Detroit gets some love from a travel guru.

[michimoby]

And here's yet another one. I have to give Chicago props on this. They keep the propaganda pumping, and it does seem to work.

There is, of course, so such thing as an official downtown classification, so there's no way to do a comparative analysis. Any city can have the "fastest growing downtown"; you just need to find a sample with a fast rate of growth.

Given that Gilbert touted the 59% growth in the 18-34 population downtown in his recent speech, Detroit's keeping the propaganda machine humming as well.

Yes, that stat is accurate, but given that it was an increase from a base sample of ~800 people, and nearly every other neighborhood has a marked decline in that population sample...

[michimoby]

Native UM grads are leaving because they have the option to, not because of some inherent quality of UM grads. Elevate WSU's status to the point that their grads have abundant options in other cities like NYC or Chicago like UM grads, they'll leave too.

With regard to out-of-state UM students, they are paying full out-of-state tuition, so they are actually subsidizing the rest. You probably want to keep them around.

Spot on with both points here, T.

[iheartthed]

LOL... folks arguing over statistics ONCE AGAIN.... we can argue CSA...MSA... why metropolitan Windsor isn't included in ours... ad nauseum. I look at those MSA maps that Shollin produced... and I see the MSA's for Dallas, Houston, and Phoenix that are as large as metro Detroit... if you included all of the Thumb, Toledo AND metro Windsor... I always remember that the claim for being among the 6 largest cathedrals in Europe number at least 20! It all depends on how you measure!

Only people who don't understand numbers say this. MSA, loosely defined, is a conglomeration of counties that meet a certain threshold of economic inter-connectivity. CSAs are a conglomeration of MSAs that meet a level of inter-connectivity. MSA would be the proper measure of how the GDP of a single central city measures against that of another central city because CSAs can be clouded by two major cities in close proximity [[like DC and Baltimore).

[Gistok]

Only people who don't understand numbers say this. MSA, loosely defined, is a conglomeration of counties that meet a certain threshold of economic inter-connectivity. CSAs are a conglomeration of MSAs that meet a level of inter-connectivity. MSA would be the proper measure of how the GDP of a single central city measures against that of another central city because CSAs can be clouded by two major cities in close proximity [[like DC and Baltimore).

Um... they don't include metro Windsor in any Detroit statistic... why? Not because there aren't thousands of Windsorites that work in Detroit... but because Windsor is not part of the USA. It is only when you define World Cities... does Detroit include the Windsor metro area. So like I said it all depends on who defines things...

[iheartthed]

Um... they don't include metro Windsor in any Detroit statistic... why? Not because there aren't thousands of Windsorites that work in Detroit... but because Windsor is not part of the USA. It is only when you define World Cities... does Detroit include the Windsor metro area. So like I said it all depends on who defines things...

I doubt 15% of people in the Windsor area commute to Metro Detroit for work. That is the criteria.

[ronaldj]

I have not taken the time to read all of the five pages of posts on this subject but I thought i would like to add some disconnected thoughts.

Why do you think Chicago designates itself as The Second City? Inferiority complex? I don't think so.

Detroit put the world on wheels and a strange and perilous story that was and is.

Motown gave the world a factory based music that still sounds as good today as when I was a young child/ a teen.

The Michigan Opera Theater faltered but due to the passion and vision of one man, it is on stable footing for many years to come.

Gretchen Valade and the Carrhart family have kept the Detroit Jazz Festival alive after Montreaux backed out and created two record companies that have created two record companies that promote internationally reknowned artists as well as well respected Detroit artists.

The DIA. The best. Beats any art museum in Chicago. Colleagues from Taiwan and other Asian countries were astounded on what was on display. The only thing to beat the DIA on this score would probably San Francisco. And do not forget the up and coming museums that are growing in the metrpolitan community.

Sorry we are a one horse industry town. This city had its roots in horse racing which gave way to the automobile.

Film production. The iconic Evil Dead came from here as well as most automotive advertising.

Architecture. Take your pick.

Belle Isle. Falling down through the political process but designed by Frederick Olmstead who created Central Park.

We live on an international waterway. Annual bass fishing tournaments that you can view from the Renaissance Center every spring. You have to love the water.

Could go on but enough of the rant.

My mantra has generally been "Detroit is the biggest small city in the world". You do get a smile and a reply in the right circumstances.

[detroit12]

Chicago is undoubtedly the greatest city in the Midwest. That's what it is. I've never really understood how they came to the conclusion that Illinois was part of the Midwest. I guess the term Central America was already taken. I've lived or worked in just about every major city in the "Midwest". When I moved to Detroit it had a completely different feel than any city I'd spent time in, across the Midwest. It has an eastern feel to it. I loved the fact that it felt different. I didn't think, too bad this isn't Chicago.

