Illitch secretly buying up properties, again.

[antongast]

Gistok, for someone who loves to insert the words "eminent domain" into every possible discussion, your idea of what it is and how it works seems remarkably hazy. It's a power of government, intended to be used to assemble land for public infrastructure. Because governments are beholden to deep-pocketed interests, this power came to be routinely abused in ways that favored the interests of wealthy private actors. Eminent domain has not been "banned." It still exists. The loophole that allowed it to be abused for purposes other than those for which it was intended has been closed, and rightly so.

I'm also confused by your usage of the word "gerrymander." Look it up.

[Gistok]

Gistok, for someone who loves to insert the words "eminent domain" into every possible discussion, your idea of what it is and how it works seems remarkably hazy. It's a power of government, intended to be used to assemble land for public infrastructure. Because governments are beholden to deep-pocketed interests, this power came to be routinely abused in ways that favored the interests of wealthy private actors. Eminent domain has not been "banned." It still exists. The loophole that allowed it to be abused for purposes other than those for which it was intended has been closed, and rightly so.

I'm also confused by your usage of the word "gerrymander." Look it up.

Ummm, yes I know what Gerrymandering is... and you'll likely see that the arena area footprint will not be a straight line like with the Stadia district... but likely cross individual parcels of land that are either included or excluded, based on ownership.

Yes I like to bring up Eminent Domain... because the lack thereof in this instance means that Mike Ilitch is buying up almost 2-3 times the land that he really needs... and that the resulting emptiness is the cause and effect of this [[as you like to call it) no longer available abused system. So rather than a compact area for the arena... we end up with a vast suburban sprawl... ... and not all of it under his control...

[Wesley Mouch]

Ummm, sorry you're having difficulty with "cause and effect"... but last time I checked we are discussing LAND PURCHASING... and now that deep-pocketed interests cannot use this process... they're taking their "deep-pockets"... and buying even more land and property... thus leaving a large wasteland in the west Foxtown and Midtown area.

So when you find reason to bitch about this... just keep in mind what the alternatives are or were...

So let me get this straight. Ilitch is using his money earned by selling pizza and by idiots who gamble, and he's giving that money to other people. Probably more than their buildings are worth. And they can use that money to provide more housing, should they so desire. And they might even build something better than the flophouses that infest that area. What is the problem?

If you don't like it, go write some reasonable zoning ordinances, or appropriate taxes on parking lots in the city to steer the market.

I too think Ilitch is misguided in many ways, but he's investing with his own money. He should do what YOU want?

And while I'm at it. He's 'secretly' investing? Some secret if its being discussed on this forum. Makes it sound like a plot. Its just sensible when you assemble property. Anyone who thinks their flea-pit is worth a million can hold out.

Kelo was a decent decision. The pendulum needed to swing back a bit. Eminent Domain was being abused in many cases. Now that using ED is more difficult, we will see more 'market' purchases.

[Gistok]

I agree that the Eminent Domain process was abused... moreso by the county and their plans for the Aerotropolis development near Metro Airport. But nowhere do I say what "I" want... just pointing out that the alternatives are sometimes worse... Had there been Eminent Domain... rental folks would likely have gotten moving/compensation money... and a reasonable time to find new places to live. Now... they get NOTHING...

[antongast]

Yes I like to bring up Eminent Domain... because the lack thereof in this instance means that Mike Ilitch is buying up almost 2-3 times the land that he really needs... and that the resulting emptiness is the cause and effect of this [[as you like to call it) no longer available abused system. So rather than a compact area for the arena... we end up with a vast suburban sprawl... ... and not all of it under his control...

I don't think that analysis is right. If Ilitch had unlimited condemnation powers and the ability to dictate purchase prices, he'd gobble up more land, not less. What mechanism would there be to stop him? Why should he want to stop of his own accord? That's why it's important not to give private actors the power to condemn land.

[Gistok]

I don't think that analysis is right. If Ilitch had unlimited condemnation powers and the ability to dictate purchase prices, he'd gobble up more land, not less. What mechanism would there be to stop him? Why should he want to stop of his own accord? That's why it's important not to give private actors the power to condemn land.

I don't remember Ilitch being the condemning party... it was the county. Granted he said how much land he needed... but when the county authority went too far... the court system told them so [[as with the Women's Exchange Building being saved via court action).

