No More Indian Mascots Allowed? Are they demeaning or empowering?

[Lowell]

I found this interesting article in Wiki about the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_Illiniwek

Again I find this sort of thing really sad because in a sense, there is an attempt at celebrating the origins of Illinois that is interpreted as an insult, thereby dragging the symbolism underground where it is no longer visible.

You would have to see this particular character perform to understand the insult. As my brother was a professor at Univ. of Illinois in his working days, I witnessed the antics of Chief Illiniwek [a full paid scholarship for the male non-Indian* actor] at a sporting event. Maybe they have changed since then, but I found them painfully embarrassing. I felt like I was watching some step-and-fetch-it black face routine while the white crowd when wild.

As the Wikipedia article cites the controversy also has sexist overtones.

Since 1926 a total of 36 different students have performed the role of the Chief. All but one have been men: one woman, Idelle [[Stith) Brooks, served in 1943 due to the shortage of male students during World War II; she was called "Princess Illiniwek." *No student portraying Chief Illiniwek was of American Indian heritage during the 82 year span, although Brooks, a journalism major who had grown up on the Osage Reservation in Fairfax, Oklahoma, was described as an "honorary princess of the Osage Indian tribe". Brooks weighed 90 pounds and her Chief regalia weighed 50. However, more recently the most current "unofficial" Chief Illiniwek has been cited as to being half-Cherokee.

However when it comes to insulting there is nothing that tops the Cleveland Indians logo.

[gazhekwe]

Look what Canada is doing now with its Omnibus Budget Bill terminating Native rights in favor of Big Oil. Want to know how that worked out here in the US? Read this broad overview and weep.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_termination_policy

IDLE NO MORE!

As for the courier de bois wearing the wrong kind of hat, you are mixing apples and oranges. Occupation does not equal culture. The mascots are misappropriating, mocking and misusing sacred ceremonies and celebrating the mainstream view of Indians as massacrers that you allude to. All the availability of historical and cultural information does not mean anyone is looking at it. Schools here at least are still woefully inadequate in their instruction of history and contributions of Native people.

As for being warlike, there is a twist to that that the mascots are far away from catching. War is an important way to celebrate and maintain and protect the culture of the nation. Native people in the US enlist in the military in far greater proportion to their numbers than any other group. There have been 28 Medal of Honor winners. Winners because of courage, willingness to step up to danger, skills in detection, tracking and concealment, and determined defense of their fellow troopers. What do you think, would it be respectful to have the mascot be a Medal of Honor winner, in uniform? How about a Code Talker?

[canuck]

Look what Canada is doing now with its Omnibus Budget Bill terminating Native rights in favor of Big Oil. Want to know how that worked out here in the US? Read this broad overview and weep.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_termination_policy

IDLE NO MORE!

As for the courier de bois wearing the wrong kind of hat, you are mixing apples and oranges. Occupation does not equal culture. The mascots are misappropriating, mocking and misusing sacred ceremonies and celebrating the mainstream view of Indians as massacrers that you allude to. All the availability of historical and cultural information does not mean anyone is looking at it. Schools here at least are still woefully inadequate in their instruction of history and contributions of Native people.

As for being warlike, there is a twist to that that the mascots are far away from catching. War is an important way to celebrate and maintain and protect the culture of the nation. Native people in the US enlist in the military in far greater proportion to their numbers than any other group. There have been 28 Medal of Honor winners. Winners because of courage, willingness to step up to danger, skills in detection, tracking and concealment, and determined defense of their fellow troopers. What do you think, would it be respectful to have the mascot be a Medal of Honor winner, in uniform? How about a Code Talker?

I like the last point you bring up. Yes, I have no problem with contemporary uniforms on a native woman or man as opposed to traditional regalia. But Ihave little or no problem with cultural appropriation via logotype or ceremony if the intent is not to hurt. The problem with this sort of contention when it is brought before the courts is that there is one winner; the lawyerly bunch. If a theatrical intent motivates a mock ceremonial, no matter how goofy or distasteful; it should be left alone. If a meanness of spirit is displayed, then by all means, take the item to court.