You have to embrace a city for what it is, enjoy what it has to offer. Chicago, Detroit, New York, Los Angeles, New Orleans, Tokyo, Berlin, Amsterdam, are all great cities because they all have their own personalities. Greatness? What is that based on? You love a city or you don't.

well said. I think people need to stop comparing Detroit to other cities period.

[detroit12]

I think it's the stair-step effect. I'm so sick and tired of hearing Detroiter's always bringing up Chicago and bashing it for being a successful city. But then we want everything they have. Here in Detroit we get so excited for a raw food restaurant or a simple new store announcement. It obviously shows that we resent Chicago and we're jealous of what they have. Otherwise, why do we ALWAYS bring up Chicago in our conversations? Just like Chicagoan's always bring up NYC. But I doubt Chicagoan's ever bring up Detroit. Just like NYC never mentions Chicago.

Detroit measures itself to Chicago, Chicago measures itself to NYC and NYC measures itself to London. New York is definitely the top city of America but even NYC is changing for the worse.

I've lived in a few cities in this country and abroad and I just think America is the same where ever you go. The weather varies, the terrain varies, the accents vary, the architecture varies but aside from those things and a few others, everything is still the same. It wasn't always that way.

I personally blame it on technology. The internet, cable, the 24 hour news cycle, twitter, facebook etc...has melted the united states into one homogenized country. Cities aren't what they once were. I feel like you overpay to live in a place that people think they're so unique and different but in the end, they're all the same. The hipsters, food trucks, pop-ups, "the new hot neighborhood", real estate values etc... It's so funny. Maybe I'm getting old and I've out grown those things. I'd love for Detroit to be a nice place to live and that's it. A place where people can raise a family, have good schools, enjoy parks, be safe, not buying real estate for the sole purpose of flipping/investment. I'm tired of paying $12 for a burger when I go out to a bar that I can grille in my back yard for a dollar. The whole "city thing" is old to me. NYC, Chicago, LA, Austin, D.C. Detroit...who is next. I doubt Cleveland...lol!

I'd love to try Cuba

Detroiters don't really dwell on us compared to Chicago

[detroit12]

Well "delusional" must be working because Chicago has been stealing much of Michigan's talent for years and it isn't slowing down. There are now more Michigan grads in Chicago than in New York. Of course we all know it's a Michigan State hot bed. I'm not saying Chicago is a cupcake with a cherry on top but you can't deny Chicago is leaps and bounds ahead of Detroit in terms of the type of lifestyle that these young kids are looking for. I assume transit has a lot to do with it, shopping, walkable neighborhoods and tons neighborhood pubs. I think Detroit might want to cater to people such as myself who have already made the rounds but now want a slower pace lifestyle but still in a great city.


The proof is in the pudding.

When I speak to my college age nephews and nieces and their friends, I ask about their interest in moving to Detroit after finishing school? They look at me like I'm crazy. They're looking forward to returning back to the Michigan burbs where they grew up. In all fairness, they have little interest in Chicago as well. Now, I think this is unique to the Michigan region because most kids from big city suburbs look forward to moving into the city. I once mentioned to them in conversation, that I read most college grads these days aren't interested in driving because they choose to live in walkable cities with public transit. AGAIN, they said not any of our friends [[with a smirk on their faces)... They said they'd rather drive everywhere. Again, I think this is unique to S.E. Michigan because we've never had a functional big city in Michigan.

Here's what I see, people like us who prefer Detroit belong to a certain fraternity. People aren't exactly flocking here in droves like the rah-rah Detroiter's are pretending, but I think the growth is for real this time. Slow but steady. I think empty nesters and the matured would be worth courting.

nobody is really a "rah rah Detroiter" it only seems that way to most people across 8 mile because Metro Detroit hates Detroit and expect everyone to. No one, from any other city in the world, loathes Detroit like Metro Detroiters. And as soon as you include anything nice or positive in a conversation about Detroit with a suburbanite you are "looking through a rose colored glass" or "rah rah Detroiter"or a "defender" or "pretending there aren't any problems" and the list goes on. But if you bash Detroit you're spot on. No matter that everything you say isn't true. Sure Indian Village is rundown, sure Midtown is a cesspool, sure Detroit is filled with only black thugs and white suburbanites moving downtown and saving it.

