Bridge Company is at It again.

[Shollin]

All Mouron is is a speculator. If rail transit ever returned to Detroit, he would own Detroit's only major rail station just like he has a monopoly on Detroit's international crossing. He had no intentions of doing anything with the building.

[southen]

Just imagine if people stayed out of it and did not trash it , he proably still could have do it for 30 mil instead of 100 mil.

Thats just justifying and not excepting personal responsibility , but expecting others to.

so personal responsibility only applies to vandals, not billionaires? buy an iconic building that has meaning to detroiters, refuse to do basic maintenance and its the vandals fault? why should the people who aided in its deterioration have more respect for the place than the owner?

[Shollin]

Just imagine if people stayed out of it and did not trash it , he proably still could have do it for 30 mil instead of 100 mil.

Thats just justifying and not excepting personal responsibility , but expecting others to.

Your logic makes no sense. If someone breaks my window I replace it and not throw my hands in the air and say well I didn't break it so I'm not going to fix it. If Mouron did something with the building from the get go, it wouldn't be as damaged as it is. People don't scrap from occupied buildings as much as they do from abandoned ones and don't act like all the damage is from vandals. The building has also experienced natural deterioration from lack of normal maintenance.

[p69rrh51]

that's what people say who make crap up. "I know what I'm talking about but don't have to share it with you!" that always flies on this site right?

no I think anyone with eyeballs knows more on this than you. an agenda? I started visiting these places as an architecture major documenting long before shooting for a living. just curious, where did I mention ruin porn or even photographing these places? I was talking about viewing the structure over a period of time from a vantage of significance. jabs at age and my profession and I'm the one with an agenda? interesting. good to know you're trying to enter a pissing match with someone so "young"

just so were clear, when it gets to the point where it's just a steel skeleton sitting there you're going to say its in as good of shape?

Everything flies on this sight! Your side and my side are not the whole story and never will be. With Matty's company being private there is another side we will never know about! If you cannot handle that then stop reading my posts.
I am bored and you sound a little annoyed that is why I am enjoying jousting with you!
As for the structure if the backbone is bad the rest cannot stand. The backbone of the station is not bad. I do spend time observing at the exterior sheathing and the stone is in pretty good condition[[unlike other structures around town I have not heard of the MCS dropping any of its exterior maybe you have). The items that can be replaced such as the rusting exterior non load bearing steel are in need of attention.

[Richard]

abandoning the building and not securing is the fault of taggers and scrapers now? why did this place become a target? the billionaire was overcome by kids with spray cans? that can't possibly be your argument. it's a miracle that not every building was destroyed and scrapped.

Once again I have toured 5 different factories in different states equal to the vintage and size of Packard ,hardly a window busted out ,machinery still in place after 40 years , no boarded up windows at best a chain and padlock on the front doors.Why did they survive but not in Detroit.

Name one building in the city that is empty and not targeted other then Freep.
The fire station lasted what 2 days?Before it was hit.

Why did it become a target? Have you ever been in there without permission and photographed ? If so maybe you can explain why it was targeted or why you made that decision.

The problem with urban exploring is the Internet , in the past it was low keyed and underground , now post a picture on the Internet and you get every nutcase from across the globe that comes and shows no respect to the code and the destruction begins.

I do not justify anything but to place blame on one person because of a system is ,I cannot even think up a good word for it because it is so far out in left.

But as usual it is those that dislike the city the most that choose to dirvet from the topic at hand .

Just think for one nano second if you for once could turn all of that money and power around or give it a chance to help the city what mountains you could move

Thats the challenge, I believe he cares more then most think for the city and just maybe if asked for a good cause he may surprise you.

He is proably no different then anybody else , you come at them attacking then expect a fight.

[southen]

Everything flies on this sight! Your side and my side are not the whole story and never will be. With Matty's company being private there is another side we will never know about! If you cannot handle that then stop reading my posts.
I am bored and you sound a little annoyed that is why I am enjoying jousting with you!
As for the structure if the backbone is bad the rest cannot stand. The backbone of the station is not bad. I do spend time observing at the exterior sheathing and the stone is in pretty good condition[[unlike other structures around town I have not heard of the MCS dropping any of its exterior maybe you have). The items that can be replaced such as the rusting exterior non load bearing steel are in need of attention.

well at least you admit your argument is based on nothing, just speculation that matty may have some mysterious answers. great argument btw.

youve fallen back on boredom twice now for this thread. nobody will ever accept that answer as an explanation for stupidity and you should craft a better argument so you don't have to fall back on that as a reason you say what you do.

the debate wasn't, "does mcs have good bones?" it was "did matty's neglect have an adverse effect on the building?" and the answer is yes. his ownership has made rehab that much tougher and more expensive. you keep changing the argument or bringing up pointless things like the state of the upper floors from the 70s. he turned a mildly difficult rehab when he bought it into one that's almost impossible. to act like he isn't at fault or that fixing it up today won't cost much more than when he purchased it is just foolish.

you can get your rocks off jousting with some other younger guy, I'm done with this conversation.

