Gilbert's Plan: Downtown Detroit as a Pedestrian Paradise

[southen]

Detroit will not become a vibrant walk able city until they decide to build shops, bars and restaurants along its beautiful river front property. I know this would be a massive shift of where current development is taking place but one only needs to look at other cities such as Pittsburgh Baltimore, San Francisco...etc to see that this a move that would bring people of all walks into the city [[not just Mid-town)...let some deep pockets [[Dan Gilbert) explore this idea and see what they come up with, in 25 years you would have a brand new city....and maybe just maybe everyone wouldn't still be wrapped around the axle of racial divide

the riverfront has incredible potential and will definitely be redeveloped in the future, what we need to focus on right now though is downtown and making that more lively. i vibrant downtown makes the riverfront that much more appealing for developers and potential residents.

[noggin]

Actually it is similar to San Francisco. One can take the cable car from the downtown area to fisherman's wharf. Sounds alot like the M1 trolley.

[downtownguy]

Detroit will not become a vibrant walk able city until they decide to build shops, bars and restaurants along its beautiful river front property.

Yeah, with names like Soup Kitchen Saloon, Woodbridge Tavern, Rhinoceros, Rivertown Saloon and Franklin Street Brewing Company! Oh, wait...

[Detroitnerd]

The scary thing is, Nerd, that I am finding myself in your corner on this one. it looks almost like a Potemkin village. Lets leave this stuff for Walt Disney and concentrate on commerce. Stores will come if it is profitable and they won't come if shrinkage, government corruption, and lack of traffic discourage them.

That IS scary, Hermod!

[tetsua]

I don't know... in Minneapolis one of the main avenues downtown is closed to traffic [[except hybrid buses and taxis) and it works really well. There are food trucks, a weekly farmers market, lots of out door seating for restaurants, etc. The busiest and most popular bars and restaurants are on that street, so it doesn't seem to hurt business.

I agree, it's also done in Manhattan, and Vienna AU. I'd personally love to see it in more cities

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...lectedIndex=11

[DetroitPlanner]

I agree, it's also done in Manhattan, and Vienna AU. I'd personally love to see it in more cities

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...lectedIndex=11

Woodward Mall was open to Busses and Cabs only in the 1970's it only resulted in a worse environment for business. That was a common theme. You can look at several other Michigan Cities that did the same thing [[Jackson, Battle Creek, Kalamazoo, Lansing, Muskegon [[heck they even put a roof over main street!)) What do all these places have in common today? Main Street is open to traffic and the stores are getting filled, some faster than others.

In order for this to work, its simply not just closing down streets. You need to understand that you need to market the area, make sure that it is clean, and have ample funds to pay for things such as entertainment.

[casscorridor]

Nice open, airy retail space at the 1001 Skyscraper.

Ever since the first time I heard the Apple store rumor, I thought this would be a good location... problem was, Gilbert didn't own that building. Now he does, who wants to place bets on whether Apple will set up shop on this most prominent of corners?

[detlump]

I've got to say I've been impressed with the speed and scope Gilbert has. Compared to Gilbert, Illitch has been sitting on his hands. I wonder if Mike is a little chafed that Gilbert gets all the press accolades about the rebirth of Detroit. That being said, Mike has had a lot more time to do something, and has similar means to Gilbert.

I do feel little apprehensive with regard to Quicken. At least with Illitch, he has tangible assets - sports teams, franchises, etc. Gilbert just moves paper around. He doesn't produce anything tangible. I just hope that it's all not just a house of cards. Time will tell as always.

[southen]

gilbert owns the cleveland cavaliers and two casinos...

[stasu1213]

I've got to say I've been impressed with the speed and scope Gilbert has. Compared to Gilbert, Illitch has been sitting on his hands. I wonder if Mike is a little chafed that Gilbert gets all the press accolades about the rebirth of Detroit. That being said, Mike has had a lot more time to do something, and has similar means to Gilbert.

I do feel little apprehensive with regard to Quicken. At least with Illitch, he has tangible assets - sports teams, franchises, etc. Gilbert just moves paper around. He doesn't produce anything tangible. I just hope that it's all not just a house of cards. Time will tell as always.

