Judge signs order to demolish Charlevoix Hotel

**canuck** · January-13-13, 09:14 PM

I agree with you wolvarine and p69rrh51, this kind of building is easily saved and with proper care will give our cities a much richer environment than the wholesale destruction even if replaced by a glazed tower. The best projects I've seen in Montreal in the past thirty years have been overhauls into condos or offices from industrial bldgs. This is a personal opinion, but I really like bldgs with history, that is why I am looking for an old house in the city. I am not a condo lover but I appreciate the work that has gone into redesigning older bldgs in my city, the landscaping and integration with bike paths along the Lachine canal in particular. Detroit has the quality buildings to refurbish a downtown and midtown without adding on massive unprepossessing architecture in some cases.

I hope the market forces of sprawliness and unattentiveness to the built environment take a turn toward caring for historical or at least lived in architecture. Besides there are 40 year old buildings shedding their concrete skins onto pedestrians too...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montre...killed745.html

**rjlj** · January-13-13, 10:51 PM

Very much agreed Richard, I was going to say the same thing. But Karla Henderson's stance is that an empty lot is more attractive to developers than an existing building. The educated and observant know that is complete BS and developers are not building on Detroit vacant lots but re-developing existing buildings and will do so for the next 20 years until it makes sense to build new.

Get ready for a vacant lot for the next 30+ years. The new arena will not be built behind the Fox and all the vacant land is an embarassment.

Originally Posted by Richard

The buildings are an asset to the city in a way, it is a shame for a city that has so much architectural value that is not replicated in other cities to be laid to waste.

90% of all of the currant development is occurring with existing buildings and not vacant land.Granted it would take millions to rehabilitate it but it would also take millions to replace it. What is really the end game in replacing it?

How many people have ever said ,hey lets go to Detroit and check out all of the new buildings,yea high on my list why waste the gas time and energy when you can go anywhere to see new buildings.

That is what happens though one by one they fade away then one day in the future people sit there and say what were they thinking back then?

**Gistok** · January-13-13, 11:21 PM

Also... as far as facade improvement grants go... there's lots of politics there... I know of one building owner that applied for a facade improvement grant back before the Superbowl... but was turned down because supposedly the paperwork was not in order... and had to be done from the beginning again... he saw that he was being given the run-around and just didn't bother. And ironically there was money left over before the Superbowl...

**WaCoTS** · January-14-13, 12:33 AM

This one is straight out of the play book, give or take a few tweaks or skipped steps.

How to Demolish a Historic Building in 10 Easy Steps:

1. Acquire a building that was once used for industry, preferably an obsolete one. These buildings have been known to be situated close to water and shipping lanes, so will have great views which you can exploit later.

2. Don't worry if the building was on the National Register, or protected by the State. Don't listen to the people who may have great ideas to redevelop the project. You don't want all that hassle and all those "conversations."

3. Sit on it. For a long time. It would help if it was already derelict when you bought it because the previous owner was losing money as their industry was becoming obsolete.

4. Let graffiti accumulate. Hipsters will love it, but they don't vote, so they won't raise an eyebrow when you eventually take it down.

5. The neighborhood will soon forget about the activity that went on there and the buildings own "glory days." It will start to look horrible, and they will start to complain about it.

6. Keep sitting on it. It would help if you complained about the cost of potential renovations while you did so.

7. Let security around the perimeter go lax. Teenagers and vagrants will get in, wreck the place, and maybe start a fire or two. If you are lucky, that will take care of it. If not, it becomes a hazard and a public nuisance.

8. Finally, after years of neglect, declare the place not worth saving, and obtain an “emergency demolition” permit, which trumps all historic considerations in favor of public safety. The city will go along because the neighbors have been complaining, and since you hold the checkbook, they will be too scared to demand anything more from you.

9. [[Optional) Build a parking lot while you "wait for the market to become ripe."

10. Build something there that won't last for as long as the building you just let go to waste, but instead will remain shiny and new for about five. Sell it off once you've made your money, and let them worry about the upkeep.

this building is NOT too far gone to reuse.
tell that to the people who rebuilt fucking Dresden, and every other city that was bombed into oblivion.

