Freeway Embankment Erosion...

[gazhekwe]

Yes, why WOULD they be cutting it, when they can't afford to cut the grass in parks? Why not just leave it to grow naturally?

[East Detroit]

Why does 94 in Detroit look like crap with falling bridges, collapsing median, and eroding embankments... while 94 outside of Detroit, 696, 96 West... all have nice new brick walls, shrubbery, individual brickwork on some bridges...

Its not the budget issues of the City of Detroit, because its not their responsibility. Is it because its Detroit that it somehow isn't a priority for MDOT?

The difference is striking.

[Guideboat]

Wolverine beat me too it. I think the freeways look their best before they get around to mowing. I think the greater Chicago area uses a mixture of long and prairie grasses that give a soft green look. There are types of grass that are resistant to drought and salt that would be especially hardy throughout the year.

Freeways need to get over the front lawn model. There is too much maintenance involved.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1...igenous-plants

[Gistok]

Why does 94 in Detroit look like crap with falling bridges, collapsing median, and eroding embankments... while 94 outside of Detroit, 696, 96 West... all have nice new brick walls, shrubbery, individual brickwork on some bridges...

Its not the budget issues of the City of Detroit, because its not their responsibility. Is it because its Detroit that it somehow isn't a priority for MDOT?

The difference is striking.

You do bring up a valid point East Detroit... One of the issues is that between Connor and I-96 the state wants to spend as little as possible in order to not have to rip it all down for a [[still possible) $1 Billion rebuild and expansion to 4 lanes. This topic has been discussed at great lengths [[actually ad nauseum) on several other threads on this forum, and can be read there.

However... some of the bridges are in such bad shape, that an emergency rebuild became necessary now. The Van Dyke bridge was just recently torn down out of necessity. It's east of Conner and west of I-96 that more maintenance has been done. But what you say East Detroit is true... I-696 looks even better than those stretches of I-94 that have been rebuilt.

[East Detroit]

You do bring up a valid point East Detroit... One of the issues is that between Connor and I-96 the state wants to spend as little as possible in order to not have to rip it all down for a [[still possible) $1 Billion rebuild and expansion to 4 lanes.

Right, so, either they leave Van Dyke down until then, or they admit it will never happen and start replacing all the bridges and the median before something catastrophic happens [[other than small pieces of concrete falling down which is bad enough -- and you can see they've "shaved" the edges of bridge roads to try to minimize that).

OR when they replace bridges, just assume the road will be wider and put up new bridges that would accommodate such.

[Gistok]

I remember 3 years ago they replace part of the Van Dyke roadbed on the bridge... only to now do it again... with the rest of the bridge. Has replacement started? Or is the Van Dyke bridge still gone?

[DetroitPlanner]

Why does 94 in Detroit look like crap with falling bridges, collapsing median, and eroding embankments... while 94 outside of Detroit, 696, 96 West... all have nice new brick walls, shrubbery, individual brickwork on some bridges...

Its not the budget issues of the City of Detroit, because its not their responsibility. Is it because its Detroit that it somehow isn't a priority for MDOT?

The difference is striking.

It has more to do with shoehorning the freeways in an attempt to reduce the amount of land they require. If you look at what they did along the Southfield, it is the wave of the future. Mowing grass along freeways slopes does cause erosion. If the grass was taller, it would have thicker roots and mitigate the problem. Unfortunately people see that and think that it needs mowing so they complain so the State/county mows it. The lawnmowers themselves, particularly after a rain spell also contribute because they get caught in the mudd and tear the turf.

[DetroitPlanner]

I remember 3 years ago they replace part of the Van Dyke roadbed on the bridge... only to now do it again... with the rest of the bridge. Has replacement started? Or is the Van Dyke bridge still gone?

Van Dyke and Gratiot bridges are getting rebuilt so that they can be stripped with an extra lane in the future. This has already happened years ago with the big deck E of I-75. Once the one is done, the other will begin.

[jackie5275]

I drive I-94 every day on my commute from Dearborn/Allen Park area to Hamtramck. I never thought much of this erosion that Gistok was talking about until he posted that picture of it by the Lodge with a big hunk of grass missing. I don't travel east going past Mt. Elliott, but watching from the westside, I don't see as much as Gistok on the eastside going out to like St. Claire Shores. What I have seen since this discussion started is what looks to me like the folks cutting the grass have the blades of the mowers set at the lowest level. I see strips of dirt between strips of grass that's been pretty buzzed down to nothing too.

Regarding the bridge reconstruction, the overpass at W Grand Blvd was torn down a couple of weeks before the Van Dyke one for replacement too. Ironically, the exit for W Grand was a left exit that went up a ramp in the median to the bridge. In between the exit ramp & the freeway was a somewhat big area of grass. In getting ready for the Super Bowl back in 2005-2006, I-94 between I-75 & the airport was reconstructed. Part of it included planting a bunch of pine trees & rose bushes that looked pretty nice when they first went in this grassy median area. However, the past few years have seen them neglected & dying. Now they've been obliterated with the construction. I wonder if they'll be replaced or if they were there just for the Super Bowl.