As for the "Injun logo" Lowell, I dont find it offensive personally, but I can sympathize with those who do. I see fiercer caricatures of politicians and others on a daily basis. You could easily find Cabbage Patch dolls offensive to babies in that respect. Cartoons are not about stealing someone's soul, but they can come pretty close to it.

I will have to look up the Big Oil vs Native Rights bill. I am not surprised by anything Harper throws at us. Canada is steered by big oil interests and by proxy of Alberta politicians. Look at the states and provinces that can resist hopping the shale gas bandwagon; we are all pressured into sucking up mother earth in a big way. New York State and Quebec have a moratorium on shale gas drilling, but how long will this last?

[noise]

I see fiercer caricatures of politicians and others on a daily basis. You could easily find Cabbage Patch dolls offensive to babies in that respect.

In terms of identity, you are comparing Native Americans with politicians and babies?

[gazhekwe]

if the intent is not to hurt.

Hurt has been amply demonstrated in the decades leading up to this lawsuit. In the case of anti-discrimination law, it is not necessary to prove intent to cause harm, it is sufficient to show that harm has happened and continues to happen. In this case, lack of intent simply demonstrates ignorance, of the existence of Native people today, of the impact on students and communities, and of the adverse impact on mainstream society which is harmed by failing to understand, learn about and benefit from healthy diversity.

The Bill in question in Canada is C45.

[canuck]

In terms of identity, you are comparing Native Americans with politicians and babies?

Yes, and everybody else.

Because there has to be some room to maneuver, some humor to manifest itself in this complicated world.

gazhekwe/ if the intent is not to hurt.

Yes, I follow your reasoning and the legal context. Of course, if courts are called to decide on matters of identity, they need to look at what harm is done to specific victims and interestingly; to society as a whole.

I am curious to see how far this goes, is there a movement to outlaw forms of expression inspired by ethnicity or utilizing elements of communal iconography?

As for Bill C45, it is another in a series of insults that keep all of us colonized. Money is the only oecumenical agent that folks rally around when times are uncertain, and the media have us believe daily that the world is ending soon, so I guess it is easier for us to accept iniquity, if dollars are to come out of it. Sick.

[gazhekwe]

Canuck, you do keep mixing occupation with race/ethnic identity. Politicians are part of an occupation. No protection under the law is offered re:Occupation.

RE: Canuck said, is there a movement to outlaw forms of expression inspired by ethnicity or utilizing elements of communal iconography?

The American Indian mascot issue as outlined in the Michigan Civil Rights Department suit is not connected to any such movement, it stands on its own, having been brewing and under negotiation and investigation for decades. Any other group so interested would have to undertake the labor of establishing a basis for such a suit and showing continuous evidence of harm.

[canuck]

Canuck, you do keep mixing occupation with race/ethnic identity. Politicians are part of an occupation. No protection under the law is offered re:Occupation.

OK, I recognize the difference but I doubt the possibility of a healthy outcome
if at any time a business entity or cultural enterprise cannot evoke a likeness, title or characteristic based on ethnicity.

It bothers me more than the perceived wrong not being righted, because it is better for the wronged to apply strategic measures of creativity to counter said perceived wrongs.

What if someone on a Chippewa reservation opened a Dutch Girl donut shop and this was taken as an insult by a bunch of dutch michiganders? Where does this stop?

The American Indian mascot issue as outlined in the Michigan Civil Rights Department suit is not connected to any such movement, it stands on its own, having been brewing and under negotiation and investigation for decades. Any other group so interested would have to undertake the labor of establishing a basis for such a suit and showing continuous evidence of harm.

This is not a good fight, because on the one hand the motive is to limit the display of iconography, traditions and ethnic attributes to a ghetto usage. This as I have pointed out is tantamount to slow death. Culture is transference, it is sometimes sublime, oftentimes goofy and downright tasteless, but you know gazhekwe, it is part of life.

[gazhekwe]

When it causes harm, it must be addressed. We are really not talking about culture transference at all. That happens and it is perfectly fine. How about place names [[as long as they are not demeaning of a protected group), Michigan, Huron, Ottawa, Chippewa, Menominee, Quebec, Rimouski. No one has a problem with those, or the words caucus, caribou, hominy, moccasin. Use them with our blessing. Stay away from squaw and buck, though, they have been used to refer to our people with such disgust by mainstream people in the past that we no longer tolerate them.

