Bargain mansions in Palmer Woods

[bailey]

Similar is the so called "cheap shit". I think it's absolutely crazy to spend a fortune on "Flint-Faience Tile" when I can find similar porcelain or ceramic tile made in Brazil or Mexico for a lot less. Utility wise there's no difference. It looks similar. Porcelain tile is porcelain tile. Hey, I can drop $1K on a single dress shirt at the Neiman Marcus store in Troy when I can something of similar quality for $35 elsewhere, but that's not my overpaying lifestyle. There is no reason from a quality standpoint to justify paying that much for a dress shirt. It's a nonsense, value added branded product. Hey, but waste your money by overpaying.

But, this is the City of Detroit, so you need to get a clue. I like big open spaces, but I'm not gonna waste money on silly tile or decorate my walls with $20m paintings when I can get a similar look with cheap replicas that are just as strong, reliable and visually appealing. So, you can keep your overpriced flatulent tile. It's no bargain to me or most people.

Are you seriously comparing a builder's grade special and knock off prints to an elaborately trimmed out home and original art?

I think your point...if I understand it correctly...would be better made comparing overpriced new construction in the city with what you could frugally build elsewhere.

Buying a house like this is like buying a classic automobile and sourcing original parts to restore it. Yes you could go to Pep boys and get the part and it would work, but that wouldn't be "right". I personally think paying 2 or three times the price for some historically accurate fuel line for a car you can never drive for fear of damaging the paint is really silly...and I just don't get it, the same way you don't "get" why anyone would care about artisan tile. to each his own.

[davewindsor]

Give me tile made by real artisans here in MI anytime over cheap crap made by slave labor somewhere else sold by a big box. Again you talk about replacements that fail-a sign you use inferior materials. Everything I have is original and works well because it was done right the first time[[except for a good replacement roof)!

You wasted your money like a drunken sailor. You'll never recover your money when you sell it because it's all original. It's the same quality. It's not rocket science. And it's on the floor, so you can't really tell the difference between a same quality replica from a big box store. The reason it came loose was because the building is over 80 years old so the floor shifted. What happened was not unreasonable. It has nothing do with it being done wrong. It's just wear and tear over time. Your referring to it as "interior material" is just a value added statement, a sales pitch. It has no merit when it comes to structural quality.

As for being done right the first time. Laying down tile is not rocket science. Anyone can do it. It's crazy to get somebody to lay down tile for $200 an hour when there's plenty out there who'll do the same quality of work for $12 an hour.

[p69rrh51]

Actually I can tell the difference between the cheap crap you use and the quality materials found in many of the homes around the city and not just in the historic districts. Right now many very good artisans can be had for very fair labor rates if you pay $200 an hour you are stupid. This will change as the economy improves[[get work done now while its less expensive).
Since you have no clue what I was describing-replicating a foyer that is appox. 30' x 15' to the ORIGINAL specification as well as the rest of the home never could be done for a measly $700K and you would definitely be on the list of never get a quote from contractors.

[davewindsor]

Actually I can tell the difference between the cheap crap you use and the quality materials found in many of the homes around the city and not just in the historic districts. Right now many very good artisans can be had for very fair labor rates if you pay $200 an hour you are stupid. This will change as the economy improves[[get work done now while its less expensive).
Since you have no clue what I was describing-replicating a foyer that is appox. 30' x 15' to the ORIGINAL specification as well as the rest of the home never could be done for a measly $700K and you would definitely be on the list of never get a quote from contractors.

It won't change. People have been thinking the city would change in the past 50 years and it didn't and they lost their shirt.

I would never hire a crazy contractor like that so it would make no difference to me. I don't buy real estate if I can't see how it's gonna make me a good return on my investment. You remember the saying on what happens to a fool and his money?

[Neilr]

Curbed Detroit posted another Palmer Woods house for sale with the type of quality that p69rrh51 is talking about. While the sale price is a hefty $535,000, the quality of materials and workmanship in the house, or even the look [[not the quality) of the materials and workmanship, is not being duplicated in new suburban houses in metro Detroit today. If you click on the link, make sure you scroll through to see the pictures of the staircase. You won't be disappointed.

http://detroit.curbed.com/archives/2...2ea13678035d7e

[p69rrh51]

It won't change. People have been thinking the city would change in the past 50 years and it didn't and they lost their shirt.

I would never hire a crazy contractor like that so it would make no difference to me. I don't buy real estate if I can't see how it's gonna make me a good return on my investment. You remember the saying on what happens to a fool and his money?

