"Hit Squads" in Detroit

[Bham1982]

youre smoking dope...

look at Chicago. the most stringent gun laws of ANY CITY IN AMERICA and for the past couple of years its had the HIGHEST NUMBER OF Homicides...

it aint the gun...

Your example doesn't seem to support your hypothesis.

First, Chicago doesn't have the most stringent gun laws. It actually has ridiculously lenient penalties for illegal gun possession.

Second [[and much more important) it's surrounded by jurisdictions with extremely lenient gun laws. Indiana is an absolute joke.

Obviously highly localized gun laws have little effect, because you can just go to the neighboring jurisdiction. But there's a ton of research on the matter, and gun laws do affect gun scarcity, even for the "bad guys". "Good guys" and "bad guys" are both subject to basic economic principles.

[Bham1982]

Not only isn't it the gun, how do you plan on confiscating every handgun and rifle-like weapon people own? I know fanatics that not only own an arsenal of weapons, but have cases of ammunition. Do you plan on conducting paramilitary house to house search and seizures?

I don't understand the question. Because tougher gun laws won't eliminate every single illegal gun in existence, they won't have an effect? That sounds like kind of a non-argument, that could be extended to every law on the books.

I mean, why fight to regulate chemical weapons or nuclear weapons? Why fight terrorism? What's the point? There will always be some rouge dictator with a secret stash, or crazy guy willing to kill himself, so better to do nothing, and forget any attempts at nonproliferation or mitigating tragedy?

Why even have police, or laws? There will always be someone doing something bad, right?

[Honky Tonk]

I don't understand the question. Because tougher gun laws won't eliminate every single illegal gun in existence, they won't have an effect? That sounds like kind of a non-argument, that could be extended to every law on the books.

I mean, why fight to regulate chemical weapons or nuclear weapons? Why fight terrorism? What's the point? There will always be some rouge dictator with a secret stash, or crazy guy willing to kill himself, so better to do nothing, and forget any attempts at nonproliferation or mitigating tragedy?

Why even have police, or laws? There will always be someone doing something bad, right?

Apples and oranges, my favorite mix.

[Wesley Mouch]

Not only isn't it the gun, how do you plan on confiscating every handgun and rifle-like weapon people own? I know fanatics that not only own an arsenal of weapons, but have cases of ammunition. Do you plan on conducting paramilitary house to house search and seizures?

The focus on 'gun control' presumes a simple answer to the problem. Democrats love the issue. Its divisive. But they won't address real solutions like S&F. Again, its politics. Real solutions are possible. But not while the left and right squabble over politics.

Allow reasonable limits on guns. [[Cue screams from right.)

-and-

Allow reasonable searches of suspicious persons to reduce illegal guns on the street. [[Cue screams from left.)

[Honky Tonk]

The focus on 'gun control' presumes a simple answer to the problem. Democrats love the issue. Its divisive. But they won't address real solutions like S&F. Again, its politics. Real solutions are possible. But not while the left and right squabble over politics.

Allow reasonable limits on guns. [[Cue screams from right.)

-and-

Allow reasonable searches of suspicious persons to reduce illegal guns on the street. [[Cue screams from left.)

I agree with your statement, and agree on tighter regulations for acquisition of weapons, and a limit on types of weaponry that can be owned. I just seriously doubt that @ the height of the gun plague, a simple vaccination is going to cure it.

[Wesley Mouch]

I agree with your statement, and agree on tighter regulations for acquisition of weapons, and a limit on types of weaponry that can be owned. I just seriously doubt that @ the height of the gun plague, a simple vaccination is going to cure it.

A line of thinking today is that crime is indeed like disease. And treating it thus suggests that you do the same type of things. Not just medication, but rest, good food, avoid infected people, good hygiene, etc.

Gun violence can be treated -- but there's no silver bullet!

[Wesley Mouch]

Read the NYT article below. A gun-toting liberal's take on guns. It describes the middle ground on guns that will get us somewhere on this serious problem.

NYT - Nocera - Liberal Gun Owner

Put all your prejudices away before reading.

[ordinary]

For a good book on crime fighting, I would suggest Don't Shoot, by David Kennedy. While the crime-fighting approach in this book has many elements that are beyond the scope of a short Forum post, one basis for the approach taken was that research demonstrated that it is often a small number of repeat offfenders who are responsible for a disproportionate amount of crime. So I would not be surprised if most of Detroit's worst crimes are committed by a relatively small number of people.

I heard him [[David Kennedy) being interviewed on Fresh Air. I went out and bought the book. He also stated that most of the people involved with the gangs and such would like to get the hell out of it. Have any of his methods been tried in Detroit?

[Wesley Mouch]

I heard him [[David Kennedy) being interviewed on Fresh Air. I went out and bought the book. He also stated that most of the people involved with the gangs and such would like to get the hell out of it. Have any of his methods been tried in Detroit?

Here's a brief description of his ideas from The New Yorker.

I noted that his approach requires the police to have the discretion to deliver 'punishment [[that would be) would be swift and severe and target the entire gang'.

Very interesting ideas that deserve consideration.

[p69rrh51]

If I remember 80% of crime is committed by 20% of the criminals. I say lock up that 20% and throw away the key, while providing the programs necessary to help the other 80%.

[MSUguy]

youre smoking dope...

look at Chicago. the most stringent gun laws of ANY CITY IN AMERICA and for the past couple of years its had the HIGHEST NUMBER OF Homicides...

it aint the gun...

It has a lot do with guns and NRA nuts are perfectly happy to allow this type of activity because these guns aren't flowing into their lilly white neighborhoods.

As he sold four handguns in a South Side parking lot last year, Levaine Tanksley boasted to his customer that there were plenty more illicit weapons available, investigators say.
"Twenty-five more in four hours," Tanksley told his customer, who was secretly working for law enforcement and recording the conversation. "Give me $5,000 and you can put your order in then. I'll get you whatever, give me a list."

As Tanksley, who police say has ties to a Chicago street gang, made his sales pitch, David Lewisbey was stocking up on more weapons at a gun show 40 miles away in Crown Point, Ind., one of several trips he made across the state border and back in little more than a day, according to federal authorities. Five hours later, Lewisbey, an unlikely gun trafficker then enrolled in college, was back in Chicago as Tanksley made good on his promise and sold the informant nine more guns, authorities allege.

A federal indictment charges the two with illegally selling 43 firearms to the government informant in just under 26 hours, a volume made possible by gun shows and less restrictive state laws in Indiana, by far the No. 1 source of out-of-state guns used in crimes in Cook County. Private gun sales in Indiana don't require background checks, a waiting period or even a record of the transaction.

The scheme exposed by law enforcement illustrates the tidal wave of illegal guns confronting Chicago police as they battle surging numbers of homicides and shootings. With the country poised to respond to gun violence stretching from a first-grade classroom in Newtown, Conn., to Harsh Park on Chicago's South Side, allegations of the duo's lucrative enterprise provide a textbook example of how criminals can exploit existing gun laws to put society's most vulnerable at even greater risk.
"[[Lewisbey) would go travel to Indiana, to these gun shows where he would load up literally a duffel bag, go from table to table paying in cash, large amounts of cash … before returning right into the worst neighborhoods of Chicago," Assistant U.S. Attorney Christopher Parente said at a recent detention hearing in federal court. "He would sell them literally in the back alley and on the side streets."

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...gun-trafficker