1) the owner is at fault for having a dilapidated property for decades, and for endangering the public.

2) the city is at fault for not handing down the proper code citations and fines, and for allowing him to endanger the public.

there is nothing complicated about what is going on here.

**Gistok** · January-14-13, 01:28 AM

WaCoTS, what is happening in Dresden Germany... which no longer existed after the Firebombings of Feb 13, 1945, is nothing short of AMAZING.... they are rebuilding the Baroque city's royal quarter... since the Cathedral was rebuilt from the rubble... finished in 2006...

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...=250017&page=2

**Hermod** · January-14-13, 05:42 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Also... as far as facade improvement grants go... there's lots of politics there... I know of one building owner that applied for a facade improvement grant back before the Superbowl... but was turned down because supposedly the paperwork was not in order... and had to be done from the beginning again... he saw that he was being given the run-around and just didn't bother. And ironically there was money left over before the Superbowl...

Probably given the run around because the plans didn't include any provisions for "friends and family" to get a cut.

**gnome** · January-14-13, 07:09 AM

So let us consider the Charlevoix is gone because it has rotted in place. What year in its long-slow demise did it go from viable to ruined? What building today sits in that same condition? What building is teetering on the edge?

I remember when the Charlevoix had a bar on the first floor at the corner of Park and Elizabeth, I think it was kind of a hooker bar, pretty seedy with not much going for it. That was in the mid-eighties.

**Honky Tonk** · January-14-13, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by gnome

So let us consider the Charlevoix is gone because it has rotted in place. What year in its long-slow demise did it go from viable to ruined? What building today sits in that same condition? What building is teetering on the edge?

The bigger question is what procedures have been put in place to prevent this kind of incident from happening again?

**313WX** · January-14-13, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by ismoakrack

I thought even the prosaic warehouse behind the hotel was a loss and a terrible waste. Even on the rare occasion a new building is erected on the site of a former structure, it is almost always a fraction of the size of the former building. One building at a time, Detroit is becoming a small town.

Pretty much this.

**gnome** · January-14-13, 10:48 AM

Just walked around the Charlevoix and the Fence of Death has been extended around the Park Avenue Building on the corner of Adams and Park. That building, across from the Kales, was built by Albert Kahn in the mid to early 1920s, but has sat empty for at least 20 years.

Also, the flophouse next door, the site of the former Oriental Theater, now called the Park Apartments is all boarded up. A temporary door is installed in the middle of the plywood covering the front, but the place is all locked up.

The Milner people own the Park Apartments, and since they just sold their place over in Harmonie Park, one must wonder if they are selling the place.

i have speculated that Ilitch will build his new hockey palace on the back side of the United Artist Building and close off that stretch of Adams, so maybe so. He could remove all those buildings and have ample room for a new arena and the lucrative parking concession.

**downtownguy** · January-14-13, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by gnome

i have speculated that Ilitch will build his new hockey palace on the back side of the United Artist Building and close off that stretch of Adams, so maybe so. He could remove all those buildings and have ample room for a new arena and the lucrative parking concession.

Is that an inference that the great preservationist Ilitch may be complicit in having the Charlevoix destroyed?

**Honky Tonk** · January-14-13, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by downtownguy

Is that an inference that the great preservationist Ilitch may be complicit in having the Charlevoix destroyed?

You'll never be able to prove a thing.

**gnome** · January-14-13, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by downtownguy

Is that an inference that the great preservationist Ilitch may be complicit in having the Charlevoix destroyed?

I would have no idea, however, just because I know nothing doesn't make me not wonder about certain truths.

One truth is that the Charlevoix has been sitting forever and the owner has not been either able or willing to get the financing to fix the place or even secure the darn thing. I will assume this guy has that Detroit Thing called the Golden Ticket Syndrome. The GTS is the mindset that whatever they are holding on to is freaking priceless and if they can just hold on long enough they will be able to cash in their Golden Ticket.

The School Board has GTS bad. It was GTS that made them hold on to the old Cass Tech Building until it was picked clean and worthless.