[p69rrh51]

nobody is really a "rah rah Detroiter" it only seems that way to most people across 8 mile because Metro Detroit hates Detroit and expect everyone to. No one, from any other city in the world, loathes Detroit like Metro Detroiters. And as soon as you include anything nice or positive in a conversation about Detroit with a suburbanite you are "looking through a rose colored glass" or "rah rah Detroiter"or a "defender" or "pretending there aren't any problems" and the list goes on. But if you bash Detroit you're spot on. No matter that everything you say isn't true. Sure Indian Village is rundown, sure Midtown is a cesspool, sure Detroit is filled with only black thugs and white suburbanites moving downtown and saving it.

detroit12 you are correct many ignorant metro Detroit area residents loathe the CoD. On the other hand please do not lump all of us suburbanites into that general category. This suburbanite along with most of his friends do not and never have loathed the city. We see the problems and the city's faults but also see what the city has to offer. Your generalizations are just as ignorant as those who bash Detroit.

[detroit12]

detroit12 you are correct many ignorant metro Detroit area residents loathe the CoD. On the other hand please do not lump all of us suburbanites into that general category. This suburbanite along with most of his friends do not and never have loathed the city. We see the problems and the city's faults but also see what the city has to offer. Your generalizations are just as ignorant as those who bash Detroit.

you and your friends are a rarity and you know it. the vast majority are exactly how I described

[p69rrh51]

you and your friends are a rarity and you know it. the vast majority are exactly how I described

No I am not a rarity! Although most are a indifferent, not as many as you think are haters!

[detroit12]

No I am not a rarity! Although most are a indifferent, not as many as you think are haters!

lmao if you think that way

[p69rrh51]

lmao if you think that way

Do you really want to get into a pissing contest? You are clueless!

[southen]

No I am not a rarity! Although most are a indifferent, not as many as you think are haters!

i think you could substitute ignorance for indifference. most people don't go into the city or experience it, they just regurgitate the same stories and stereotypes that have been passed on for years.

[p69rrh51]

i think you could substitute ignorance for indifference. most people don't go into the city or experience it, they just regurgitate the same stories and stereotypes that have been passed on for years.

Yes indifference on all sides is the better description.

[Gistok]

I have to agree with p69rrh51...

A a suburbanite... I do not hate the city... in fact I can't think of a single neighbor of mine that does hate it. We may hate what has become of large parts of the city with the plight of crime in the neighborhoods... as well as the housing meltdown... but we certainly don't hate it.

[detroit12]

Do you really want to get into a pissing contest? You are clueless!

no sir, you're the one that's clueless. It is well known that average Metro Detroit hates Detroit....I mean look at this board alone. If someone who has never been to MI let alone Detroit ask someone from Birmingham how Detroit is what do you think the response will be? Matter of fact, how about all of the Metro Detroiters living and visiting other cities and being very adamant about distinguishing the city they live in from Detroit? "oh I don't live in Detroit I live in Fraser, its nothing like Detroit" I've heard this bs myself. Like someone from LA, Chicago, NY, ATL etc gives a damn about a Fraser, MI.

[detroit12]

I have to agree with p69rrh51...

A a suburbanite... I do not hate the city... in fact I can't think of a single neighbor of mine that does hate it. We may hate what has become of large parts of the city with the plight of crime in the neighborhoods... as well as the housing meltdown... but we certainly don't hate it.

smh if this was the norm, Detroit would be a much different place. Stop denying it. I've heard it with my own damn ears.

[detroit12]

i think you could substitute ignorance for indifference. most people don't go into the city or experience it, they just regurgitate the same stories and stereotypes that have been passed on for years.

thank you! Denying that most suburbanites loathe Detroit is ridiculous! I've heard the hate time and time again myself. "Don't go to Detroit, you'll get shot" "oh I stay far away from the city too many thugs" etc I'm not making this up. This attitude is the main reason I myself have grown to dislike the Metro area. Going to a Tigers game and bar downtown or restaurant in midtown doesn't change this either. Now lets ask how many suburbanites how many of them have gone to new shops, restaurants etc that aren't in the comfort zone of the greater downtown area? or is it filled with thugs. I'm not saying every single suburbanite feels that way but most do and its no secret

[noise]

thank you! Denying that most suburbanites loathe Detroit is ridiculous! I've heard the hate time and time again myself. "Don't go to Detroit, you'll get shot" "oh I stay far away from the city too many thugs" etc I'm not making this up. This attitude is the main reason I myself have grown to dislike the Metro area. Going to a Tigers game and bar downtown or restaurant in midtown doesn't change this either. Now lets ask how many suburbanites how many of them have gone to new shops, restaurants etc that aren't in the comfort zone of the greater downtown area? or is it filled with thugs. I'm not saying every single suburbanite feels that way but most do and its no secret

If you're going to throw around words like "most", you should be prepared to back it up statistically. Of course, we both know you can't do that.

