Wal-Mart wants to open store in Southfield [Voted Down by Sfld Council]

[Zacha341]

I'm just glad I don't work in retail anymore. That was back in the early 90's and I saw alot of theft then. Shopping, I'm in and out of several stores in the city including Dollar General, Family Dollar, CVS etc.

Theft is incredible and growing. The CVS near me gets hit alot. The Dollar General up on Woodward near Clairmont puts all expensive meds and make up behind the counters. They have an alert blaring when you walk in that 'you-are-being-monitored [[for your protection)'. Sensor tags and sensor monitors on all doors.

There's an underground market for folks stealing stuff for resale. Some CVS and RiteAids have items such as the better body wash etc. behind clear sliding shelf shields that make a loud grating sound to alert security that the product is being remove, so they can see if the item eventually makes it to cash-register.

More expensive items are behind glass all the way. Ground Coffee and Tide and other expensive brands of detergent, baby formula etc. is kept behind the counters or sensors have to be applied.

The latest I noticed was ground coffee tops 'only' on the shelves. If you want the coffee you bring up the tops then get your container with the foil seal and they put the top on as they ring the item up. Some stores ask you to have their security staff hold your items you bring in while you shop. Insane!

Law abiding citizens put up with this daily, non-chalantly. You just get fatigued of seeing all these heroics to keep down the theft which is happening on the employee side too.

barely-veiled racism is behind the constant carping about "shrinkage".. theft can happen "anywhere"..

[gazhekwe]

Cinti Kid, I do live in Southfield. Vic, I believe Ken Siver, Joan Seymour and Myron Frazier would likely be no votes. On the fence about Sylvia Jordan and Sid Lantz. I don't know Jeremy Moss and believe Don Fracassi would be a yes vote.

[Vic_doucette]

Cinti Kid, I do live in Southfield. Vic, I believe Ken Siver, Joan Seymour and Myron Frazier would likely be no votes. On the fence about Sylvia Jordan and Sid Lantz. I don't know Jeremy Moss and believe Don Fracassi would be a yes vote.

Moss came through my neighborhood with 46th District Court wannabe Bill Seikaly one pre-election night when I was porch-sittin'. Both expressed interest in The Miracle League of Michigan and promised to show up at a game; Moss actually did. Seemed bright and earnest, but I can't read him much beyond that.

[Vic_doucette]

I ... believe Don Fracassi would be a yes vote.

Does he still own his market/party store on 12 Mile? I wonder if he thinks WalMart might hurt his business?

[Danny]

No Way! I been over that area around St. Bede's and that areas is just to small to build an EVIL WAL-MART! To fit that size its developers need to demolish a few small storefronts and half of Southfield's neighborhoods. I hope it wuld never happen, otherwise the mom and pop retail strips along Lathrup Village would dissapear.

[Honky Tonk]

I'm just glad I don't work in retail anymore. That was back in the early 90's and I saw alot of theft then. Shopping, I'm in and out of several stores in the city including Dollar General, Family Dollar, CVS etc.

Theft is incredible and growing. The CVS near me gets hit alot. The Dollar General up on Woodward near Clairmont puts all expensive meds and make up behind the counters. They have an alert blaring when you walk in that 'you-are-being-monitored [[for your protection)'. Sensor tags and sensor monitors on all doors.

There's an underground market for folks stealing stuff for resale. Some CVS and RiteAids have items such as the better body wash etc. behind clear sliding shelf shields that make a loud grating sound to alert security that the product is being remove, so they can see if the item eventually makes it to cash-register.

More expensive items are behind glass all the way. Ground Coffee and Tide and other expensive brands of detergent, baby formula etc. is kept behind the counters or sensors have to be applied.

The latest I noticed was ground coffee tops 'only' on the shelves. If you want the coffee you bring up the tops then get your container with the foil seal and they put the top on as they ring the item up. Some stores ask you to have their security staff hold your items you bring in while you shop. Insane!

Law abiding citizens put up with this daily, non-chalantly. You just get fatigued of seeing all these heroics to keep down the theft which is happening on the employee side too.

THOSE are incredible stories. Then people wonder why more businesses don't move into Detroit. It has to be costing companies money just to try to keep their doors open. These thieves don't seem to care that they're hurting their nieghborhoods. People here post nonsense that suburbanites "abandoned" Detroit. Who wants to continue living under those conditions?