If we open a donut shop, it will be called something like the Dancing Crane, or Waashkobejid Bkwejigan Adaawewgamig not Dutch Girl, but if such a thing did happen and a Dutch person or even many objected it would not be the same as an entire community protesting. They would be expected to demonstrate harm to their community by the use of the name.

I will point out again, this is something that is based on fact, proof and demonstration of harm to many communities and many native people throughout the state, for decades, not just one person deciding that mascots are a dumb idea.

[gnome]

Gaz, think you want to tell these folks about Company K? Or save that for another time?

-----

if the tribal leaders say these mascots are offensive, they are offensive. Who in their right mind would suggest the Fighting Kikes, or N.......ers. The Honkies? Nope. Spicks? No way. No one would. I guess a lot of people don't see offense because they haven't been sensitized yet.

if a group is offended by their depiction, then it should be removed.

However, all societies had indigenous people who painted their faces and whooped war cries. Ask William Wallace if he ever whooped and hollered after painting his face blue.

[Bad Brains]

People are seriously complaining about Indian names for sport teams? Wow, talk about First-World problems to the extreme......

If a franchise made a team named after my race [[Caucasian), not only would I not care, it wouldn't even affect my life in any way possible. Don't people have actual important things to complain about anymore?

[noise]

People are seriously complaining about Indian names for sport teams? Wow, talk about First-World problems to the extreme......

If a franchise made a team named after my race [[Caucasian), not only would I not care, it wouldn't even affect my life in any way possible. Don't people have actual important things to complain about anymore?

Oh, you're a white male? Such a startling response!

Grow up.

[kenp]

The Crackers?

[Papasito]

I read a few books about Native Americans, one of them was about Crazy Horse, written about him with a lot of stories proven to be factual.

The Native Americans were not a "kumbayah" "balance with nature" "peace loving" people what so ever. In fact, Crazy Horse went through great detail explaining how a young boy becomes a man by scalping a man from another tribe.

Tribes warred with one another as a part of normal life. Killing one another was part of normal life. War and blood was a part of normal life. Hunting and killing and protecting hunting grounds was a part of normal life. Some tribes would kill and kill and kill wildlife in an area until none remained, then moved to another area to do it all over again, and that was a part of normal life.

I'm not justifying the mass killing of Native Americans by US and European settlers by any means, but I AM saying that the pretty picture the media and some historians try to paint is not entirely accurate about the way Native Americans lived.

http://books.google.com/books/about/...d=73zvuYTmczwC

But on the topic of mascots:
I believe if they are used in a different manner than they are today, and honor the strength and power of the Native Americans, I would find it acceptable.
But RED SKINS .. that's racist.
But the image used for the Washington Redskins is not racist.

The red faced mascot face shown earlier in this thread .. that's racist.

I think it's all in how you portray the Native Americans that makes it offensive or not.

[noise]

Which media and historians have painted that picture? I'm unfamiliar with it.

[Jimaz]

Utica, Chippewa Valley mascots named in civil rights complaint

The Michigan Department of Civil Rights filed a complaint with the U.S. Department of Education Feb. 8 against Michigan schools using mascots that depict American Indians as warriors.

The division is requesting that any such school receiving federal funds change its mascot name and logo.

MDCR says that the use of American Indian names, nicknames and logos creates “a hostile environment and denies equal rights to all current and future American Indian students.”

Among the 35 schools named in the complaint are three members of the Macomb Area Conference — Chippewa Valley High School, which has the mascot name Big Reds, the Utica High Chieftains and Port Huron High, which also uses the mascot title Big Reds.

“We are just waiting for the official communication from [[the DCR),” Utica Community Schools Superintendent Christine Johns said, acknowledging the report’s mention of Utica High’s mascot....

[gazhekwe]

the pretty picture the media and some historians try to paint is not entirely accurate about the way Native Americans lived.

Big news flash, Papacito! Natives are PEOPLE! People have wars, they also have peace. In times of peace and also in times of war, different tribes lived by a strictly spiritual code of ethics. Some beautiful spiritual practices were and are part of the circle of life. No Nation and no People is all about war, or all about peace. To expect saintly forbearance in a time of genocide is completely unrealistic.

