NY Times: A Missionary’s Quest to Remake Motor City?

[antongast]

So we've descending into a thread on Gilbert. Sad.

Even if you don't like the nature of his business, you should be able to look past this and see that he's doing good. He could be like Matty Maroun and just leech, but instead he's doing good. I'd like him to know that his efforts to make Detroit better are so very much appreciated by many people.

Gilbert is creating the future in Detroit. More like him is precisely what Detroit needs, and most here on this forum want.

Thanks, Dan.

Dan[[nycakes) is in the business of maximizing profits. Why on earth should he need validation from Joe Schmoe on the Internet? He does seem a little thin-skinned [[LeBron, anyone?), but geez.

[Gistok]

He does seem a little thin-skinned [[LeBron, anyone?), but geez.

Let me bring you up to speed....

"James drew immense criticism from sports analysts, executives, fans, and current and former players for leaving the Cavaliers. The Decision itself was also scrutinized and viewed as unnecessary. Many thought the prolonged wait for James' choice was unprofessional as not even the teams courting him were aware of his decision until moments before the show. Upon learning that James would not be returning to Cleveland, Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert published an open letter to fans in which he aggressively denounced James' actions. Some angry fans of the team recorded videos of themselves burning his jersey. Former NBA players including Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson were also critical of James, condemning him for joining with Bosh and Wade in Miami and not trying to win a championship as "the guy". James drew further criticism in a September interview with CNN when he claimed that race might have been a factor in the fallout from The Decision. As a result of his actions during the 2010 free agency period, James quickly gained a reputation as one of America's most disliked athletes, a radical change from years prior. The phrase "taking my talents to South Beach" became a punch line for critics

[Wesley Mouch]

Dan[[nycakes) is in the business of maximizing profits. Why on earth should he need validation from Joe Schmoe on the Internet? He does seem a little thin-skinned [[LeBron, anyone?), but geez.

Not trying to provide 'validation'. Was trying to steer chat towards the thread. Appears I failed.

Did just read the whole article again. Quote of Bing surprised me and told me why Bing is becoming hated by many here:

“My job,” said Dave Bing, the Detroit mayor and former National Basketball Association star, “is to knock down as many barriers as possible and get out of the way.”

Bing's sounding like my buddy John. I expect such from Galt, but not from Detroit's mayor. Someone needs to remind him that his job is to protect the status quo. Let's have none of that revolution lead by a guy from Cleveland.

[antongast]

Upon learning that James would not be returning to Cleveland, Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert published an open letter to fans in which he aggressively denounced James' actions.

[antongast]

Not trying to provide 'validation'. Was trying to steer chat towards the thread. Appears I failed.

The thread is about Gilbert. You said this.

I'd like him to know that his efforts to make Detroit better are so very much appreciated by many people.

What makes you think he gives a pinched turd whether people appreciate his efforts or not? He's doing it to make money and grow his business. You know, like your buddy John.

[hortonz]

To paraphrase the excellent James Howard Kunstler, once America's aging power grid becomes unreliable and the lights go off and there's no money to fix anything will people come to their senses.

[Gannon]

Deliverer of Truth
Gannon,

You sound like a bit of a bitter, jealous pathetic soul.

What kind of person sits at home on a nice Sunday afternoon and postsfabricated lies on discussion forums that the employees of a 28-year-oldcompany that is known as one of the most successful businesses not only inDetroit but in the entire country, are running rampant stealing from each otherand doing such with cocaine up their noses?

I guess that it must be that same company not "based on solid businesspractises" that typically wins the highest honor in all these UnitedStates for customer service in their field from JD Power three years in a row,huh?

But then again, it must be all of those happy and drugged larceny riddenemployees that has put QL into the top 15 of Fortune Magazine's 100 'bestplaces to work in the country' ranking for the past 9-10 years and according tothe NYT article the third largest residential lender in America who will close100 Billion in home loan volume this year.

Perhaps, before you anonymously libel a company and its numerous hard-workingemployees you should examine what would create such hostility in you to inventthis nonsense and post publicly what you know to be completely false.

Did you get fired from their organisation for fraud or poor customer service? Iwould suspect that someone with the likes of your stench combined with yourdevious capacity to commit such 'brave' slanderous lies while maintaining yourincognito identity, would likely stand out like a flatulent turd in a rosegarden at any place of employment who even subscribes to mediocre sets of principleslet alone the over-the-top standards QL imposes.

In other words, they would show the likes of one with your character flaws the doormighty quickly, I surmise.

I rarely post on this board but when I see a great American company that hasnot only stood the test of time but survived a complete collapse of theirindustry and thrived as one of the few remaining participants of size beingdisparaged by some whiny malcontent with twisted fantasies, I feel it honorableto shine truth on the matter so the deviant perpetrating such trash is exposed.