[stasu1213]

I would love to see a Walmart in the strip mall at Jefferson and St Jean

[Honky Tonk]

I would love to see a Walmart in the strip mall at Jefferson and St Jean

I would like to see ANYTHING in the strip mall @ Jefferson & St. Jean...

[313WX]

I would love to see a Walmart in the strip mall at Jefferson and St Jean

Kroger didn't even want to inherit the old Farmer Jack, so we can forget seeing a Wal-Mart over there.

In fact, there was a rumor that Home Depot and Meijer were scouting the land east of St. Jean and south of Jefferson for development. We see, 5-10 years later, how well that played out.

[p69rrh51]

When its all said and done its not that the retailers want to stay away from Detroit, its the city's dirty little secret that keeps them away. Shrinkage is beyond what any major retailer can tolerate. Its what kept Kroger from taking over the Farmer Jack's in the Detroit and its what keeps almost everyone out, and now Whole Foods is about to get a very good idea why they are all by themselves here. And as mentioned they can get your money anyway where they are now.

[Honky Tonk]

When its all said and done its not that the retailers want to stay away from Detroit, its the city's dirty little secret that keeps them away. Shrinkage is beyond what any major retailer can tolerate. Its what kept Kroger from taking over the Farmer Jack's in the Detroit and its what keeps almost everyone out, and now Whole Foods is about to get a very good idea why they are all by themselves here. And as mentioned they can get your money anyway where they are now.

On several occaisions, stolen vehicles were driven right through the store fronts and store contents removed. How desperate do you have to be to pull a stunt like that?

[aj3647]

Now, the real question is why does Wal Mart want to build in New York but not in Detroit?

Just to name a few reasons?

• Competent city government
• A professional, staffed, and responsive police force
• WAY lower crime rates
• Effective city services

NYC has these things, Detroit does not. It's the same reason why NYC's population has increased, while Detroit is America's fastest-shrinking city. The same basic factors that make a city an attractive place for people to live also make it attractive for business.

[313WX]

Now, the real question is why does Wal Mart want to build in New York but not in Detroit?

New York City is not Detroit.

[hybridy]

I'm just glad I don't work in retail anymore. That was back in the early 90's and I saw alot of theft then. Shopping, I'm in and out of several stores in the city including Dollar General, Family Dollar, CVS etc.

Theft is incredible and growing. The CVS near me gets hit alot. The Dollar General up on Woodward near Clairmont puts all expensive meds and make up behind the counters. They have an alert blaring when you walk in that 'you-are-being-monitored [[for your protection)'. Sensor tags and sensor monitors on all doors.

There's an underground market for folks stealing stuff for resale. Some CVS and RiteAids have items such as the better body wash etc. behind clear sliding shelf shields that make a loud grating sound to alert security that the product is being remove, so they can see if the item eventually makes it to cash-register.

More expensive items are behind glass all the way. Ground Coffee and Tide and other expensive brands of detergent, baby formula etc. is kept behind the counters or sensors have to be applied.

The latest I noticed was ground coffee tops 'only' on the shelves. If you want the coffee you bring up the tops then get your container with the foil seal and they put the top on as they ring the item up. Some stores ask you to have their security staff hold your items you bring in while you shop. Insane!

Law abiding citizens put up with this daily, non-chalantly. You just get fatigued of seeing all these heroics to keep down the theft which is happening on the employee side too.

baby formula has been locked up everywhere well back into the 80's. for those not aware, infant formula is the bonding agent in crack cocaine. it makes the 'crack rock'

[iheartthed]

Just to name a few reasons?

• Competent city government
• A professional, staffed, and responsive police force
• WAY lower crime rates
• Effective city services

NYC has these things, Detroit does not. It's the same reason why NYC's population has increased, while Detroit is America's fastest-shrinking city. The same basic factors that make a city an attractive place for people to live also make it attractive for business.

Why Baltimore? Why the south side of Chicago?

ETA: Even New Orleans has a Wal Mart and the murder rate there is worse than Detroit.