Interesting how much money has your real estate made in the 4-5 years? Anyone who buys real estate thinking they are going to make money is just plain stupid. Yes there are those who make some money flipping properties quickly but from a long term investment real estate is a joke in REAL money terms. But then if you want to live in a hovel be my guest I will be quite comfortable in my palace! Last you cannot take it with you so you might as well enjoy it while you are here. I am on to more interesting discussions and will miss the last word you will have to put bore us with.

[TexasT]

Curbed Detroit posted another Palmer Woods house for sale with the type of quality that p69rrh51 is talking about. While the sale price is a hefty $535,000, the quality of materials and workmanship in the house, or even the look [[not the quality) of the materials and workmanship, is not being duplicated in new suburban houses in metro Detroit today. If you click on the link, make sure you scroll through to see the pictures of the staircase. You won't be disappointed.

http://detroit.curbed.com/archives/2...2ea13678035d7e

Oh wow, thanks for the post. That is a gorgeous home.

[pkbroch]

Whoa boys.....Time out!

What Bailey said about old cars is right. Some might want to do a frame up restoration and others just enough to make it a "driver". Others might only want a new vehicle. It's all personal taste and budget.

It's the same in old homes. Line by line restoration is great, Fixing up to make a home livable is fine, and new quality construction will be tomorrows classics.

Palmer Woods has all three types. That what makes it a great and interesting neighborhood, after all I should know I have lived here for 30+ years in a 85 year old Tudor.

[davewindsor]

Interesting how much money has your real estate made in the 4-5 years? Anyone who buys real estate thinking they are going to make money is just plain stupid. Yes there are those who make some money flipping properties quickly but from a long term investment real estate is a joke in REAL money terms. But then if you want to live in a hovel be my guest I will be quite comfortable in my palace! Last you cannot take it with you so you might as well enjoy it while you are here. I am on to more interesting discussions and will miss the last word you will have to put bore us with.

There's plenty of other things to enjoy and it makes me plenty. I buy real estate to rent out and sometimes sell if the price is right. It doesn't make me a dollar more in rent if I repair using overpriced antiques or same quality replicas. It looks decent. I don't live in hovels and I don't rent out hovels because hovels attract dead beats or don't get rented and I'm here to make money not put myself on the path to loose it all like yourself.

[bailey]

There's plenty of other things to enjoy and it makes me plenty. I buy real estate to rent out and sometimes sell if the price is right. It doesn't make me a dollar more in rent if I repair using overpriced antiques or same quality replicas. It looks decent. I don't live in hovels and I don't rent out hovels because hovels attract dead beats or don't get rented and I'm here to make money not put myself on the path to loose it all like yourself.

Well, then by that description of what you do and what your strategy is, you have zero credibility in your asssement of the home's, that are the subject of your disdain, relative "worth".

No one would restore a 10000 squr foot home to rent out. That would be flat out stupid. People buy these homes because of the materials and the old world craftmanship and they want to LIVE there. It's worth it to them.

Further, I have no idea where it is you live, but in my neighborhood, rentals command more money if they have Pewabic tiled fireplaces, original hard woods...etc. Not only do rentals command more money, homes for sale command a higher price if those "old world" elements are in them and not ripped out and replaced with the Home Depot version.

People know they can get joe schmo contractor to lay some ceramic on the cheap... however, there is a large market of people that do not want that. I don't understand why you are pretending that is not true.

You clearly deal in a different market. Which is fine, but in the end, its rules are inapplicable to the market for these homes.

[poobert]

What a load of shit. Sure, craftsmanship doesn't matter, just live in a shipping container. Whatever. I'm not surprised in this instance, given the total hideousness of the Windsor skyline.

[davewindsor]

Well, then by that description of what you do and what your strategy is, you have zero credibility in your asssement of the home's, that are the subject of your disdain, relative "worth".

No one would restore a 10000 squr foot home to rent out. That would be flat out stupid. People buy these homes because of the materials and the old world craftmanship and they want to LIVE there. It's worth it to them.

Further, I have no idea where it is you live, but in my neighborhood, rentals command more money if they have Pewabic tiled fireplaces, original hard woods...etc. Not only do rentals command more money, homes for sale command a higher price if those "old world" elements are in them and not ripped out and replaced with the Home Depot version.

People know they can get joe schmo contractor to lay some ceramic on the cheap... however, there is a large market of people that do not want that. I don't understand why you are pretending that is not true.

You clearly deal in a different market. Which is fine, but in the end, its rules are inapplicable to the market for these homes.

Oh really. So what does a 10,000 sq. ft. house in your neighbourhood in the city of Detroit with all original old world elements rent for a month?

It doesn't command a higher price with all original elements. It's not selling for $10m-$15m, but $700K. $700K is what it's worth. Those extra elements are not recoverable when it sells. What it sells for is the market value. It's not bargain priced. What it sells for is its fair market value. It was listed for sale to anybody. That was the highest offer they got. In fact, the price sounds too high and I think he paid a premium for it. Come on, show me a house that sold for $10m-$15m in the City of Detroit in the past year because you claim these elements give it so much extra value and there's a "market for these homes."

