Federal Funding [[$25 million) for M-1 Light Rail

**gthomas** · January-20-13, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by royce

I know the plans are etched in stone, but if this rail-line is only going to New Center for the time being, why have it stop at Grand Blvd. Why not have it go to Henry Ford Hospital/Motown Museum area? With many folks moving to Midtown, I can only assume that some of those new residents will be working at Henry Ford Hospital. Also, if this light rail-line is considered to be more of a tourist-bus than rapid transit, then why not actually have a tourist's destination such as Motown Museum? If it is decided to extend the line beyond the Boulevard, then this can be the local line. Just a thought.

I believe Henry Ford Hospital did mentioned awhile back that they will like a light rail loop/link to M-1 Rail line. It was a small loop plan/concept, looping from Motown Museum to the west and John R. to the east. I'm not sure if this is still being thought out, no discussion lately. Dead in the water...

**emu steve** · January-20-13, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by gthomas

Great point, even though we're in early stages of this project. I'm sure they will give more details and renderings of the whole plan. I'm wondering also if this development includes parking structures, maybe at the end of the New Center location and/or Sibley location. Will the new multi-modal transit center planned, south of the current Amtrak station be built along with the construction of this project. Hope to hear a solid, accurate plan of the system...wondering how the rail cars and stations will look.

I would guess any parking garages built say near Woodward/Sibley would quickly become a good place to park and transfer to the M-1 rail.

The times I'm in Detroit for a Tigers game I always find the easiest thing is to drive to Woodward/Sibley and walk to Comerica.

If I needed to go deep into the CBD, I'd hop the train there and go that way.

**Brian1979** · January-20-13, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by emu steve

Quick pivot:

I looked at the M-1 plan. It has an Amtrk stop.

I note that Dearborn is planning an Amtrk stop along Michigan Ave. just west of Southfield.

This means that someone could take a train from Dearborn, Ann Arbor, etc. to the M-1 rail station and then head toward the CBD.

Might be too expensive to be practical but still I like it.

To and from Detroit one way it's not too bad.

$6.00 for Dearborn
$12.00 for Ann Arbor
$10.00 for Royal Oak
$11.00 for Birmingham
$12.00 for Pontiac

**gthomas** · January-21-13, 08:51 PM

As a biker/cyclist, Woodward will be impossible to ride up and down once M1 rail is up and running. With that being said, alternative routes like Cass Ave, Second Ave and John R. St. will see more traffic from cyclists. Will M1 rail be accessible for cyclists wanting to use the system to get up and down Woodward, equipped with space/racks inside the vehicles?

**Richard** · January-21-13, 10:09 PM

There are some cities that allow fold up bikes on street cars or full bikes in non peak times when space is available so it is not that you can count on it every time.Some have an added fee as the bike is now a passenger also in a sense.

Some stops or transfer points have bike racks that you can secure your bike to but that only works when you are on a two way trip.The bus racks can only hold x amount of bikes anyways so even they are limited.

No rail cars currently being built that can safely accommodate bikes and riders en-mass but it is something to think about . Maybe slide out trays that come out from under the carriage,have to see if that is possible.

**Jimaz** · January-21-13, 11:33 PM

Just for fun:

Attachment 17982
The Guy with the Train in his Basement

Jason Shron from Rapido Trains Inc. loves VIA trains so much, he built a full-size train in his basement!

KingstonSub.com

**gthomas** · January-22-13, 02:18 AM

Originally Posted by Richard

There are some cities that allow fold up bikes on street cars or full bikes in non peak times when space is available so it is not that you can count on it every time.Some have an added fee as the bike is now a passenger also in a sense.

Some stops or transfer points have bike racks that you can secure your bike to but that only works when you are on a two way trip.The bus racks can only hold x amount of bikes anyways so even they are limited.

No rail cars currently being built that can safely accommodate bikes and riders en-mass but it is something to think about . Maybe slide out trays that come out from under the carriage,have to see if that is possible.

I'm going to miss biking down Woodward going south from New Center, the views are so much dope than being in the car. In some ways, now I've wished for a centered street concept.

**Cincinnati** · January-22-13, 05:30 PM

You will still be able to bike down Woodward. Modern streetcars also accomodate bicycles. It is very rare that a streetcar would charge extra for a bike. The Portland streetcar allows you to roll your bike right on. The Cincinnati streetcar will be the same.

"No rail cars currently being built that can safely accommodate bikes and riders en-mass but it is something to think about" - Richard

Where are you getting your information?

http://www.portlandstreetcar.org/node/6

**Richard** · January-22-13, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by Cincinnati

You will still be able to bike down Woodward. Modern streetcars also accomodate bicycles. It is very rare that a streetcar would charge extra for a bike. The Portland streetcar allows you to roll your bike right on. The Cincinnati streetcar will be the same.

"No rail cars currently being built that can safely accommodate bikes and riders en-mass but it is something to think about" - Richard

Where are you getting your information?

http://www.portlandstreetcar.org/node/6

en masse adverb all together, as a body, as a group, as a whole, as one, at the same time, collectively, en bloc, ensemble, in assembly, in mass, in the aggregate, together

Now that it is clear the definition of en-masse even though I forgot the E.

Read here http://www.trimet.org/howtoride/bikes/index.htm

Can you have a job downtown Detroit and use the proposed street car to go back and forth by riding your bike ? and it still stands as of now No,why because as the cars are designed currently the bike riding population will take second place and be able to bring their bike aboard only if their is space available if not then you have to wait for another car and hope it has space available.So you cannot be on a tight schedule and expect to be on time every time.