I think that Illitch was sitting on his hands waiting for someone such as Gilbert to get the ball rolling downtown. Now Illitch would probably take the mantle and get or finish his projects. Gilbert had brought the people back downtown. Magic Johnson better get his hands in the pot. Maybe he could open a NBA store downtown

[detmsp]

Woodward Mall was open to Busses and Cabs only in the 1970's it only resulted in a worse environment for business. That was a common theme. You can look at several other Michigan Cities that did the same thing [[Jackson, Battle Creek, Kalamazoo, Lansing, Muskegon [[heck they even put a roof over main street!)) What do all these places have in common today? Main Street is open to traffic and the stores are getting filled, some faster than others.

In order for this to work, its simply not just closing down streets. You need to understand that you need to market the area, make sure that it is clean, and have ample funds to pay for things such as entertainment.

What exactly is your point here? The plan is not "simply closing down streets". All I'm getting out of this post is "If they do a bad job, it will be bad. They have to do a good job for it to be good."

[gthomas]

Ever since the first time I heard the Apple store rumor, I thought this would be a good location... problem was, Gilbert didn't own that building. Now he does, who wants to place bets on whether Apple will set up shop on this most prominent of corners?

I agree, that will be a perfect spot for a Apple store! [[Fingers Crossed)

[313WX]

I know I'm always the downer around here, but I'll say it anyway.

Isn't there something strange about this?

A developer buys all these downtown buildings, each of which likely gets a tax abatement attached to it. This is a way of transferring the money from a poor city to a rich landowner.

The city lacks the wealth to come up with an ambitious plan for downtown, largely because of tax abatements and subsidies to going concerns and developers.

And then the private developer unveils the plan he'd prefer for downtown, which will enrich him further, with no public input into the design.

Bless or damn Gilbert's intentions, doesn't this seem a little too Delta City?

See the thread about Robocop predicting Detroit's future [[almost) to a tee.

[old guy]

Possible. But seems like a long shot, roundabout way for an investor in this type of economy. Wouldn't it be easier to invest somewhere else in something with a solid predictable future? Why take the risk?

[old guy]

There just seems to be something missing between Detroitnerds 4th. and 5th. sentences. Seems like a long way to travel to reach a goal that could be achieved in a simpler way.

[ElbertHanks]

I've got to say I've been impressed with the speed and scope Gilbert has. Compared to Gilbert, Illitch has been sitting on his hands. I wonder if Mike is a little chafed that Gilbert gets all the press accolades about the rebirth of Detroit. That being said, Mike has had a lot more time to do something, and has similar means to Gilbert.

I do feel little apprehensive with regard to Quicken. At least with Illitch, he has tangible assets - sports teams, franchises, etc. Gilbert just moves paper around. He doesn't produce anything tangible. I just hope that it's all not just a house of cards. Time will tell as always.

Last time I checked Gilbert owned the Cavaliers. Even though they suck [[about as much as the Pistons) you do still count them as a sports team don't you?

I suppose maybe he put an offer on Dominoes and try go tit-for-tat with Mr. I. Casinos, pizza and sports what else do you really need to make a city great?

[royce]

The issue about what to do at the intersection of Jefferson and Woodward has troubled me since Gilbert explained what could happen with the space. People just walking in the area and sharing it with cars makes no sense. Cars are moving too fast along Jefferson to have that happen. Now what I could see happen is that you move the Joe Louis fist statue and eliminate the Woodward median between Jefferson and Larned. Widen the sidewalks on both sides of Woodward between those two streets, reducing the car lanes in the area to just two on each side. The median on Jefferson, east of Woodward would be extended westward to line up with the widened sidewalks on Woodward and you'd have to eliminate the ability of cars coming off the freeway to turn left onto Woodward. It would make the area somewhat more pedestrian friendly but you still have to deal with the width of Jefferson, which is not pedestrian friendly.

[Detroit68]

The issue about what to do at the intersection of Jefferson and Woodward has troubled me since Gilbert explained what could happen with the space. People just walking in the area and sharing it with cars makes no sense. Cars are moving too fast along Jefferson to have that happen. Now what I could see happen is that you move the Joe Louis fist statue and eliminate the Woodward median between Jefferson and Larned. Widen the sidewalks on both sides of Woodward between those two streets, reducing the car lanes in the area to just two on each side. The median on Jefferson, east of Woodward would be extended westward to line up with the widened sidewalks on Woodward and you'd have to eliminate the ability of cars coming off the freeway to turn left onto Woodward. It would make the area somewhat more pedestrian friendly but you still have to deal with the width of Jefferson, which is not pedestrian friendly.