[Gistok]

Jackie5275... why on earth would the state plant a maintenance intensive plant like roses? They have to be dead headed and cut back in order to have continuous growth over the summer. But I thought I remembered seeing some on I-696 as well. What were they thinking??

[Whitehouse]

I didn't know the machines we use in the Netherlands were that special since they are quite common over here.

A photo collection.

This one sucks...


Work on the freeway. The tractor has a device which mows under the central divider.



Though not all goes well and sometimes the mowers end belly up...

It also appears to be doing some serious damage as it's actually rocking the wooden posts as it goes around them.

Actually they are made out of plastic, they're cheap and easy to replace.

[jackie5275]

Jackie5275... why on earth would the state plant a maintenance intensive plant like roses? They have to be dead headed and cut back in order to have continuous growth over the summer. But I thought I remembered seeing some on I-696 as well. What were they thinking??

I don't know, but they were certainly there until the construction started. Granted, they were dead, but still there. Farther west near the Ford & Lonyo exits they had planted tulips & daffodils in the median back then too. Those faded pretty fast. Maybe some flower vendor got a short but sweet contract with MDOT back then.

[RO_Resident]

Freeway bank erosion is a serious issue. First, it looks like crap when chunks of grass are missing.

Second, the exposed bank is a spot where erosion can happen. When there are exposed areas, there are also water quality concerns--silted stormwater runoff is bad for the stream or lake where the untreated water is discharged. Plus, the silt, sand, and gravel will cause catch basins to clog.

MDOT has been experimenting with using native species and other vegetation that minimizes amount of care [[watering, weeding, mowing, etc.) needed to keep up the banks. But that is definitely a work in progress.
http://www.michigan.gov/mdot/0,4616,...4890--,00.html

[Gistok]

Thanks for the link RO_Resident... I wasn't sure what MDOT was doing with this problem... but it's good to know that they are addressing it.

[Gistok]

The new side embankment road lights are now completed in some areas, and are shining quite brilliantly. Looks very good!

I imagine that the removal of the central light poles will be the next thing on the agenda... although some of them at random points have already been removed. I assume that the last thing will be to fill the gaps from the location of the former polls with cement to keep the median barricade looking uniform...

[TKshreve]

Well, here's our first victim to find the newly installed light poles on the embankments. WTF were they thinking putting these things up here? That nobody would ever find themselves riding up the embankment? Unnecessary altogether.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/o...z/-/index.html

[Gistok]

Thanks for posting TKshreve... I knew this was inevitable. But judging by the foliage stuck under the SUV... it looks like they lost control and hit that first. I bet the SUV lost control on the freeway, went up the embankment, hit the bushes [[ripping out a bunch) and ended up taking out the newly placed side freeway lightpole.

A few years back I had witnessed the horrifying incident of a young driver going up the embankment around the I-94 curve in SCS, and hitting a tree near the top of the embankment. Well the tree was only about 15 ft. tall... and it sheered right thru thu the car almost cutting it in half, the car burst into flames, and the driver was roasted alive in the horrific flames that engulfed the auto. I witnessed this just before the emergency/fire vehicles arrived.

But these newly placed light poles are only about 10 ft. up the embankment [[as opposed to the car I witnessed about 20 ft. up that hit the tree) and make for a much easier target...

[DetroitPlanner]

Funny, I read that article and got the feeling the guy was speeding and possibly drunk. You can't blame the road for someone who drives at a rate that he cannot control his car.

[MikeM]

Let's see:

darkness
speeding
no seatbelt

Yea, it was the light pole's fault.

[DetroitPlanner]

Let's see:

darkness
speeding
no seatbelt

Yea, it was the light pole's fault.

As we say here at work "You can't engineer the stupid out of people!"

[TKshreve]

It's funny to see everyone ignore what Gistok and I are harping about. Yes, the guy should never have been unbuckled, speeding or on the embankment. Putting that aside this driver may have survived the accident had he not hit the light pole. Judging from the responses here, I would venture to guess that most are rather pleased that Darwin had his way.

Just don't come crying here when your daughters car is forced up the embankment by a out of control semi or out-of-insurance Detroit driver.

Gistok - I too have seen the remnants of two accidents that made their way up the embankment on that stretch of I-94. One person somehow ended up sliding into the poles that hold up the 10 mile bridge. And many may remember the semi that rode up and crashed into Kroger at Old Eight Mile road.

It happens whether you're a great driver or the worst of the worst.

[Gistok]

TKshreve... the fellow who burned to death in his sheared vehicle [[tree impact) at the 8 Mile westbound curve was a 20 something driver with no alcohol or drugs in his system, and an unblemished driving record...