[jerrytimes]

I'm so tired of all the race crap.

[gazhekwe]

Does this change your viewpoint either way?



Blackface-Wearing New York Politician Says he Won't Dress as an Indian

ICTMN Staff

February 27, 2013

There's a consensus in the United States of America that the wearing of blackface is a racist act. It's something you just don't do, and if you do it you can expect to be rightly pilloried. For American Indians, it's often frustrating that racism toward Native Americans that feels very overt is somehow harder for the mainstream to detect.

With some ill-advised costume choices, and a thoroughly unapologetic apology, a New York State Assemblyman is doing his part to connect the dots.

Dov Hikind of Brooklyn is being rightly pilloried for hosting a Purim party wearing blackface. Costume parties are a tradition of the Jewish celebration of Purim, and Hikind had decided to go to his in the costume of "basketball player," which necessitated an orange jersey-ish garment, an afro wig and dark makeup.

Hikind's getup earned him plenty of press. His initial response was a shrug of acknowledgement in a post to his blog entitled "It's Purim. People Dress Up."

"I am intrigued that anyone who understands Purim—or for that matter understands me—would have a problem with this," he wrote. "This is political correctness to the absurd."

Hikind was fixated on the idea that the costume only seemed racist because people didn't understand Purim. Also on Monday he held a news conference to address the criticism -- but didn't. He explained again that costumes are part of the Purim celebration. [[The "it's not racist, it's a costume" argument is one Natives hear every Halloween.) In addition to explaining what a costume is, he offered a classic first-draft non-apology:

"Anyone who was offended -- I'm sorry that they were offended, that was not the intention."

Hikind posted a more genuine apology to his blog on Tuesday. Unfortuately for him, the New Yorker and the Daily Show were still reacting to Monday's news.

African Americans have plenty of cause to be incensed by Hikind's ignorance -- but so too do American Indians. On Monday, when Hikind was still trying to defend himself with the "political correctness to the absurd" argument, he told a New York Times reporter that the outcry was making him rethink his plans for next year's Purim.

"Next year I was thinking I’d be an Indian," he said. "But you know, I’ve changed my mind about that. I don’t think that’s a good idea. Somebody will be offended."

Of course, it's hard to know whether [[or to what extent) he was joking about dressing as an Indian. [[It is also hard to know exactly which kind of Indian he had in mind, but that's beside the point.) If he didn't know blackface was a no-no, there is really no telling how unenlightened his thinking may be when it comes to Native stereotypes.

Read more athttp://indiancountrytodaymedianetwor...-indian-147900

A Heartfelt and Sincere Apology

Some people have marveled at what they’ve characterized as my insensitivity in wearing the costume I wore on Purim. My initial reaction in learning of this was one of shock because my intention was never to hurt or make fun of anyone. Those who know me—in politics and in my personal life—already know this. But others who don’t know me have expressed hurt and outrage, so I am writing to address that once and for all. Unintentional as they were, I recognize now that the connotations of my Purim costume were deeply offensive to many.


I am sincerely sorry that I have hurt anyone. I apologize for the pain that I have caused anyone by this incident, and by any remarks that I have made in connection with it. It genuinely pains me that I have pained any human being. That’s not who I am, not who I want to be. I sincerely hope that this note will soothe any hurt feelings.


http://dovhikind.blogspot.com/

[canuck]

See, Gazhekwe, I am not at all offended by the blackface he put on. I just witnessed kids from a jewish school this week dressed as cowboys and police and even old rabbis in white beards, and cannot be offended by this mardi-gras type of occurence. I fail to see the insult in this. If a native leader dresses up in a suit and tie to negotiate with govt officials instead of traditional dress; are we to infer he is making fun of "white culture".

If a black politician were to whiteface at a carnival in Rio or New Orleans, should this be construed as a grave insult to whites?

Isnt the idea of carnival to evacuate such nonsense from our daily lives; let loose and poke fun at ourselves, not simply targeting others.

