"We need to stop BS-ing ourselves" - Mayor Bing, on opposing action to appeal EM

[corktownyuppie]

Well put, Mayor Bing.

http://www.freep.com/article/2013030...text|FRONTPAGE

[Smirnoff]

See Ya City Council.....you will be EFM's 1st move in eliminating waste. Good luck finding work in the public sector [[LMAO)!

[DetroitPlanner]

See Ya City Council.....you will be EFM's 1st move in eliminating waste. Good luck finding work in the public sector [[LMAO)!

they already work in the public sector.....

[Islandman]

Dammit, I just want it to begin at this point.

Yes, I understand how it hasn't worked anywhere else, but i would hope that Detroit's "visibility' on the world's stage may make the end result a bit different.

One can hope right.......?

[Flintoid]

Dammit, I just want it to begin at this point.

Yes, I understand how it hasn't worked anywhere else, but i would hope that Detroit's "visibility' on the world's stage may make the end result a bit different.

One can hope right.......?

I am very confused as to how this hasn't worked anywhere else. Examples;

Pontiac: Police response times have gone from 76 minute average to just over 9 minutes. Fire services now partner with Waterford. Downtown has seen a dramatic increase in redevelopment. Leased out excess space at water facility to erase long term debt obligations, freeing city taxes to pay for services not debt.

Flint: Balanced city budget while adding to police and fire department thanks to a 6 mill ballot proposal. Privatized management of previously closed and abandoned golf courses. Privatized trash collection to save city $1 million annually and add recycling. Created OPRA redevelopment district for a dozen downtown properties. Removed Genesee Towers [[major liability) from the city's books and gave it to a redevelopment firm. Rewrote 2 union contracts and negotiated 3 more to achieve cost reducations. Balanced the city's lighting and trash funds with fee changes. Moved pension liability from the city to the state.

Any one of these things would be seen as major, yet EMs have done them all in about 2 years. I will never understand this idea that EMs are an utter failure.

[Wesley Mouch]

I am very confused as to how this hasn't worked anywhere else. Examples;

Pontiac: Police response times have gone from 76 minute average to just over 9 minutes. Fire services now partner with Waterford. Downtown has seen a dramatic increase in redevelopment. Leased out excess space at water facility to erase long term debt obligations, freeing city taxes to pay for services not debt.

Flint: Balanced city budget while adding to police and fire department thanks to a 6 mill ballot proposal. Privatized management of previously closed and abandoned golf courses. Privatized trash collection to save city $1 million annually and add recycling. Created OPRA redevelopment district for a dozen downtown properties. Removed Genesee Towers [[major liability) from the city's books and gave it to a redevelopment firm. Rewrote 2 union contracts and negotiated 3 more to achieve cost reductions. Balanced the city's lighting and trash funds with fee changes. Moved pension liability from the city to the state.

Any one of these things would be seen as major, yet EMs have done them all in about 2 years. I will never understand this idea that EMs are an utter failure.

One of the biggest problems we have today is that we are increasingly being sheltered from information except from our friends and associates. And they often think like we do.

I see lots of success with EFMs. But clearly others don't. Who's wrong? Would that we have a strong, independent press who everyone believed. But instead we have Fox News on one side, and BAM on the other. If you're on Obama's mailing list, you're getting information about only the failures of charter schools. If you're on Rush Limbaugh's list, you're hearing about pension abuse.

One thing I like about this forum is that it exposes me to people who DON'T agree with me. Makes me question myself.

Back to Flintoid's post: He writes " Rewrote 2 union contracts and negotiated 3 more to achieve cost reductions" I'll bet that the AFSCME union newsletter doesn't write much about the successed in Flint. And a lot about forced wages reductions.

[Honky Tonk]

One thing I like about this forum is that it exposes me to people who DON'T agree with me.

I agree.

[mam2009]

I am very confused as to how this hasn't worked anywhere else. Examples;

Pontiac: Police response times have gone from 76 minute average to just over 9 minutes. Fire services now partner with Waterford. Downtown has seen a dramatic increase in redevelopment. Leased out excess space at water facility to erase long term debt obligations, freeing city taxes to pay for services not debt.