Prove to me your $10m-$15m estimated price is justified using something other than an empty sales pitch. You remind me of one of those Filter Queen vacuum door-to-door salespeople who try to sell people on a $2,000 vacuum claiming it's quality. Meanwhile, I can pick up an older one from a garage sale for twenty bucks and clean it out and put new filters on it and it works just as good as a new $2,000 one. Hey, it's quality right? If I'm buying the vacuum cleaner for twenty bucks, that's what it's worth. I didn't get a bargain. The person who paid two grand got screwed by a salesperson using the old empty"quality" bs line.

[Richard]

With a old home you never really own it ,you are the caretaker that makes sure it survives to the next caretaker.Anybody that says new homes are improved over old homes is not really secure in their thoughts.

Old homes were made to breathe and not be sealed up trapping contaminates and causing more illness.

Old home windows are drafty and the new windows are better sealed?
A properly sealed vintage window is way more efficient then a replacement window at half the cost. Argon gas windows your thing? Read the box they come in ,it says the warranty is voided once the window is installed.

Replacement windows have a life span of 10 years there is no return on investment and you never get your money back.

Most of the lumber used in old homes you cannot even get anymore and to recreate the trim work is expensive to the point you do not see it replicated in new Mc Mansions. I guess the old wives tales come with the old houses.

[poobert]

Oh really. So what does a 10,000 sq. ft. house in your neighbourhood in the city of Detroit with all original old world elements rent for a month?

She lives in Grosse Pointe, an affluent suburb with high property values, you Loonie-grubbing Tory, where such a house would fetch millions in a sale.

This is the most retarded threadjacking ever. Nobody in any city is renting out 10k square foot homes. They're called mansions, and they're what the rich usually like to live in. They don't make economic sense, but as human beings we've developed this thing called a society. Rich people tend to live in fancy houses, eat at fancy places, and shit in fancy toilets, because they can. They could get by just as well shopping at Aldi and living in barracks but chances are they're going to buy a mansion with Pewabic tile if given the chance, you dig?

[Richard]

Wow, cool, I learned some history today thanks Poobert

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tory

[davewindsor]

She lives in Grosse Pointe, an affluent suburb with high property values, you Loonie-grubbing Tory, where such a house would fetch millions in a sale.

This is the most retarded threadjacking ever. Nobody in any city is renting out 10k square foot homes. They're called mansions, and they're what the rich usually like to live in. They don't make economic sense, but as human beings we've developed this thing called a society. Rich people tend to live in fancy houses, eat at fancy places, and shit in fancy toilets, because they can. They could get by just as well shopping at Aldi and living in barracks but chances are they're going to buy a mansion with Pewabic tile if given the chance, you dig?

Really? So, why aren't they buying these houses and moving them to Grosse Point since it has all these valuable elements in them??? Half a century ago, it was pretty common to move houses on flatbeds. If it's as you say a bargain and a $700K mansion is worth $10m-$15m in the Pointes, the return on investment is more than worth the cost to transport it. The reason these houses are worth so much in Grosse Point is because of the value of the land, not because of the building itself. The last time I heard a building behind moved in Detroit was the 2,700 ton Gem theatre over a decade ago and that was it.

[poobert]

Really? So, why aren't they buying these houses and moving them to Grosse Point since it has all these valuable elements in them??? Half a century ago, it was pretty common to move houses on flatbeds. If it's as you say a bargain and a $700K mansion is worth $10m-$15m in the Pointes, the return on investment is more than worth the cost to transport it. The reason these houses are worth so much in Grosse Point is because of the value of the land, not because of the building itself. The last time I heard a building behind moved in Detroit was the 2,700 ton Gem theatre over a decade ago and that was it.

The ultimate thread-jack, taken to CN Tower heights. From mansions to moving theatres.

No one is moving anything to GP because the housing stock is already historic and everything has been built up for the past half-century. This isn't the prairies of Alberta. There is shit in the way.

Uh, Grosse Pointe isn't the French Riviera. The geography is the same as the rest of Metro Detroit [[cartographers would say flat and boring), except for the tiny fraction of properties that are on the lake in GP. I'd say come check it out but Homeland Security would undoubtedly question you about the tin-foil hat and Napoleon outfit.

[davewindsor]

The ultimate thread-jack, taken to CN Tower heights. From mansions to moving theatres.

No one is moving anything to GP because the housing stock is already historic and everything has been built up for the past half-century. This isn't the prairies of Alberta. There is shit in the way.