Agreed. Not a big fan of "free for all" approach in which traffic is halted completely and pedestrians can cross in any direction. I would prefer a ped bridge or tunnel similar to the method used in Chicago to connect neighborhoods to the lake [[i.e., Oak Street beach tunnel under Lake Shore Dr. or Fullerton bridge). There are several ped tunnels that go under under Michigan Ave. including one to access Millennium park

[Hermod]

I agree, that will be a perfect spot for a Apple store! [[Fingers Crossed)

Nah, when MonCon gets out of the slammer, she will open up a high-end wig shop there.

[Honky Tonk]

Nah, when MonCon gets out of the slammer, she will open up a high-end wig shop there.

A.) She IS out of the slammer. B.) She's working in a bump shop on MI Ave., [[and doing QUITE WELL according to the owner). http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...RO01/303170316 So I'm thinking maybe a chop-shop?

[AuburnSpeedster]

Agreed. Not a big fan of "free for all" approach in which traffic is halted completely and pedestrians can cross in any direction. I would prefer a ped bridge or tunnel similar to the method used in Chicago to connect neighborhoods to the lake [[i.e., Oak Street beach tunnel under Lake Shore Dr. or Fullerton bridge). There are several ped tunnels that go under under Michigan Ave. including one to access Millennium park

I really like the bridge idea, something along the lines of the twin bridges outside the student union at the University of Minnesota is exactly what I'd picture here. http://www.ryancompanies.com/upload/...dgeMain-Lg.jpg Here there are two that both curve making it almost appear as an oval. If it was done that way you wouldn't even have to move the Joe Louis fist! It could be surrounded by the bridges and the pedestrians could look down on it on both sides.

Or you could always move it, too. Just throwing out ideas. Haha

[Hermod]

I really like the bridge idea, something along the lines of the twin bridges outside the student union at the University of Minnesota is exactly what I'd picture here. http://www.ryancompanies.com/upload/...dgeMain-Lg.jpg Here there are two that both curve making it almost appear as an oval. If it was done that way you wouldn't even have to move the Joe Louis fist! It could be surrounded by the bridges and the pedestrians could look down on it on both sides.

Or you could always move it, too. Just throwing out ideas. Haha

Bridges and tunnels are not ADA friendly. You need elevators if you do a bridge or tunnel.

[mikeg19]

I don't know how feasible it'd be with the Ren Cen and a redesigned Hart Plaza, but I'd bury Jefferson Ave and open that entire area up for parkspace, pop up shops, food trucks, retail, etc. Kinda like Boston did with the Big Dig in burying the freeway. Again, massive undertaking and a ton of money, but if they could pull something like that off, it could rival Millennium Park in Chicago if done correctly. Then Gilbert's vision of making lower Woodward to the Riverwalk more pedestrian friendly makes more sense, to me at least.

[AuburnSpeedster]

Bridges and tunnels are not ADA friendly. You need elevators if you do a bridge or tunnel.

Well the way that they do it in Minnesota is that it's curved like a hill so wheel chairs are able to cross it fine. But I see your point at the same time. I do like that "big dig" idea that mikeg suggested though. We'd only really need to do a very very short stretch of it to work, however, isn't there that underground parking garage there?

[DetroitPlanner]

What exactly is your point here? The plan is not "simply closing down streets". All I'm getting out of this post is "If they do a bad job, it will be bad. They have to do a good job for it to be good."

Read the works of William White and Victor Gruen.

This was also tried along State Street in Chicago and was a abysmal failure. Hudson's and many other stores closed when the pedestrian mall was put in on Woodward. What I said was you need to do more than just block off streets. Sometimes the spaces created by closed streets are far to large for the interaction needed to make the place a 'third place' We do have a successful one with campus martius, you just can't replicate that everywhere or no where will be special and you will have mobility issues [[getting people and goods to stores).

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/nei.../1929/#slide11