[southen]

Once again I have toured 5 different factories in different states equal to the vintage and size of Packard ,hardly a window busted out ,machinery still in place after 40 years , no boarded up windows at best a chain and padlock on the front doors.Why did they survive but not in Detroit.

Name one building in the city that is empty and not targeted other then Freep.
The fire station lasted what 2 days?Before it was hit.

Why did it become a target? Have you ever been in there without permission and photographed ? If so maybe you can explain why it was targeted or why you made that decision.

The problem with urban exploring is the Internet , in the past it was low keyed and underground , now post a picture on the Internet and you get every nutcase from across the globe that comes and shows no respect to the code and the destruction begins.

I do not justify anything but to place blame on one person because of a system is ,I cannot even think up a good word for it because it is so far out in left.

But as usual it is those that dislike the city the most that choose to dirvet from the topic at hand .

Just think for one nano second if you for once could turn all of that money and power around or give it a chance to help the city what mountains you could move

Thats the challenge, I believe he cares more then most think for the city and just maybe if asked for a good cause he may surprise you.

He is proably no different then anybody else , you come at them attacking then expect a fight.

matty has ran a business in the city for how many years and your argument is that he just needs a chance to be presented with a worthwhile cause? how bout starting with not being a slumlord.

in 2007 the Whitney building was open toscrappers for a period of time. The owners found out, sealed it up and hired a security guard and the place was preserved for the rehabilitation we see happening now. that's what responsible owners do. you can't preach personal responsibility with the people ruining the places when the owner can't fix a fence or hire security for his enormous building. I'm pretty sure he could afford it.

[Richard]

so personal responsibility only applies to vandals, not billionaires? buy an iconic building that has meaning to detroiters, refuse to do basic maintenance and its the vandals fault? why should the people who aided in its deterioration have more respect for the place than the owner?

Wow that is how Detroiters treat buildings that have meaning to them? Tag them,burn them to the ground,scrap them,push trucks off of the rooftops and brag about it.interesting way of showing thier city some love mindset.

I am glad I found this site and found out not all Detroiters are like that,it just is really sad that a few self centered people ruined it for so many generations to come.

[p69rrh51]

well at least you admit your argument is based on nothing, just speculation that matty may have some mysterious answers. great argument btw.

youve fallen back on boredom twice now for this thread. nobody will ever accept that answer as an explanation for stupidity and you should craft a better argument so you don't have to fall back on that as a reason you say what you do.

the debate wasn't, "does mcs have good bones?" it was "did matty's neglect have an adverse effect on the building?" and the answer is yes. his ownership has made rehab that much tougher and more expensive. you keep changing the argument or bringing up pointless things like the state of the upper floors from the 70s. he turned a mildly difficult rehab when he bought it into one that's almost impossible. to act like he isn't at fault or that fixing it up today won't cost much more than when he purchased it is just foolish.

you can get your rocks off jousting with some other younger guy, I'm done with this conversation.

I love the nitpicking! My arguments must strike some cord with you as you keep coming back, or is it your know it all complex? Must be the complex because everything has be your way and everyone else's opinion except those that follow your party line are wrong.
My debate-is the MCS salvageable and yes it is! Has Matty's lack of maintenance hurt yes! But as we have seen with other neglected buildings the most any structurally sound building can be restored. Last I NEVER stated any rehab costs or that Matty was not at fault for his part in the deteration of the MCS or the bridge. Please read more carefully you miss so much when you are looking at things through your me only world.
Since you are gone now we can have a real debate.

[old guy]

Attachment 18861
Just a suggestion.

[p69rrh51]

Attachment 18861
Just a suggestion.

Thx old guy unfortunately Valium does not play well with my diabetes. On the other hand this is perfect,

[Richard]

matty has ran a business in the city for how many years and your argument is that he just needs a chance to be presented with a worthwhile cause? how bout starting with not being a slumlord.

in 2007 the Whitney building was open toscrappers for a period of time. The owners found out, sealed it up and hired a security guard and the place was preserved for the rehabilitation we see happening now. that's what responsible owners do. you can't preach personal responsibility with the people ruining the places when the owner can't fix a fence or hire security for his enormous building. I'm pretty sure he could afford it.

We can bounce this ball back and forth all night long ,I will allways respect your opinions and you are just as intitled to them as i am,but it is here and now and the city is being poised to move forward.

The question is are we going to let personal hatreds cloud our judgement in moving the city forward in a strong way.

Set the hatred aside because the decisions made in the next year will change the city for generations to come , it is in your hands and your civic responsibility to make decisions that are in the citys best interest as a whole.