So, the theory goes that Charlevoix Owner held on too long and never got a chance to cash in; the savior Ilitch never came knocking and neither did Ilitch's water boy, George Jackson.

Jackson doesn't extend any financing, no commercial lender is going to touch that pig, and the guy goes belly up.

Now the Park Building might be a different story. I hear it is City owned, but don't know for sure. Since it has sat for so long, you have to wonder who owns the place.

The Park Apartments has been run as a sort of flophouse and transient bumville for 30 years at least. With the Milner Family selling off their flatiron building in Harmonie Park, and now the new plywood covering the front of the Park Apartments one has to wonder what is going on.

If I was a fan of conspiracies I could conjure a scenario where Ilitch puts the squeeze on Jackson; Jackson freezes out Mr. Charlevoix, allows the Park Building to be sold for chump change and then the Park Apartments gets visited by code enforcement fiends.

Milner sees the writing on the wall, closes their dump, and slinks away with a Brinks Truck of pepperoni pies.

But I wouldn't think such thing could happen since I don't believe in conspiracies .

**downtownguy** · January-14-13, 10:32 PM

^^^ lol. No, I don't believe in conspiracies either... except sometimes.

Shollin · January-14-13, 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Pretty much this.

I figured it was Detroit's rapidly declining population, but yea losing a vacant building is a sign of Detroit becoming a small town.

**Bad Brains** · January-14-13, 11:31 PM

Originally Posted by neavling

The stairways have been taken out to keep trespassers out

Wrong. You're not a very good Muckraker when you make up your own facts.

**313WX** · January-14-13, 11:32 PM

Originally Posted by Shollin

I figured it was Detroit's rapidly declining population, but yea losing a vacant building is a sign of Detroit becoming a small town.

Detroit Future City = Detroit Small Town.

**Bad Brains** · January-14-13, 11:41 PM

Originally Posted by neavling

I've been inside the hotel.

By admitting to trespassing, you're letting everyone know you're part of the problem and part of why this building is being torn down. Good job at contributing to the destruction of our architectural history.

**Bad Brains** · January-14-13, 11:48 PM

Mr. Sachs mentioned once he would be interested in pressing charges of people posting photos on certain "historic Detroit" websites. Are you sure you were inside that hotel?

**Gistok** · January-15-13, 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by Bad Brains

By admitting to trespassing, you're letting everyone know you're part of the problem and part of why this building is being torn down. Good job at contributing to the destruction of our architectural history.

Nice try... but the Slippery Slope fallacy is nothing new on this forum....

**KJ5** · January-15-13, 01:05 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Nice try... but the Slippery Slope fallacy is nothing new on this forum....

Nor is scapegoating...

**ismoakrack** · January-15-13, 01:44 AM

Oh Shollin, you never cease to embarrass yourself on this forum

**neavling** · January-15-13, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by Bad Brains

By admitting to trespassing, you're letting everyone know you're part of the problem and part of why this building is being torn down. Good job at contributing to the destruction of our architectural history.

Yea, yea, yea.

**neavling** · January-15-13, 10:19 AM

For those of you interested in seeing inside the building, I posted photos from two winters ago. You can see the decay of the interior after more than 30 years of sitting vacant. And yes, I know the tired arguments of going inside abandoned buildings. This is the first time I posted the photos to discourage trespassing. Plus, the building is not accessible anymore.

Here are the photos. They are HDR and are too big to post here. http://motorcitymuckraker.com/2013/0...cted-building/

**Honky Tonk** · January-15-13, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by neavling

For those of you interested in seeing inside the building, I posted photos from two winters ago. You can see the decay of the interior after more than 30 years of sitting vacant. And yes, I know the tired arguments of going inside abandoned buildings. This is the first time I posted the photos to discourage trespassing. Plus, the building is not accessible anymore.

Here are the photos. They are HDR and are too big to post here. http://motorcitymuckraker.com/2013/0...cted-building/

Good photos. What a mess and very sad. Top row, right photo, what is that metal looking grate door behind the deteriorating plaster? Is that an elevator? Thanx.