Your anecdotal comments are simply that. You're more influenced by the negative comments. In reality, you have absolutely no idea what the majority of suburbanites feel because you don't know most suburbanites and most suburbanites haven't made their opinions publicly known.

It very well may be true. But it's not certain.

[p69rrh51]

thank you! Denying that most suburbanites loathe Detroit is ridiculous! I've heard the hate time and time again myself. "Don't go to Detroit, you'll get shot" "oh I stay far away from the city too many thugs" etc I'm not making this up. This attitude is the main reason I myself have grown to dislike the Metro area. Going to a Tigers game and bar downtown or restaurant in midtown doesn't change this either. Now lets ask how many suburbanites how many of them have gone to new shops, restaurants etc that aren't in the comfort zone of the greater downtown area? or is it filled with thugs. I'm not saying every single suburbanite feels that way but most do and its no secret

Noise states it quite well!
Yes there are haters out there just like there many of you suburb haters. But not all suburbanites are in the neat little box you want to put them. As for your comment "you'll get shot" you could not have been more clueless! I could be one of the biggest Detroit haters as my father was murdered in the city. He was shot 3 times by six stupid idiots so they can take his car to a party. The sad part was my father was helping to provide thousands of jobs for metro area residents both in and out the city through his work. I choose not to hate but look beyond the actions of the 6. His name was Benjamin Gravel and you can look up the history he was shot Feb. of 1990. I am not sure if the Freep or News still keep the incident posted anymore. Also to keep your crying to minimum I have posted about him in the past, but you were probably to busy loathing all of us suburbanites to notice.

[southen]

thank you! Denying that most suburbanites loathe Detroit is ridiculous! I've heard the hate time and time again myself. "Don't go to Detroit, you'll get shot" "oh I stay far away from the city too many thugs" etc I'm not making this up. This attitude is the main reason I myself have grown to dislike the Metro area. Going to a Tigers game and bar downtown or restaurant in midtown doesn't change this either. Now lets ask how many suburbanites how many of them have gone to new shops, restaurants etc that aren't in the comfort zone of the greater downtown area? or is it filled with thugs. I'm not saying every single suburbanite feels that way but most do and its no secret

i do think there is a big difference between ignorance and hate, that's the point I was trying to make. few people truly hate the city, but many people don't know any better and just continue the stereotype. that's my experience at least growing up in rochester.

[m b v]

...the united states into one homogenized country. Cities aren't what they once were. I feel like you overpay to live in a place that people think they're so unique and different but in the end, they're all the same.

VERY true. But Chicago, NYC and LA/SF are [[homogenized) destinations full like minded educated peers. Detroit could be full of great restaurants, high end condos and everything else that makes Chicago nightlife great, but it will NEVER have the annual deluge of grads from Ann Arbor, Chapel Hill, Urbana-Champaign, Evanston, and on and on. Good luck stopping that snowball. Kids from good colleges want to mingle with other smart good looking kids, not unemployed bridge card users in Detroit.

And seperately, but also related, Detroit will also NEVER have the world class elite universities that bring in tens of thousands of elite students and professionals:

Chicago: U of Chicago, Northwestern, Depaul
NYC: Columbia, NYU on and on
LA: USC, UCLA, Pepperdine
Detroit: Wayne St, Oakland?

[Bham1982]

VERY true. But Chicago, NYC and LA/SF are [[homogenized) destinations full like minded educated peers. Detroit could be full of great restaurants, high end condos and everything else that makes Chicago nightlife great, but it will NEVER have the annual deluge of grads from Ann Arbor, Chapel Hill, Urbana-Champaign, Evanston, and on and on. Good luck stopping that snowball. Kids from good colleges want to mingle with other smart good looking kids, not unemployed bridge card users in Detroit.

And seperately, but also related, Detroit will also NEVER have the world class elite universities that bring in tens of thousands of elite students and professionals:

Chicago: U of Chicago, Northwestern, Depaul
NYC: Columbia, NYU on and on
LA: USC, UCLA, Pepperdine
Detroit: Wayne St, Oakland?

More of the same Chicago-boosterism. "Chicago isn't in the Midwest, I swear!".

Of course, you conveniently forget suburban UofM for Detroit, while including suburban Northwestern for Chicago, label little-known DePaul as "elite", and try to group Chicago with [[very different) NYC & SF while trying to separate it from [[very similar) Detroit.

Chicago and Detroit are very similar. Chicago and San Francisco are very different. No rationalizing of DePaul = Stanford, or Northwestern [[in the suburbs) or Chicago [[in the South Side hood) as magically impacting downtown will change this fact. There's a reason Chicagoland is so cheap and the Bay Area is so expensive.