Now, I do realize the mutant invertebrate cowers in the fetal position when heexperiences his recurring nightmare of being outed but he should have noworries. His spiteful defamation remains safely protected behind the namelessand faceless confines of his keyboard where identification is an unlikelyevent.

However, after reading this response, I have an inkling things will be, shallwe say "weird, precarious and funky" for this poltroon when he looksin the mirror before retiring to his likely unstable sleep.

Yours Truly,

The Deliverer of Truth

PS...For the other poster on this board whose depleted self-esteem seemedto get a false temporary boost from his reveling in the piece of informationthat the "savior" of our fair city stands at 65 inches so istherefore boosted by "Napoleonic influences", I have bad news foryou: Either through misprint or simple error, and although the MotownMissionary will never play center for the NBA franchise he owns, he is minimum67" and perhaps 68". I played many an athletic competition againstthe chap and in high top gym shoes he gets over the 68" marker with ease.Being 70" myself, I have taken close note to such an importantcharacteristic of the man because he crushes me [[tennis, bowling, weightlifting, basketballand golf just to name a few) at a much higher frequency than is of my liking.

Sleep well, miscreants.

I'm not bitter, nor jealous, nor...hopefully...pathetic, and I was taking a break from an exciting project on a strict deadline to jump in and share the latest I'd heard on the street about the impact some of your employees have had in the city. I've got one of them newfangled laptop computers, so I can be on-line away from home, even while IN the sunshine!

Some people judge their success by whether they can afford that chemical bump every time they want it. I have worked with people like that, twenty years ago when I allowed my gifts to be abused on a commission-based retail salesfloor.

Later on, those same people defend the substance, after it has its hooks in their psyches, by saying as long as they can still pay their bills...they don't have a problem. Remember when Michael Jordan said that about his gambling? Cannot imagine the magnitude of his troubles if his wife couldn't pay their bills. Nah, when I see an entire class of employees leaving behind them the obvious signs of having trouble with a substance...there are increasing reports of useage in parking lots, public bathrooms, talk of it being common knowledge...this is not one rumor repeated, dude...so, I suspect that it is a systemic problem. Hell, I've known other industries with weird basic 'requirements'...I spent two years in Hollywood with enhanced access.


I know people who work in some of your buildings, and I have fun gathering the reports to get a feel for the new zeitgeist you've brought to our city. MOST of it is very welcome. I only negatively comment on the things which indicate that the story might not be wholly told in the mainstream media. And the glaringly razor's edge of interior 'design' and building mis-management, but only because those also reveal more of the executive-suite character than you might realize.

I'm sorry for disparaging your business...but I'm biased by the basic core philosophy of mortgaging land ownership. That game has never made sense to me, it always seemed the carrot-on-a-stick of home and land ownership was priced just enough to sign a whole bunch of folks up to an odd form of modern land slavery. For fifteen to thirty years. Congratulations on learning how to profit off of it all, but you know they've got un-nice names for the slavemaster's assistants, too.

But specifically the practise of hiring-by-cattlecall, twenty bodies 'hired' to fill five seats won by a battle of survival of the fittest...that creates the problems with employee turns and trust and theft [[by those who know they are going to be fired soon anyways, and haven't made their nut to earn the real commissions). It is barbaric at the least...and forces your entire employee base have a lack of foundation and investment necessary for long-term career development. By engaging this Inhuman Relation, you are gleefully participating in one of Capitalism's worst justified abuses. You know I am not making up the employee theft issue. I got confirmation of this from a very close source.

I really want your exercise in downtown redevelopment to succeed. Sincerely. The energy in the city is completely different these past few years, especially the last six months during the buying spree. I just want it to last a l-o-n-g time, and many of the evidences I've witnessed and gleaned through the chatter of those I trust downtown seem to indicate you surround yourself with fast and hard livers whose livers may indeed be the break that brakes the whole race. It ain't no race, and I know the pun regards alcohol...coke will deviate the septum and attack the cardiovascular system instead...I just couldn't find terms to twist into a fancy little mobius phrase.

I lived hard and fast during the Miami Vice era in Birmingham. A few of my friends from then did not survive. I'd rather never again ever hear of someone burning out their bright shining light before their time. This town has had trouble with fires throughout its history. I'm hoping you'll learn from that, we all need to do so.


Cheers,
John

Oh, and since I've got your ear...please take care of the original Vinton Building investment team, there were a few really good people in it who got burned by your old friend Kwhyme and Bobby F. If you had the cash to help try to keep Kwhyme in power, you've got it to make that whole situation right. I still cannot figure why you joined that group, if you're such an upstanding citizen. Yeah, I know, Penske was one of ya, too, if I remember correctly.

For the record, I am between 70 and 71 inches tall with at least a six-inch vertical leap that I seldom use. I mean, if we're comparing sizes. At least when I play with myself, though, I don't cheat to let myself win. I beat myself constantly...because MY alternate personality doesn't need the false sense of success to feel better about itself. Myself, I mean. Damnit, now you've got me confused.

