**EASTSIDE CAT 67-83** · May-03-13, 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by Johnnny5

I'm sorry, but I think the entire story is just a bunch of whining. The guy is complaining that because he's black the cashier didn't automatically give him a bag?

That's how half of my transactions go at party stores and I'm a white guy out shopping in the exburbs. The difference is when I don't get a bag and would like one I politely ask "Can I please have a bag for that?" not stand there silent with a stupid look on my face and my hands in my pockets. That's another thing. Why have your hands in your pockets when you're in a store? If you don't want to look suspicious take your hands out of your pockets and don't assume that every cashier is a mind reader.

Now that being said, I totally agree with the title to this thread. If you think you are being disrespected by the owners or employees or of a store by all means go elsewhere. I learned a long time ago that you're rarely ever going to get anywhere complaining about lousy customer service. if you don't like the service go elsewhere. It's not like there's a shortage of party stores to choose from around Detroit.

Well said Johnnny 3 n's

**Zacha341** · May-03-13, 08:02 AM

Precisely. And I see both sides of it... I witness some black people refer to the store keepers as "Aye-Rabs" etc. and I see some Detroit merchants [[Arab, Caldean, Albanian, etc.) talk to elders like they are dumb children... or take alot of liberties in flirtation with young women etc.

Originally Posted by MSUguy

No trap. The racist treatment of Detroiters by these store owners is not as uncommon as you'd like to think, there is reason why this is sore point for many Detroiters. It's happened to me a few times and to some friends as well. Maybe you reconsider that people like Dawsey are speaking from a place of knowledge and just don't have misplaced anger.

I agree with what others are saying, that a lot this stems from the captive audience that these store owners have in Detroit. If you're poor and don't have a car, your options to shop elsewhere might be very limited.

**Wheels** · May-03-13, 09:23 AM

The real question here is why are there not more black owned stores gas stations etc. around Detroit. The Chaldean's came in just after the riots in the late 60s and have controlled almost all small business in Detroit ever since. Why?

**iheartthed** · May-03-13, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by Wheels

The real question here is why are there not more black owned stores gas stations etc. around Detroit. The Chaldean's came in just after the riots in the late 60s and have controlled almost all small business in Detroit ever since. Why?

Lack of access to capital is a huge factor.

**Wheels** · May-03-13, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Lack of access to capital is a huge factor.

With all the excessive wealth of the Pastors of Detroit who could be doing good for the community instead of building castles and dripping in gold? Not a good excuse.

**iheartthed** · May-03-13, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by Wheels

With all the excessive wealth of the Pastors of Detroit who could be doing good for the community instead of building castles and dripping in gold? Not a good excuse.

So you weren't looking for a serious discussion?

**Johnnny5** · May-03-13, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Lack of access to capital is a huge factor.

That's one of the biggest issues. In depressed urban areas it's just about impossible to get reasonably priced credit to purchase, operate or expand a store. The risks involved for the banks are huge, and they are not eager to get involved in businesses that deal mainly in cash. Most immigrant families make heavy use of backing from family members until they have enough equity and credit to get funding on their own. They then return the favor by loaning money and vouching for other family members so that they can do the same.

Another thing is that many of these people grew up working at their parents, grandparents or uncle's store. If they decide to get into the business for themselves they already have a lot of experience in most of the aspects of what it takes to do so successfully.

**jiminnm** · May-03-13, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by Wheels

The real question here is why are there not more black owned stores gas stations etc. around Detroit. The Chaldean's came in just after the riots in the late 60s and have controlled almost all small business in Detroit ever since. Why?

It is due, in part, to one man - Mike George.

http://www.georgeenterprises.com/ind...e-sr&Itemid=70

**Wesley Mouch** · May-03-13, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by Wheels

With all the excessive wealth of the Pastors of Detroit who could be doing good for the community instead of building castles and dripping in gold? Not a good excuse.

Good question, if politically incorrect. There is an important problem here. The churches are proof that the capital exists in the city. But its not available for business it seems.

Why?

**Detroitnerd** · May-03-13, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by aj3647

Was the clerk in the story even white, or did you just assume that? Well gee, if he was racist, then he MUST have been white because all white people are racist and all racist people are white! Obviously there's no chance that the clerk could have been of Middle-Eastern decent, because all party stores on the East Side are staffed by white people.

Middle-Eastern people are white. You did know that, didn't you?