But with the process we have now... Ilitch will pretty much have carte blanche over what he wants to do...

I'm not saying Eminent Domain was good or fair... but I look at what is going on now [[vast land clearance)... as a not so good alternative...

[antongast]

I don't remember Ilitch being the condemning party... it was the county.

Yes, you are correct. Even under the worst, most ridiculously twisted reading of eminent domain law, Ilitch wouldn't have the power to directly condemn land himself. But if another entity is exercising the power on his behalf, and condemning land for the purpose of transferring it to him, it amounts to the same thing. That's why it's an abuse of the law.

But with the process we have now... Ilitch will pretty much have carte blanche over what he wants to do...

He has "carte blanche" no matter what, because he's rich, well-connected, and adept at gaming the political process in his favor, and because the people who are harmed by his actions are mostly poor minorities without a strong political voice. But it seems pretty obvious to me that his inability to take advantage of eminent domain restricts, rather than expands, his power. Otherwise he'd have just chosen to assemble the Comerica Park land on the private market rather than voluntarily submit to restrictions.

[antongast]

Kelo was a decent decision. The pendulum needed to swing back a bit. Eminent Domain was being abused in many cases. Now that using ED is more difficult, we will see more 'market' purchases.

Kelo actually upheld the practice of abusing eminent domain for private gain. The restrictions on eminent domain that apply to Ilitch in this case are at the state level, resulting from a 2006 ballot initiative to amend the state constitution. Most states have since enacted similar restrictions.

[JenniferL]

I never said it was a garden spot. I simply said that a lot of money was spent to upgrade the building just a few years ago. To those who live there, it may be the best they can do. Most of them are on very low incomes. Finding affordable housing with adequate public transportation and jobs nearby is going to be a daunting task.

I saw a woman on TV who had just moved into one of these buildings. She said she'll probably have to go back to the shelter.

I hope there's someone out there who can help these folks find a place to live. I noticed that the rents in the New Center area are still pretty low. Maybe some of them can relocate there?

[Spartan]

Is low-income housing really scarce in Detroit? If there was anything, I would think that would be it. Maybe not in as good a location though. It would be nice if the buyer helped people find a new place and give them a little more time [[maybe 60-90 days).

[Wesley Mouch]

Is low-income housing really scarce in Detroit? If there was anything, I would think that would be it. Maybe not in as good a location though. It would be nice if the buyer helped people find a new place and give them a little more time [[maybe 60-90 days).

Don't we pay for a Housing Authority and other government agencies to do this?

[antongast]

Don't we pay for a Housing Authority and other government agencies to do this?

Yep. We also pay for a police department, so I guess that takes care of the crime problem.

[downtownguy]

I love how everyone just assumes they are going to be demolished. No where does it say that is happening. They could just as easily be rehabbed and rented to higher income people [[true gentrification). I mean the Ilitch plan is to include residential.

I've been waiting nearly 25 years for the residential he proposed next to the Fox [[the Varney, the Blenheim and the Detroiter). Oh, and the Varney was demolished.

http://historicdetroit.org/building/...life-building/

[downtownguy]

The Neo-Savior did this to old folks on Washington Boulevard, too...I was going to start a thread on their displacement, but since I'm already viewed as an anti-Gilbert word-bully I thought the better of it.

But yeah, those who warn against gentrification are getting strong confirmations from these two...and now have many poster-people to help support their cause.

How can developers force these changes more responsibly?! Dumping the elderly, indigent, and the sick on the street most certainly is the opposite of that.

What an ugly start to the day...but then again, I don't have to uproot and move today.

John, my good friend, your constant Gilbert bashing across threads, no less, is making me weary. This thread is about Ilitch. I'll put Gilbert's record in the last, what, 2 years? up against Ilitch's 25 year record anyday.

[jaytheory]

yes the metro airport fiasco, health safety and welfare, or public use/operation, then you can take property all you want but it cant be taken by the government and given to the private entity, unless it fits the above criteria.

[Zacha341]

Yeah, I've just saw a similar article on Fox2Detroit:

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/22...old-in-detroit

The article mention Detroit Cab Company being sold as well.....

Nice scoop on the news gthomas.

If it looks like Ilitch, walks like Ilitch and quacks like Ilitch, it must be Ilitch. Too bad they didn't show more compassion for the residents, that by all accounts were paying their rents faithfully, yet are given only 30 days to vacate.