I presented an opinion based on my personal research ,I took that research and compiled it to create an image of where I would see the city in 5 years time and Ten years time,this was my personal agenda to see if as an outside investor it was worth it to invest large scale in the city of Detroit ,my scope is rail based manufacturing .

I take currant ills in concideration and what it takes to resolve them as a cost of doing buisness and having a educated and content work force and a nice place where my grandchildren could be raised.

Sometimes I operate in different circles then most and look at things a bit different,I have been in contact with DIBC Mr Morouns right hand man and they were nothing but polite and offered assistance when nobody else that are at the same level or even the city would because of thier little agendas.

I am into street car manufacturing and that would have no way benifited DIBC thier offer of assistance tells me of where thier stance is in the city and actuallyent a lot to me at that point.

I gave my opinion here based on my thoughts of other things proposed in the future and how they effect the city which in turn would effect me and my family relocated and my funders investment .

If I see something that I feel is a threat to the city now and in the future , I am going to say and do and support in anyway that I can be it within the city or dc what ever it takes.

But that is just me and my opinion and nobody has to agree with it , just look at all sides , big picture and small , now and in the future and make your decisions based on that and not based on the past, yes it happened , it is not my place to say what happened in the past is right or wrong ,other then historic buildings being destroyed I don't care .

Look at everything without the hatered and make decisions based on a fresh start.The city now needs you more then ever to be clear headed and it needs your help to make solid decisions for the future.It can be done.

[Honky Tonk]

Attachment 18861
Just a suggestion.

Uhhhhhhh, Can I take you up on your suggestion, please?

[jt1]

Let's ignore the MCS and bridge for a moment and talk about [[a) how he cheated his siblings out of ownership stake in their father's company [[2) the number of homes he has bought in SW Detroit and let rot [[this isn't speculation, it is nothing more than to lower property values) [[3) the fake eviction notices his company posted on houses last year.

Should we go on because there are a number of other things beyond MCS and the bridge kerfuffle that make him a horrible, horrible person.

[Hermod]

Maroun isn't technically a "slumlord" milking properties for their cash flow while doing minimal maintenance. He is "warehousing" land in the hopes that the land and locations will be worth a lot someday. At least you can view it as that he does have some hope of Detroit coming back and being worth something more than zero someday in the future.

[Wesley Mouch]

We can bounce this ball back and forth all night long ,I will allways respect your opinions and you are just as intitled to them as i am,but it is here and now and the city is being poised to move forward.

...

Look at everything without the hatered and make decisions based on a fresh start.The city now needs you more then ever to be clear headed and it needs your help to make solid decisions for the future.It can be done.

I agree 100%. Hatred gets us nowhere.

Nice that you had a great conversation with Maroun. That also means nothing. I hear Bernie Madoff was a most gracious host as well. Didn't make him less harmful.

[Richard]

I agree 100%. Hatred gets us nowhere.

Nice that you had a great conversation with Maroun. That also means nothing. I hear Bernie Madoff was a most gracious host as well. Didn't make him less harmful.

Where have I ever posted that I had a conversation with him ?

Like Hermod I would view him more as a speculator, properties by the proposed airport expansion,in the path of the proposed new bridge,much like in many cities you look at future growth plans and invest cheaply that's the way it works.

The question would be if he is currant on the taxes much unlike some of the other speculators who own a lot more property and prefer to stay in the shadows?

[Richard]

Let's ignore the MCS and bridge for a moment and talk about [[a) how he cheated his siblings out of ownership stake in their father's company [[2) the number of homes he has bought in SW Detroit and let rot [[this isn't speculation, it is nothing more than to lower property values) [[3) the fake eviction notices his company posted on houses last year.

Should we go on because there are a number of other things beyond MCS and the bridge kerfuffle that make him a horrible, horrible person.

The whole OP was about the bridge but as usual it turns into a build the bridge because he is a bad man and now we get payback ,kinda like KK mentality I'm gonna get mine no matter what the aftermath is. No wonder.Must be the water.

[jt1]

The whole OP was about the bridge but as usual it turns into a build the bridge because he is a bad man and now we get payback ,kinda like KK mentality I'm gonna get mine no matter what the aftermath is. No wonder.Must be the water.

Absolute bullshit. My post was in response to the people insisting we want the state bridge because we dislike Maroun or we are complaining about the MCS because we don't like Maroun when we have never met him.

My dislike of him has nothing to do with the bridge or the MCS, it is his many other dealings that have proven time and time again that he has done a significant number of things that have harmed people in the city [[as well as his family).

I'm not saying build the bridge because he is a bad guy. I am saying he is a bad guy, regardless of the bridge or the MCS. You have absolutely no idea the lengths that he has gone to increase his wealth. In that time he has cheated his own family, he has done everything he could to destroy neighborhoods, he has ignored the well being of neighborhoods, destroyed businesses, etc.