[Gannon]

I took the liberty of searching on that curious insult, poltroon.

That, my friend, is a giveaway...a tell. You outed yourself.

Nice one, Moohead!

[Gannon]

Oh yeah, and can you get floors three, four, five, seven, eight, and nine some damn window treatments down at One Woodward?! All that crap taped up makes your new building really look like a shithole trailer park. You don't want to piss off the ghost up on 16. They told you about the ghost, didn't they?!

Cheers

[subsidized]

Oh yeah, and can you get floors three, four, five, seven, eight, and nine some damn window treatments down at One Woodward?! All that crap taped up makes your new building really look like a shithole trailer park. You don't want to piss off the ghost up on 16. They told you about the ghost, didn't they?!

Cheers

I went for a stroll down the Riverwalk last week, as I exited through Hart Plaza I noticed all the little pieces of paper all over the windows in One Woodward. Now I'm not the type to tell people what to do with their property, but that issue should be addressed, because from the street below, it does look like shit.

[m b v]

As the workday ends, cars trickle out of underground parking lots and speed off to nearby highways...

In other words, the rich guy [[Gilbert) forces a bunch of $10/hour 20-somethings to waste time and money on parking, fueling, car maintenance, etc. to commute downtown 5 or 6 times a week - just so he can appear to be the savior of the city. This entire thing is a farce - new industry industry isn't coming into Detroit, just bottom feeder jobs shuffling from the burbs into the city. Kids STILL don't want to live in this murder capital, they just commute from RO or their parent's house [[because it's hard to pay off student loans and an apartment on $10/hour).

And to be honest, the description of the workplace "culture" screams WMU, CMU, Wayne and Oakland grads with 2.3 GPAs.

[gameguy56]

In other words, the rich guy [[Gilbert) forces a bunch of $10/hour 20-somethings to waste time and money on parking, fueling, car maintenance, etc. to commute downtown 5 or 6 times a week

This is rich. A commute from Ferndale or Royal Oak to downtown is what? 10-12 miles? That's nothing. Would you be making this same complaint if the office was in Novi? Which is 20 miles from Royal Oak and a LONGER commute than downtown from RO/Ferndale. What are you even complaining about? Is fueling and car maintenance free as soon as you cross 8 mile?

[m b v]

This is rich. A commute from Ferndale or Royal Oak to downtown is what? 10-12 miles? That's nothing. Would you be making this same complaint if the office was in Novi? Which is 20 miles from Royal Oak and a LONGER commute than downtown from RO/Ferndale. What are you even complaining about? Is fueling and car maintenance free as soon as you cross 8 mile?

Commute from RO to Novi or Detroit is roughly the same distance and time. But you can safety live in or very near Novi, a lot of his employees were prob raised [[and may still live) there. Parking is easy. You can grab a burger after work without worrying about getting stabbed. It's all so phoney and artificial, there is no value created forcing these kids downtown. Spending 9-5 p.m. in Detroit is a costly choir, but it makes Dan feel noble and don't forget "nobody ever complains about working in Detroit" [to Dan].

The bottom feeder cold callers and Power Point gurus he's hiring aren't going to save the city - the picture above and description of the culture was embarrassing, IMO. Elite grads from MSU and UM do not want to be apart of that.

[gameguy56]

Commute from RO to Novi or Detroit is roughly the same distance and time. But you can safety live in or very near Novi, a lot of his employees were prob raised [[and may still live) there. Parking is easy. You can grab a burger after work without worrying about getting stabbed.

Yeesh, chill with the animosity. I'm sure QL also employes a non-insignificant number of eastsiders and grosse pointers who are glad to have a shorter commute.

Do you really worry about getting stabbed every time you're in Downtown?

[illwill]

^^^^ DAMNNN!!!

What's going on in Gilbertland?

[Honky Tonk]

^^^^ DAMNNN!!!

What's going on in Gilbertland?

Investment -Subsidies -Tax Breaks +Low Wages +Kick Backs from High Rent = $$$$$$$ For Dan.

[Flintoid]

http://deadlinedetroit.com/articles/...ommerce_phobia

Good article by Jeff Wattrick about how the NYT article is about as out of touch as it gets.

"Gilbert is far less the Doctors Without Borders figure the Times’ narrative attempts to describe and far more like Billy Beane, at least the Michael Lewis version of the Oakland A’s GM, going after assets undervalued in an inefficient marketplace.
Bravo to him for that. Seriously. If just a few people recognized the value inherent in a Detroit most have dismissed as worthless, then Detroit wouldn’t look so Detroit-y."