On the other hand I will give you a real insult Quebeckers or Québécois are dealing with right now. The OQLF, rightly called by anglo media the "Language Police" are in the news here for a series of actions taken by agents who demanded linguistic propriety from business owners in Montreal and Quebec City in the following ways; an Italian restaurant in Montreal was asked to remove the word Pasta on its menus and give the french version only where two versions italian and french were already printed. A italian café owner in QCity had to change menus and outdoor signage to the tune of twenty grand because the business name; Conti Caffè needed to be frenchified. Brasserie Holder restaurant in Montreal was asked to remove the initials WC from its toilet doors because the agent deemed the english term Water Closet was not proper in spite of the owner's contention that in France, they are all called WC.

I personally think this kind of kafkaesque situation is racist and anti-cosmopolitan in the extreme. It is so far removed from my knowledge of opennesss and accomodation of different cultures that exists in Quebec, and it drives me up the wall that this kind of story hit the news around the world and shows us to be the vulgar, close-minded people we are not. But something is wrong in Quebec for this to happen, it is more than skin deep unfortunately; there are those who need to show that for french to remain the visible face of Quebec, englisha nd other languages even, need to be curtailed.; nuts.

Anyways, I am just saying that this is a silly bureaucratic affront to intelligence and humanity. I understand how some folks might be sensitive to the blackface, but if he were dragged-up as a white woman; would this hae bee an issue? Where does this stop?

[gnome]

Canuck, you clearly do not get it and you stretch logic to bring in Québec and the whole Frenchy thing. Apples and oranges at both fruits, both have seeds, except when they don't and both have skins. All that is true. But beside their commonalities, they are different from one another.

if you wanted to bring up Canada, you could have pointed to the Mohawk protests, you could have brought up transnational border crossings, you could have brought up any number of issues. But you didn't.

canuck, since it is close, I want you to head over to Walpole and try out your whole smoke dance, redskin talk. You will find out in short order where the apples and oranges differ.

[canuck]

Canuck, you clearly do not get it and you stretch logic to bring in Québec and the whole Frenchy thing. Apples and oranges at both fruits, both have seeds, except when they don't and both have skins. All that is true. But beside their commonalities, they are different from one another.

if you wanted to bring up Canada, you could have pointed to the Mohawk protests, you could have brought up transnational border crossings, you could have brought up any number of issues. But you didn't.

canuck, since it is close, I want you to head over to Walpole and try out your whole smoke dance, redskin talk. You will find out in short order where the apples and oranges differ.

I did mention the mohawks and their use of warrior attributes as a symbol of cultural fortitude in previous posts. What you dont understand is my opinion on thematter of what constitutes an insult. Apples and oranges both have skins, one is more tender than the other, I may be more sensitive to certain things you find neutral and vice versa. The opinion I gave was on the matter of Political Correctness.

I thought the example Gazhekwe gave of a politician celebrating a jewish holiday by making up in blackface or the girl next to him in the picture as redface was not offensive in the least. I think that a carnival situation has usually been dedicated to vent, or as Ray1936 put it; loosen up. If you constrict people's expression on the basis that it will hurt someone's sensibilities in the context of mardi-gras or Halloween or Purim, the we're all fugged because we all become somewhat thinner skinned and ready to jump.

The example I gave of the frenchy thing above is clearly undermining expression and acceptance of cultural otherness by bureaucratic means, and the legal framework makes it harder to bear bacause it is harder to fight. In the case of natives who were partially assimilated by force over the centuries, this is a continuation of a policy of negating other cultures in our midst.

I have been at Pow Wows at Kahnawake Mohawk reservation and worked on a number of movies with Native subjects shot on and off reservations, and am totally sympathetic to the natives in the great majority of their demands vs the federal govts in USA and Canada. I Just wont lose sleep over people in costumes or cartoon depictions of nationalities. Do you get that gnome?

[gnome]

Do you get that gnome

I get that you don't get it.

I get you want to be right. But that is where you are wrong.

The issue is whether someone is offended or not. You say you are not, therefore neither should anyone else.

I'm with you, I am not offended by most indian mascots [[redskins and chief nok-a-homa) are exceptions.

But this is a truth: you cannot tell someone what to feel. You can't make someone love you when they don't, you can't make someone feel sympathy when they don't.

You are telling people to not be offended for reason x, y and z. Those reasons make sense to you, and i think you are sincere, but you are dealing with emotions and with emotions there is no way anyone can dictate how someone should feel.