Don't you dare stick up for the man or question others motives when you have no idea of the harm he has done to individuals and communities.

As for it 'must be the water', no, it is more the air. Ya know, the air that he has polluted in SE Detroit for a long time because he didn't want to finish his work connecting the bridge to the freeway. The air [[along with Marathon and Zug Island) that have contributed to an obscene number of cases of children with asthma and other health conditions.

As far as I'm concerned, anyone with the ability to read, that would even remotely stick up for him is either on the take or just foolish.

If another bridge is never built I am fine with it. If he never does anything with the MCS, fine. Those are structures. I wish death upon him for the damage that he has done to real, living people.

[p69rrh51]

Absolute bullshit. My post was in response to the people insisting we want the state bridge because we dislike Maroun or we are complaining about the MCS because we don't like Maroun when we have never met him.

My dislike of him has nothing to do with the bridge or the MCS, it is his many other dealings that have proven time and time again that he has done a significant number of things that have harmed people in the city [[as well as his family).

I'm not saying build the bridge because he is a bad guy. I am saying he is a bad guy, regardless of the bridge or the MCS. You have absolutely no idea the lengths that he has gone to increase his wealth. In that time he has cheated his own family, he has done everything he could to destroy neighborhoods, he has ignored the well being of neighborhoods, destroyed businesses, etc.

Don't you dare stick up for the man or question others motives when you have no idea of the harm he has done to individuals and communities.

As for it 'must be the water', no, it is more the air. Ya know, the air that he has polluted in SE Detroit for a long time because he didn't want to finish his work connecting the bridge to the freeway. The air [[along with Marathon and Zug Island) that have contributed to an obscene number of cases of children with asthma and other health conditions.

As far as I'm concerned, anyone with the ability to read, that would even remotely stick up for him is either on the take or just foolish.

If another bridge is never built I am fine with it. If he never does anything with the MCS, fine. Those are structures. I wish death upon him for the damage that he has done to real, living people.

jt1 could you fill us in on what he has done to his family?

[Wesley Mouch]

Where have I ever posted that I had a conversation with him ?

Sorry -- my mistake.

...snip...The question would be if he is currant on the taxes much unlike some of the other speculators who own a lot more property and prefer to stay in the shadows?

Doesn't matter is he's current. The law allows you to be behind and recover your property if you wish later. Stupid law -- but blame council who might think about working on this rather than fighting away any outside help on principle.

[Gistok]

From what I remember Maroun has 3 sisters... and quite a number of years ago they all sued him over inheritance issues... don't know the outcome of that litigation.. perhaps others can fill it in...

[Richard]

Sorry -- my mistake.

Doesn't matter is he's current. The law allows you to be behind and recover your property if you wish later. Stupid law -- but blame council who might think about working on this rather than fighting away any outside help on principle.

I thank you for being the better person , accepted.

The last auction was the first under the new guidelines , which were intended to stop that aspect.

What I find interesting is that nobody had compared the results and placed accountability on the ones trying that again .so it is still unclear as if the new guidelines are in fact working.

Not towards you WM but I would think , no change that to I know ,you guys can come up with enough negivtive aspects on somebody without dragging personal family into the picture.If you wish to attack the man please leave the family out of it as it tends to become one with the level you are admonishing .Leave somethings in life sacred.

[downtownguy]

Has anyone on here ever met the man? I have a feeling a miniscule percentage of the members of this forum have ever even seen him let alone talked with him, but everyone on here acts like they know him like they know their best friend. I would suggest at least talking to the man before you call him a POS.

I agree 100%. Hatred gets us nowhere.

Nice that you had a great conversation with Maroun. That also means nothing. I hear Bernie Madoff was a most gracious host as well. Didn't make him less harmful.

Mouch, I believe you meant your comment towards me. I only brought up my two conversations with Maroun to answer p69rrh51's question if anybody had actually talked to him. As I said in my post, I found him charming in a social setting but I still don't like him.

It's interesting to me that you lecture us away from hatred, yet in an earlier post in this thread you called Maroun "a greedy fool." I only said that I didn't like him.

[Wesley Mouch]

Mouch, I believe you meant your comment towards me. I only brought up my two conversations with Maroun to answer p69rrh51's question if anybody had actually talked to him. As I said in my post, I found him charming in a social setting but I still don't like him.

It's interesting to me that you lecture us away from hatred, yet in an earlier post in this thread you called Maroun "a greedy fool." I only said that I didn't like him.

I think you're right -- confused posts. I'm sure I'm confused in many other ways too.

"Greedy fool" is simply my opinion. It is descriptive, not hateful. I don't hate him. But I also have no respect for him. A 'generous and wise man' would give to the community [[like Gates or Carnegie) and would treat his neighbors well.