One of Malice Green's killers [Larry Nevers] is dead.

**Motor City Sam** · February-04-13, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Back in the day, I spoke with 2 police officers that were called to a building break in. The perp, jacked up on what later was identified as PCP, decided to run down a flight of stairs and attack the 2 police officers with a stick. After several shouts to the perp, they aimed and fired, no effect. 6 revolver shells, and a 9 round clip later, he finally landed @ their feet, after grabbing one of the officers. Malice Green was no saint. Budzyn and Nevers no sinners. It was a horrible tragedy.

Yeah, PCP can make monsters out of ordinary people, but it's important to remember that Green wasn't on PCP. A crackhead is not the same as a PCP user.

I haven't heard anyone claim that Green was a saint, but saying Budzyn and Nevers were no sinners implies they did nothing wrong. I can't agree with that. I do agree that it was a horrible tragedy.

**Wesley Mouch** · February-04-13, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Are you serious? Police officers are not authorized to use deadly force just because you are not in compliance with their orders. That's ridiculous.

If the order is to protect themselves or others, they can.

Drop that gun, or I'll shoot.

Their not issued service revolvers for decoration. About the only time they can use deadly force is when you don't comply.

Come out with your hands up, or I'll request a tribunal to discuss due process.

**brizee** · February-04-13, 03:09 PM

I liked Judge Dredd too but it wasn't a documentary.

**ccal** · February-04-13, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Due process?

Due process starts with compliance with the reasonable requests of police officers. When you are being detained by the police, they have a responsibility to treat you properly. And you have a responsibility to comply with reasonable requests. After that, you can take it up with the court. But when you're detained, you comply.

So in your view, Malice Green not opening his hand warranted deadly force?

**iheartthed** · February-04-13, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

If the order is to protect themselves or others, they can.

Drop that gun, or I'll shoot.

Their not issued service revolvers for decoration. About the only time they can use deadly force is when you don't comply.

Come out with your hands up, or I'll request a tribunal to discuss due process.

So you're agreeing that what you said sounds fucking ridiculous, no?

**Downriviera** · February-04-13, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by ccal

So in your view, Malice Green not opening his hand warranted deadly force?

If I remember this case correctly, Nevers stated that Green tried to get his gun.

**ccal** · February-04-13, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by Downriviera

If I remember this case correctly, Nevers stated that Green tried to get his gun.

So while his one had was closed around a piece of crack, the other was free to reach for the officers gun all while having his head caved in by a flashlight. I don't know about you but if my head is being cracked open, my natural reaction is to try and fend off the blows with my hand, that's just me of course.

**Honky Tonk** · February-04-13, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by ccal

natural reaction

Not blasted on coke or crack or PCP or whatever. Natural reaction is to know you're outnumbered, overpowered, and surrender. Un-natural reaction is "I can take him".

**Shollin** · February-04-13, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by ccal

So while his one had was closed around a piece of crack, the other was free to reach for the officers gun all while having his head caved in by a flashlight. I don't know about you but if my head is being cracked open, my natural reaction is to try and fend off the blows with my hand, that's just me of course.

His head wasn't cracked open. Doctor's reports stated he had no skull fractures, brain swelling, or concussion.

**noise** · February-04-13, 05:42 PM

They killed a man they didn't need to kill. That's disgusting. Defending it is also disgusting.

I will qualify this by saying I was never raised to repeat, "thank you sir, may I have another?"

**Detroitnerd** · February-04-13, 05:53 PM

Frank Rizzo is alive and well ...

**Downriviera** · February-04-13, 05:56 PM

Whats disgusting is when crack dealers spray bullets into a house and a little girl sleeping on the couch takes one to the head.

**noise** · February-04-13, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by Downriviera

Whats disgusting is when crack dealers spray bullets into a house and a little girl sleeping on the couch takes one to the head.

Kill everyone, just to be safe.

**ArmDetroit** · February-04-13, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by Downriviera

Whats disgusting is when crack dealers spray bullets into a house and a little girl sleeping on the couch takes one to the head.

i thought that was DPD?

**brizee** · February-04-13, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Frank Rizzo is alive and well ...

Reading the comments (yeah I know) today was so disappointing.

It broke completely along race lines, with one or dissenting voices.

This place has not changed in a hundred effin years.

**jcole** · February-04-13, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

If the order is to protect themselves or others, they can.

Drop that gun, or I'll shoot.

Their not issued service revolvers for decoration. About the only time they can use deadly force is when you don't comply.

Come out with your hands up, or I'll request a tribunal to discuss due process.

"Stop, or I'll say stop again"

**jcole** · February-04-13, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by ccal

So in your view, Malice Green not opening his hand warranted deadly force?

What's sad about this is if, today, it was a guy who "looked like" a terrorist who wouldn't open his hand, a lot of people would laud the police for taking him out because "it could have been a bomb or biological weapon."

**Shollin** · February-04-13, 09:15 PM

Did Walter Budzyn die? For some reason I thought Larry Nevers was already dead.

**softailrider** · February-04-13, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by Downriviera

Whats disgusting is when crack dealers spray bullets into a house and a little girl sleeping on the couch takes one to the head.

How about when a member of a raid team ( with TV cameras rolling ) shoots into a house and kills a young child sleeping in the Living room? Is that any less disgusting?

**Mikeg** · February-04-13, 09:29 PM

As someone recently answered when questioned about the circumstances surrounding the death of her employee, "What difference at this point does it make?"

**Wesley Mouch** · February-04-13, 09:32 PM

Originally Posted by ccal

So in your view, Malice Green not opening his hand warranted deadly force?

No.

Deadly force requires more.

I wasn't there, so I don't know whether deadly force was required.

I'm quite sure I don't know what happened. And I'm quite sure that no one else does either.

I'm also quite sure that people have little idea of the risk to officers of the drug war.

**Shollin** · February-04-13, 09:36 PM

What I find disgusting is that 5 qualified medical examiners determined Malice Green did not die from blows to the head, the mayor went on national television and called the cops murderers, the police chief said they would convict them, denied their request to have the case tried outside of Detroit, had a jury that was mostly black, used witnesses who convicted cocaine users and previously arrested by Nevers, and showed Malcom X movie to the jurors.

**ccal** · February-04-13, 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by Shollin

What I find disgusting is that 5 qualified medical examiners determined Malice Green did not die from blows to the head, the mayor went on national television and called the cops murderers, the police chief said they would convict them, denied their request to have the case tried outside of Detroit, had a jury that was mostly black, used witnesses who convicted cocaine users and previously arrested by Nevers, and showed Malcom X movie to the jurors.

So the system was flawed because they were convicted but when others are sent away because of this same system? I don't understand the significance of the Malcolm movie, is that movie somehow racially charged to where it would make the jurors feel some type of way after watching it? The Malcom X movie I watched(Spike Lee version) wouldn't make me feel some type of way towards people of another ethnicity, it would make me feel some type of way toward my own people because that who killed Malcolm.

**ccal** · February-04-13, 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

No.

Deadly force requires more.

I wasn't there, so I don't know whether deadly force was required.

I'm quite sure I don't know what happened. And I'm quite sure that no one else does either.

I'm also quite sure that people have little idea of the risk to officers of the drug war.

Well the system worked and they got what they had coming to them.

**Django** · February-05-13, 12:23 AM

Originally Posted by softailrider

How about when a member of a raid team ( with TV cameras rolling ) shoots into a house and kills a young child sleeping in the Living room? Is that any less disgusting?

You beat me to it.

Also, I believe the Spike Lee version of Malcom X came years after the Green murder.