[stasu1213]

New York is much better managed than Detroit. Dave Bing and council had done everthing in their power to make Detroit a less desirable place to live and do business with the exception of Midtown. There will probably be more police patrol around midtown when WholeFoods open. Sad to say that had not happened when YOBS and Lafayette Foods had opened their doors. I agree with P69. Some of the potential retail that want to open in Detroit had been shut out. Bing and company is no different than Kilpatrick and company. Maybe the Feds should investigate this administration also

[Zacha341]

That's true for certain. The ground coffee and Tide detergent are NEW entrants to the behind the counter scene. Crazy isn't it?

baby formula has been locked up everywhere well back into the 80's. for those not aware, infant formula is the bonding agent in crack cocaine. it makes the 'crack rock'

[Zacha341]

Hah! Too busy of an intersection as it is. They will not be getting my business.

No Way! I been over that area around St. Bede's and that areas is just to small to build an EVIL WAL-MART! To fit that size its developers need to demolish a few small storefronts and half of Southfield's neighborhoods. I hope it wuld never happen, otherwise the mom and pop retail strips along Lathrup Village would dissapear.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

New York is much better managed than Detroit. Dave Bing and council had done everthing in their power to make Detroit a less desirable place to live and do business with the exception of Midtown. There will probably be more police patrol around midtown when WholeFoods open. Sad to say that had not happened when YOBS and Lafayette Foods had opened their doors. I agree with P69. Some of the potential retail that want to open in Detroit had been shut out. Bing and company is no different than Kilpatrick and company. Maybe the Feds should investigate this administration also

While I agree with you on Bing's administration being incompetent, to suggest that he's corrupted like KK is pure hyperbole.

[rooms222]

[QUOTE=iheartthed;362234]

Now, the real question is why does Wal Mart want to build in New York but not in Detroit? I know the knee jerk response is that New York residents have more disposable income than Detroit residents. While that stat is "true", it's not the reason. The likely Wal Mart shoppers in New York really aren't all that demographically different than the ones who live in Detroit.

Okay, so still, why does Wal Mart want to be in New York but not in Detroit, if it's targeting the same types of people, which both cities have in abundance? The difference is that most New Yorkers of any demographics will not leave the borders of New York City to shop. Doesn't matter if they live in the worst ghetto of the Bronx or the most posh area of Manhattan. Most New Yorkers spend their money within New York City.


***************
I think this is a very accurate observation that gets at one of the frequent points of discussion on this forum- the freedom of the automobile vs. the freedom of public transit. Some people primarily see the freedom of the automobile that impacts our region- e.g. if you are going shopping by car [[whether your own car or riding with someone else, like a friend or family member), you will use your freedom to drive to the store/location/demographic that appeals to you. If a store is dirty, busy, not cool, or not filled with your bunch of cool people, you will often take a few more minutes to drive to the one that better suits how you feel. This also means that if a store [[or even its demographics) are not up to snuff [[in the eye of the shopper), people will go to a different store. Thus, a shopper from Highland Park could end up at the Walmart in South Livonia, North Livonia, Novi, Troy, Sterling Heights, or Commerce Township [[where I was shopping with my friend from Highland Park and ran into her brother who lived in the same house at the time, and unbeknownst to her, drove up there to go shopping as well). This individual freedom causes uncertainty and change in trade patterns, and points up the migration and abandonment in our region. It also fails to leverage the population effectively for transit, as everyone goes to unpredictable places in all directions to shop and go to work, and even worse, changes exactly where from year to year, making transit difficult to build and execute successfully. This may explain some of the criticism of this aspect of the region, because we have a lot of people, which could make transit viable, but our chosen behavior with automobiles to drive so randomly to shop, work, and visit friends, makes it hard to use full size buses on fixed routes, much less build a heavy rail subway.

Then, there is the other side of the coin, the internal stability and development often fostered by public transit, which helps build up the areas where it runs [[often in ways different from the development that occurs in an auto-centric lifestyle), and allows personal freedom by allowing movement without a car. Some people complain that the freedom of public transit gets short shrift in the region. There is freedom in having regular, reliable, frequent public transportation- that you can go places without a car, and accomplish most of your life without one. Although important in your city of residence, by going to work and shopping, this freedom is often experienced in travel, as this experience can be as expansive as a week in New York or Europe, or even a weekend in St. Louis where you can fly in, go downtown, and go back to the airport, all with public transportation. That is not to say transit is a panacea. It is expensive, requires a degree of stability and density [[or the ability to build density as the system is developed).