[Detroitdave]

I think we owe Detroitdave an apology:

[/FONT][/COLOR]

@iheartthed, thanks ! I hope I have a pretty thick skin. I try to post things I am pretty sure of, but it says they are "courting" Nike.
Ultimately is up to Nike , but if they[[nike) are paying attention this could be a very good move for them.

There is a definite built up demand to shop in Downtown ,i.e pure Detroit , you'd be crazy to sit on the side lines for too long , you snooze you loose and business hate to loose .

Look at how successful Moosejaw has been.

I've been shopping at their Wooodward/14 mile store for a while .Two years ago you would have NEVER seen a shirt with Detroit and a store name married together on it , and this has TAKEN off for Moosejaw, people love that shirt !

btw no I don't work for moosejaw ! :-)

Heck 10 years ago you would have been hard pressed to find ANYTHING with the name Detroit on it .
I can't tell you how many suburban folks I see wearing Detroit shirts PROUDLY .This would have NEVER happen even 10 years ago .

Now you see shirts ,hats, hoodies, heck you even see STARBUCKS MUGS with Detroit on it, a gift I give
EVERYTIME I visit friends outside of the state LOL ;-)

so maybe Detroit isn't quite the shit hole that some metro Detroiters want to keep it ?
Now it's the one of hippest thing going and folks across the country interest are peak.

I think we should be building on this instead of hating on it ?
We all deserve a city we can point to and say" hey it's not so bad" I personally don't want to move away AGAIN . I want Detroit to succeed . I want a cool , hip safe, city that works for ALL Detroiters .

Seems some demons from the past are alive and well and keep popping up , some folks hate change .

[Detroitdave]

I think we owe Detroitdave an apology:

[/FONT][/COLOR]

@iheartthed, thanks ! I hope I have a pretty thick skin. I try to post things I am pretty sure of, but it says they are "courting" Nike.
Ultimately is up to Nike , but if they[[nike) are paying attention this could be a very good move for them.

There is a definite built up demand to shop in Downtown ,i.e pure Detroit , you'd be crazy to sit on the side lines for too long , you snooze you loose and business hate to loose .

Look at how successful Moosejaw has been.

I've been shopping at their Wooodward/14 mile store for a while .Two years ago you would have NEVER seen a shirt with Detroit and a store name married together on it , and this has TAKEN off for Moosejaw, people love that shirt !

btw no I don't work for moosejaw ! :-)

Heck 10 years ago you would have been hard pressed to find ANYTHING with the name Detroit on it .
I can't tell you how many suburban folks I see wearing Detroit shirts PROUDLY .This would have NEVER happen even 10 years ago .

Now you see shirts ,hats, hoodies, heck you even see STARBUCKS MUGS with Detroit on it, a gift I give
EVERYTIME I visit friends outside of the state LOL ;-)

so maybe Detroit isn't quite the shit hole that some metro Detroiters want to keep it ?
Now it's the one of hippest thing going and folks across the country interest are peak.

I think we should be building on this instead of hating on it ?
We all deserve a city we can point to and say" hey it's not so bad" I personally don't want to move away AGAIN . I want Detroit to succeed . I want a cool , hip safe, city that works for ALL Detroiters .

Seems some demons from the past are alive and well and keep popping up , some folks hate change .

[Gannon]

Dear Believer1/Moohead/Deliverer of Truth,

This just arrived in the nick of time.

You're a smart fellow, you can read. Take a minute or four.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...internalSearch


We're only trying to help. Seriously. Keep away from the Powdered Hubris Enhancement. That stuff lies to you. Gets ya in trouble, and if you're in trouble...what happens to our civic dream?! I've seen it quell far too many plans and dreams in my time...


Sincerely,
John
one of the least anonymous posters on this board

[Hamtragedy]

Sounds like Midtown ain't that far from the Cass Corridor after all

[Gannon]

I just finished Charlie LeDuff's book...and his cousin had some tremendously interesting things to say about his time working with QuickenLoans.

But I bet some action has been drawn up regarding those words...lawyers have a way of smelling deep pockets.

The key term was 'borderline criminal' activity...so they might sneak by with a powerful critique against this firm's internal procedures. He wasn't fired for cause, either, because he says they tried to rehire him when the market turned back around after the crash. Funny, someone said Quicken didn't play with those sub-prime abuses...Charlie's cousin begs to differ, it seems.

Where'd you GO, Believer1? Out delivering more 'truth'?

[Gannon]

Oh yeah, and can you get floors three, four, five, seven, eight, and nine some damn window treatments down at One Woodward?! All that crap taped up makes your new building really look like a shithole trailer park. You don't want to piss off the ghost up on 16. They told you about the ghost, didn't they?!

Cheers

Just got corrected by a source that it is on 20, mostly. Usually only bugging those who work alone, late at night. But whispered stories accumulated from long-gone cleaning staff and security...confirmed by a few of the more sensitive of those who burned the midnight oil for their corporate overlords.

Cheers