[Zacha341]

Very nice website. Thank you for sharing it....

I've been waiting nearly 25 years for the residential he proposed next to the Fox [[the Varney, the Blenheim and the Detroiter). Oh, and the Varney was demolished.

http://historicdetroit.org/building/...life-building/

[Zacha341]

Compelling points. Thanks.

I don't know what you mean by "this area is a garden spot." I don't know what a "garden spot" is. I live in this area. I think it's a pretty good place to live. I can't speak to the quality of individual buildings other than the one I live in; obviously, building management can make a huge difference with rentals, and if this guy cared so little about his tenants that he sold the buildings out from under them with no warning like that, I'm prepared to believe he was a shitty landlord in other respects as well. That said, people chose to live in these buildings, and are now angry about being booted, so it would seem that they found them preferable to the other available options.

[Zacha341]

I see Cass Technical HS in the background. Yes, this is prime real estate to move upon with little notice. Such is their lot some will argue...

Were it tad closer to WSU it be a great building with 'Dallying' in the back of the building late summers....hah!

This building and it's inhabitants are easy to dismiss due to their income and location.

That is the back of the building of course it is unimpressive.

[Gistok]

Waaaait a minute... that is not the Detroit School of the Arts... that is Cass Tech... one block west of these Apartments. The Detroit School of the Arts is 8 blocks north of here... closer to Woodward.

In this Google map... the site of old Cass Tech is still shown in the lower left, with new Cass Tech just above it. And just to the right of [[former) old Cass Tech are the apartment buildings in question...

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Henry...gl=us&t=h&z=16

How the hell can Ilitch put an arena on this site?? That's right he cannot! There is no friggin' way to fit an arena here with Cass Park just north of here.. and Cass & Clifford Ave's just due east of here. Both those streets are the western gateway from Downtown to Midtown, and I doubt very much that the city would entertain closing them [[at least not Cass).

So these apartments cannot be part of a footprint for the arena... just not possible. Part of the greater arena area... maybe... but not part of the actual footprint, since it's sort of sandwiched west of Cass.

So this makes even less sense for tearing down these apartments... especially in such a hurry.... unless getting rid of lower income housing in the area is part of the equation...

[Honky Tonk]

Waaaait a minute... that is not the Detroit School of the Arts... that is Cass Tech... one block west of these Apartments. The Detroit School of the Arts is 8 blocks north of here... closer to Woodward.

In this Google map... the site of old Cass Tech is still shown in the lower left, with new Cass Tech just above it. And just to the right of [[former) old Cass Tech are the apartment buildings in question...

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Henry...gl=us&t=h&z=16

How the hell can Ilitch put an arena on this site?? That's right he cannot! There is no friggin' way to fit an arena here with Cass Park just north of here.. and Cass & Clifford Ave's just due east of here. Both those streets are the western gateway from Downtown to Midtown, and I doubt very much that the city would entertain closing them [[at least not Cass).

So these apartments CANNOT be part of a footprint for the arena... just not possible. Part of the greater arena area... maybe... but not part of the actual footprint, since it's sort of sandwiched west of Cass.

Why in the world would you want to sandwich a major sports venue next to a high school anyway? I had a friend that owned a unit @ The Crosswinds for a few years. Everytime there was a game @ CP, the congestion was HELL around there, not to mention issues with people looking for "free" parking. There were also confrontations with Detroit's "boys in blue" crossing guards, trying to get in and out of the apartments. About the only place I could think of worse to live, would be Eastern Mark-Up.

[Zacha341]

I've corrected my post, it now says Cass Tech... Thanks.

Waaaait a minute... that is not the Detroit School of the Arts... that is Cass Tech... one block west of these Apartments. The Detroit School of the Arts is 8 blocks north of here... closer to Woodward ...

[Danny]

Illitch wants his new Little Caesar's Arena for the Red Wings. That is why he's buying properties from Foxtown to South Cass Corridor area.

[Richard]

He is useing DDA for tax capture to fund it ,so what is the closest area that has highest paying tax payers as you cannot do a tax capture on low income that does not pay taxes. That is who will be paying for it , think maybe they will show the boundaries of the proposed tax capture district?

I wonder if as a taxpayer one could ask the DDA where those little lines are drawn before it occurs ?

[rex]

We all know illitch has plans. Too bad this isn't an actual mystery developer with additional plans.