Recently there was a thread about the Packard Plant and a sign that read Arbeit Mach Frei. Those words are clearly offensive to anyone with even a passing knowledge of World War II and the genocide of jews, gypsies, political dissidents and homosexuals.

To the so-called artist or activist who placed the sign, their point seems to be more wrapped in the corporate looting of America's working class. The artist seemed surprised at the uproar. They were unsympathetic.

[canuck]

I cant debate on sensibilities, I agree with you on that. Heck I saw a bunch of kids at an orthodox jewish school this week having a Purim event in front of where I worked, dressed as cowboys and old rabbis with white beards, and other costumes on top of their uniform black garb and it was funny. It made me happy to think how humans are not so easily defined, in spite of their beliefs and values.

Unfotunately this is a phone pic I took and shows the end of the event and not too many costumes left, but it is nice that these people always wearing the same uniform having one day in the year where they allow themselves to be different; one kid has a cowboy hat and others have FBI vests, but most of what I saw earlier had disappeared;

[gazhekwe]

Guest column: Keep the pride, change the logo

Guest Column — 25 February 2013

By Dan Levy/ Michigan Department of Civil Rights Dan Levy is the chief legal officer of the Michigan Department of Civil Rights

When the Michigan Department of Civil Rights asked the U.S. Department of Education to end the use of American Indian mascots, we expected that many people’s first reaction would be to defend the traditions they represent. Pride runs deep in our state and nowhere is that pride more evident than in our local public schools.

But people who’ve gotten past their initial reaction and read our supporting argument know that we are not saying that every school with an American Indian mascot should be ashamed of it. [[Read it.) In fact, we acknowledge that the opposite is true. Mascots were often chosen with the intent of paying tribute to American Indians, providing a unifying symbol under all could gather in shared spirit.

But good intentions only go so far.

New studies establish that harm is caused to students even when the mascots are limited only to positive images. These harms include decreased academic performance and lower feelings of self-esteem, self-worth and achievement. When we know an action [[or in this case, a symbol) causes harm to the very students we are called upon to protect and nurture, change is needed.

We believe schools that recognize this new body of research and act in the interests of students can always be proud of their mascots — past, present and future. We also believe that if a school insists on keeping its mascot after discovering doing so harms students, it is that school and not this department who tarnishes the mascot.

Many have questioned why we took our complaint to the federal government. We view this as the next step in a conversation that started decades ago. In 1988, the Michigan Civil Rights Commission issued a report calling for an end to American Indian mascots; then passed a similar resolution in 2002. The State Board of Education did likewise in 2003, 2006 and 2010.

Asking for the creation of a national standard allows the decision to be made by experts, removed from the community strife these discussions cause. We seek a remedy that acknowledges the information requiring change is new, and thus does not order schools to change everything overnight. We would like to see name changes as soon as possible, but gym floors and various uniforms changed only when otherwise replaced.

What about the Fighting Irish, others ask? First, the schools Irish founders chose the name and non-Irish fans don’t wear Irish face-paint and costumes to “play” Irish.
*****

School names listed in a document from the Michigan Department of Civil Rights’ complaint to the federal government over American Indian mascots:

Athens Indians	Gladstone Braves	Remus Chippewa Hills Warriors
Bay City Western Warriors	Grass Lake Warriors	Sandusky Redskins
Belding Redskins	Hartford Indians	Saranac Redskins
Birmingham Brother Rice Warriors	Kinde-North Huron Warriors
Brownstown Woodhaven Warriors	Lansing Sexton Big Reds	Tawas [[City) Area Braves
Camden-Frontier Redskins	Marquette Redmen/Redettes	Tecumseh Indians
Capac Chiefs	Morley-Stanwood Mohawks	Tekonsha Indians
Cheboygan Chiefs	New Boston Huron Chiefs	Utica Chieftains
Chesaning Indians	Newberry Indians	Walled Lake Western Warriors
Chippewa Valley Big Reds	Paw Paw Redskins	White Cloud Indians
Clinton Redskins	Plymouth Canton Chiefs	White Pigeon Chiefs
Dowagiac Chieftains

- See more at: http://bridgemi.com/2013/02/guest-co....AG9tgFaq.dpuf