To point out the difference between NYC and Detroit, many people in NYC go where their Metrocard takes them. If they have a monthly pass, an extra trip costs nothing more. By comparison, going to Valley Stream on the LIRR [[commuter train that does not accept the Metrocard) to go to Walmart costs an extra $14.50 per person round trip from Penn Station. There are special cheaper weekend fares on commuter rail that only apply to trips entirely within the city, and not to Valley Stream. Going to NJ also costs extra. Such trips outside the city cost a lot more with public transit [[unless you spend hours transferring from bus to bus which you can do with a metro card, even in parts of LI and Westchester with a Metrocard), but the patterns of where you go with public transit apply to some extent during the weekend as well, even if you are taking a car or commuter rail. Thus, there is an incentive for WalMart or Target to get some stores in the city, preferably right off one of the Subway lines, like most of the Targets developed within the city.

[iheartthed]

To point out the difference between NYC and Detroit, many people in NYC go where their Metrocard takes them. If they have a monthly pass, an extra trip costs nothing more. By comparison, going to Valley Stream on the LIRR [[commuter train that does not accept the Metrocard) to go to Walmart costs an extra $14.50 per person round trip from Penn Station. There are special cheaper weekend fares on commuter rail that only apply to trips entirely within the city, and not to Valley Stream. Going to NJ also costs extra. Such trips outside the city cost a lot more with public transit [[unless you spend hours transferring from bus to bus which you can do with a metro card, even in parts of LI and Westchester with a Metrocard), but the patterns of where you go with public transit apply to some extent during the weekend as well, even if you are taking a car or commuter rail. Thus, there is an incentive for WalMart or Target to get some stores in the city, preferably right off one of the Subway lines, like most of the Targets developed within the city.

I agree with what you say. Public transportation does have a way of keeping retail dollars local. But I would add that even among people in NYC who don't use public transportation, they tend to shop in NYC versus driving outside of NYC limits.

Walmart has locations in Philadelphia, Baltimore, New Orleans, Cleveland, Memphis, Atlanta. All of these cities have crime rates that rival Detroit's. So clearly Walmart doesn't have an aversion to areas of high crime. With the exception of Philadelphia, none of these cities have much in the way of rail transit either.

What I believe is that Detroiters have a culture of not spending money in Detroit so retailers don't really have to even bother trying to build conveniently for Detroit consumers.

[rooms222]

I agree with what you say. Public transportation does have a way of keeping retail dollars local. But I would add that even among people in NYC who don't use public transportation, they tend to shop in NYC versus driving outside of NYC limits.

Agree

What I believe is that Detroiters have a culture of not spending money in Detroit so retailers don't really have to even bother trying to build conveniently for Detroit consumers.

Yes, this happens even in the suburbs of Detroit. I have seen the general westward trend in shopping in the Western suburbs. When I lived in Redford, people started to stop going to the stores in Redford, first migrating to shopping on Middlebelt with the original Walmart & Meijer stores there around 2000, and now migrated out to Haggerty road and Novi. From what I could tell, many in Livonia would not shop nearest their home, but at the very least shop out along 275 and Haggerty, much of the time.

[wolverine]

They should buy the Hotel Charlevoix and put a store on the ground floor and give free rent to indentured servants they can get from abroad. Of course, they'll have to buy everything on credit. Hahahahah [[Not that Americans don't still buy a lot on credit even if non-student loan debt has decreased).

Funny thing... what's surprising is Wal-Mart has moved into some very complicated old historic buildings. But I'm also surprised they have moved into some pretty awful old buildings that I was shocked did not meet the wrecking ball.

[Vic_doucette]

Somebody was in front of the Southfield Public Library last night asking people to sign a petition in favor of bringing WalMart to the city. I'm not sure what the purpose was for this, but I impolitely declined.

[MidTownMs]

I would like to see ANYTHING in the strip mall @ Jefferson & St. Jean...

I used to work in the halfway house across from that strip mall back in 2007. Even then the only thing missing was tumbleweeds. When the Farmer Jack closed it was all over.