Flint: Balanced city budget while adding to police and fire department thanks to a 6 mill ballot proposal. Privatized management of previously closed and abandoned golf courses. Privatized trash collection to save city $1 million annually and add recycling. Created OPRA redevelopment district for a dozen downtown properties. Removed Genesee Towers [[major liability) from the city's books and gave it to a redevelopment firm. Rewrote 2 union contracts and negotiated 3 more to achieve cost reducations. Balanced the city's lighting and trash funds with fee changes. Moved pension liability from the city to the state.

Any one of these things would be seen as major, yet EMs have done them all in about 2 years. I will never understand this idea that EMs are an utter failure.

What is your source for this information? Could you please provide a link or cite your source?

[corktownyuppie]

What is your source for this information? Could you please provide a link or cite your source?

I don't know where they got their info, but I've heard similar things about Pontiac. Less familiar with Flint.

Police response time down in Pontiac from an hour to six minutes since Oakland County Sheriff takeover

The group’s chairman, Pastor Douglas Jones of Welcome Missionary Baptist Church, where the Committee of 50 meets, said people in Pontiac “are feeling safer in their position.”

[Islandman]

I agree with you Flintoid, I should say that the perception is not positive.

I will say that the last time I went to Pontiac for a show at Crofoot, downtown looked like a ghost town [[like downtown Detroit used to look).

Your facts are quite compelling, and should be noted. Thanks!

[corktownyuppie]

I agree with you Flintoid, I should say that the perception is not positive.

I will say that the last time I went to Pontiac for a show at Crofoot, downtown looked like a ghost town [[like downtown Detroit used to look).

Your facts are quite compelling, and should be noted. Thanks!

Yeah, it's important to really understand what are reasonable expectations on this. I expect things to get worse before they get better....but that's not a bad thing, it's normal.

When an addict get cut off of their substance, it doesn't feel better. It feels worse. In fact, it feels like hell. Sometimes the hell is soooo bad that the only way to get through it is to take a vacation from the responsibilities of your life just so you can handle how hard it is.

And sometimes, it feels so bad, that you have to check yourself in somewhere where they will prevent you from accessing your drug long enough to where it starts to feel better, then you can rebuild from there.

Let's not kid ourselves. This will be painful. But as long as there is a viable long-term plan, this is fine. It will feel worse even as the numbers start to get better.

Then once the numbers are good enough, we can finally re-build.

[Flintoid]

Just making sure we take the facts into account I'm hopeful that we can see the same successes in Detroit. Perhaps then the perception will change.

[Detroitnerd]

Pontiac's EFM also outsourced the water department to a firm that was under indictment for violating the Clean Water Act, so ... you have to look at that side too.

[corktownyuppie]

Pontiac's EFM also outsourced the water department to a firm that was under indictment for violating the Clean Water Act, so ... you have to look at that side too.

Yes. We do. And when those things happen, they need to be addressed. But those problems don't have a causal relationship to the EFM. And I think it's reasonable for citizens of Pontiac [[and of the state, for that matter) to demand resolution to that question.

If and when they happen here in Detroit, I will be on board with fighting those decisions as well. But one doesn't equal the other, and it's reasonable that citizens demand accountability regardless of who is making the decisions.

Where I see the real problems here are when people's imaginations conflict with reality. For example, the purpose of city government is not to provide jobs. It's to perform services. I'm interested to see if that debate comes to the surface over the next 6 months.

[Detroitnerd]

Yes. We do. And when those things happen, they need to be addressed. But those problems don't have a causal relationship to the EFM. And I think it's reasonable for citizens of Pontiac [[and of the state, for that matter) to demand resolution to that question.

Right. No causal relationship there. EFM is given broad powers with no democratic oversight or control, awards contract to indicted company, and the good people of Pontiac can demand ... recall? Not elect him? Fire him? How do you fight the decisions of a person who isn't elected, and is given broad, unilateral power?