Uh, Grosse Pointe isn't the French Riviera. The geography is the same as the rest of Metro Detroit [[cartographers would say flat and boring), except for the tiny fraction of properties that are on the lake in GP. I'd say come check it out but Homeland Security would undoubtedly question you about the tin-foil hat and Napoleon outfit.

If this is the ultimate thread jack, then you must have been born on the planet Mars.

We've been talking about whether mansions in Palmer Woods are bargain priced at $700K. I'm saying it's not and all my premises have been leading up to that. I don't even know what you are talking about anymore.

[serpico]

Here's a nice gem Serpico ran across in Palmer Woods this past Sunday......why pay something today that you know will be less tomorrow?

[bailey]

We've been talking about whether mansions in Palmer Woods are bargain priced at $700K. I'm saying it's not and all my premises have been leading up to that. I don't even know what you are talking about anymore.

I don't even know why I'm responding because you clearly are committed to your ignorance, but look, the ONLY reason the home is worth ANYTHING and the only reason the neighborhood has remained is BECAUSE of the craftsmanship and old world charm of the places. It's worth so little compared to like properties in affluent suburbs like GP because it's in Detroit. If it were just one of your vinyl clad, home depot, builder specials you're so fond of, it would be worth whatever the back taxes on the land are.

p.s ..I'm not a 'she'. lol

[Dexlin]

This thread is a f%cking mess, and it's the same cast of characters who don't live in the city nor know sh*t about it. Trolls, be gone.

[davewindsor]

I don't even know why I'm responding because you clearly are committed to your ignorance, but look, the ONLY reason the home is worth ANYTHING is BECAUSE of the craftmanship and old world charm of the place. It's worth so little compared to like properities in affluent suburbs like GP because it's in Detroit. If it were just one of your vinyl clad, home depot, builder specials your so fond of, it would be worth whatever the back taxes on the land are.

p.s ..I'm not a 'she'. lol

Again, you're comparing a house in Detroit vs. a house in GP when it's the value of the land that makes it worth so much more in GP.

Just to clarify. I don't like vinyl clad homes either. I'm all for similar style brick facades and architectural detail, but knock it off with your antique flatulent lobby tile to say houses like this are worth $10m-$15m.

Hey, remember the lady selling the house with squatter problems in Boston-Edison? She's still trying to sell her 4,400 square foot 6 bath historic mansion with plenty of architectural detail and dark wood panelling for $35K http://www.forsalebyowner.com/listin...2Bsyndication#

Yet, you call still continue to argue with me that a $700K house in Palmer Woods is a bargain. Sorry to break the news to you, but it's not a bargain. GP houses are worth so much more because of the value of the land in GP.

[davewindsor]

This thread is a f%cking mess, and it's the same cast of characters who don't live in the city nor know sh*t about it. Trolls, be gone.

Have you ever heard of Free Speech, Herr Goebbels?

[swingline]

Oh really. So what does a 10,000 sq. ft. house in your neighbourhood in the city of Detroit with all original old world elements rent for a month?

It doesn't command a higher price with all original elements. It's not selling for $10m-$15m, but $700K. $700K is what it's worth. Those extra elements are not recoverable when it sells. What it sells for is the market value. It's not bargain priced. What it sells for is its fair market value. It was listed for sale to anybody. That was the highest offer they got. In fact, the price sounds too high and I think he paid a premium for it. Come on, show me a house that sold for $10m-$15m in the City of Detroit in the past year because you claim these elements give it so much extra value and there's a "market for these homes."

Prove to me your $10m-$15m estimated price is justified using something other than an empty sales pitch. You remind me of one of those Filter Queen vacuum door-to-door salespeople who try to sell people on a $2,000 vacuum claiming it's quality. Meanwhile, I can pick up an older one from a garage sale for twenty bucks and clean it out and put new filters on it and it works just as good as a new $2,000 one. Hey, it's quality right? If I'm buying the vacuum cleaner for twenty bucks, that's what it's worth. I didn't get a bargain. The person who paid two grand got screwed by a salesperson using the old empty"quality" bs line.

Who said anything about quality Detroit mansions that should be selling for $10 million. This is a strawman argument. Sheesh. Yep, Davewindsor wins because houses in Detroit don't sell for $10 million.

[davewindsor]

Who said anything about quality Detroit mansions that should be selling for $10 million. This is a strawman argument. Sheesh. Yep, Davewindsor wins because houses in Detroit don't sell for $10 million.

Post #14. P69... said that the mansion that sold for $700K would cost between $10m-$15m to build and therefore it's a bargain. Calling it a bargain is implying that it should have sold for at least $10m [[his grossly over estimated replacement cost).

My contention is that it sold for $700K because that's what it's worth, not because it was a bargain. U dig?