[corktownyuppie]

Right. No causal relationship there. EFM is given broad powers with no democratic oversight or control, awards contract to indicted company, and the good people of Pontiac can demand ... recall? Not elect him? Fire him? How do you fight the decisions of a person who isn't elected, and is given broad, unilateral power?

Yep.
CTY

[Jimaz]

Right. No causal relationship there. EFM is given broad powers with no democratic oversight or control, awards contract to indicted company, and the good people of Pontiac can demand ... recall? Not elect him? Fire him? How do you fight the decisions of a person who isn't elected, and is given broad, unilateral power?

Dennis The Constitutional Peasant

Strange women lying in ponds, distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.... You can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you.

Oh dear. Did I just associate Sneaky Snyder with a watery tart?

[Mark Smiles]

Right. No causal relationship there. EFM is given broad powers with no democratic oversight or control, awards contract to indicted company, and the good people of Pontiac can demand ... recall? Not elect him? Fire him? How do you fight the decisions of a person who isn't elected, and is given broad, unilateral power?

The City operates under State Law, it is not sovereign or independent of the State.

The Governor and the State Legislature are elected, The EFM will operate under their authority. Democracy is not threatened in the least.

[Detroitnerd]

The City operates under State Law, it is not sovereign or independent of the State.

The Governor and the State Legislature are elected, The EFM will operate under their authority. Democracy is not threatened in the least.

Bullshit. Utter and complete bullshit. And this shit would totally not fly unless the people whose democracy was being abrogated were majority minority.

But keep telling yourself that. I know you will.

[Detroitnerd]

Anti-democratic forces always say, "Hey, we'd LOVE to have democracy. But there are certain preconditions to democracy."

That is, frankly, bullshit.

Democracy holds that men possess inalienable rights, and that when government is destructive to their rights, the people have the right to abolish that government.

If that makes a few bondholders squeak, so much the better for it.

[Wesley Mouch]

Anti-democratic forces always say, "Hey, we'd LOVE to have democracy. But there are certain preconditions to democracy."

That is, frankly, bullshit.

Democracy holds that men possess inalienable rights, and that when government is destructive to their rights, the people have the right to abolish that government.

If that makes a few bondholders squeak, so much the better for it.

Would someone explain to me why the EFM laws are anti-demoractic. I just don't see it.

What are the inalienable rights that are being destroyed?

When you drive 70mph, you lose your right to a driver's license. When you vote leaders who spend more than you have, you lose the right to control your pocketbook.

Or a related question, if EFM is anti-democractic, is bankruptcy also anti-democratic? If not, why not?

[[This just seems like a canard to me. Wrapping bad behavior with the flag to make it seem patriotic.)

[louis]

Would someone explain to me why the EFM laws are anti-demoractic.

appointing a dictator is just a little too romanistic to be considered democratic.

[Honky Tonk]

Would someone explain to me why the EFM laws are anti-demoractic. I just don't see it.

What are the inalienable rights that are being destroyed?

When you drive 70mph, you lose your right to a driver's license. When you vote leaders who spend more than you have, you lose the right to control your pocketbook.

Or a related question, if EFM is anti-democractic, is bankruptcy also anti-democratic? If not, why not?

[[This just seems like a canard to me. Wrapping bad behavior with the flag to make it seem patriotic.)

I sure didn't vote for incompetence, the City being run into the ground, constant bickering with no apparent path forward, no accountability, mismanagement, a greater lack of services, or my tax $s being squandered. If THAT'S what YOU voted for, then you have every right to oppose the EFM.

[Detroitnerd]

Thanks for the laugh, Jimaz. "Bloody peasant!" XD

[Hypestyles]

I'm confused. There were several articles published online today between the Freep and Detnews that indicated that Bing was tentatively onboard with the Council's 11th hour counter-proposal. Then by this evening i'm hearing on WWJ that all of a sudden Bing is openly saying to just let it go. Very bizarre day.