Some of Portland's street cars and light transit cars do accommodate up to 6 bikes max,but not all do,so if you are the seventh bike rider then you are SOL and have to wait for the next car. Odds are if you have 100 riders there are going to be more then 6 bike riders,even more so in Detroit because in the beginning that is what will happen,people from the neighborhoods will bike to the street cars to go to work. Those cars were retrofitted to allow for bikes and not designed to accommodate en-masse.

Which is also why they highly recommend using a fold up bike.Which would gaurente you a spot every time.Which is what it is really about.

That is the key to transit if that schedule says the car will arrive at 2:15 it better be there at 2:15 every time, no excuses.

Then you can read here about what the other riders feel about bikes on the street cars .

http://rahmangramlyblog.blogspot.com...s-on-muni.html

In New York

Commuter & Regional Rail

The bicycle policies on railroads in the region vary. Bikes may be restricted to specific cars, and generally a limited number of bikes are allowed in each car. Follow
LIRR & Metro-North

A lifetime $5 permit is required for each passenger with a bike. Bikes generally allowed, except at rush hour in the peak direction and on holidays.

So if one rides a bike and decides on a casual day to ride the street car to down town yes you may be able to bring your bike at no charge ,but most likely it will be like the others and not allowed during peak times.

The key is to be able to offer the bike riding public that option included with a timely schedule,so then in that case the street cars will have to be designed to accommodate more bikes being able to be stored quickly and safely ,not retro fitted which would probably add another $100k to the cost of manufacture ,as to if there should be a extra charge to recoup this cost is still up to debate.

The actual designs when placing the street cars route now take into consideration the bike riding public and account for it.

You have to look at how everything will flow,street cars,automobile,bicyclists,landscaping and pedestrians so it does not become a hazard,everything will fit.

**Cincinnati** · January-22-13, 08:06 PM

I realize what you meant. Accomodating six bikes is pretty good IMO. Buses currently only hold 2 bikes and they are out in the elements [[at least in Cincinnati). There is only so much space on public transportation, so they can't allow a group of 20 people to all ride a streetcar with a bike in tow.

You're also comparing the busiest commuter rail line in the country to a streetcar in Detroit. The Metro-North Line and LIRR have a very difficult time accommodating people during rush hour who have no other alternative [[Try a 30 mile commute from Long Island to Manhattan by bike).

The M-1 is "only" going to be ~3.1 miles long each way. This is a bikeable distance. In the long-term, the line should stretch to 8-mile Road, where I could see many more people using the system for part of a bike-streetcar commute. This is fine, because as you get closer to downtown, fewer bike riders will be getting on the system because they would save time by biking instead of waiting for the streetcar. The initial phase of the M-1 will be heavily used by pedestrians, not bikers. But the vehicles will be equipped to accomodate a decent number of bicyclists because there will be some demand for it [[especially after expansion).

As for the bicyclists on the street, Detroit is very lucky to have wide boulevards to accomodate a large variety of transportation options. Most streets here in Cincinnati are 4 lanes wide, and two of those are parking lanes. We are adding a streetcar and biking will still be common on these streets. Woodward four lanes in the downtown core, Seven lanes past Adams and NINE near the edge of the proposed line!

Once the street reaches nine lanes [[in the future phases of the line) I would argue for a system with its own designated right of way next to the sidewalk. Then a parking lane, then five lanes of moving traffic up/down Woodward. You all are lucky to have this. Cincinnati struggles with it's ROW.

I agree that a lot of planning/engineering will need to be done to ensure that all modes of public transportation can work in harmony.

**Richard** · January-22-13, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by Cincinnati

I realize what you meant. Accomodating six bikes is pretty good IMO. Buses currently only hold 2 bikes and they are out in the elements [[at least in Cincinnati). There is only so much space on public transportation, so they can't allow a group of 20 people to all ride a streetcar with a bike in tow.

You're also comparing the busiest commuter rail line in the country to a streetcar in Detroit. The Metro-North Line and LIRR have a very difficult time accommodating people during rush hour who have no other alternative [[Try a 30 mile commute from Long Island to Manhattan by bike).

The M-1 is "only" going to be ~3.1 miles long each way. This is a bikeable distance. In the long-term, the line should stretch to 8-mile Road, where I could see many more people using the system for part of a bike-streetcar commute. This is fine, because as you get closer to downtown, fewer bike riders will be getting on the system because they would save time by biking instead of waiting for the streetcar. The initial phase of the M-1 will be heavily used by pedestrians, not bikers. But the vehicles will be equipped to accomodate a decent number of bicyclists because there will be some demand for it [[especially after expansion).

As for the bicyclists on the street, Detroit is very lucky to have wide boulevards to accomodate a large variety of transportation options. Most streets here in Cincinnati are 4 lanes wide, and two of those are parking lanes. We are adding a streetcar and biking will still be common on these streets. Woodward four lanes in the downtown core, Seven lanes past Adams and NINE near the edge of the proposed line!

Once the street reaches nine lanes [[in the future phases of the line) I would argue for a system with its own designated right of way next to the sidewalk. Then a parking lane, then five lanes of moving traffic up/down Woodward. You all are lucky to have this. Cincinnati struggles with it's ROW.

I agree that a lot of planning/engineering will need to be done to ensure that all modes of public transportation can work in harmony.

I really did not compare anything until you asked where I got my information,so as a courtesy I replied ,no harm no foul.

Personally I do not really care about how it is done anywhere else other then the advanced study of how all the systems merge and work together without anybody getting run over,and those systems are in place elsewhere and one can take the good and bad and remove the bad to come up with a better system.

Detroit needs to be setting the bar instead of playing the well it is done like this here and over here.

But he does bring up a valid point because if say for instance somebody works the night shift downtown and rides the bike to the streetcar then when the streetcar is not running at 3 am when he or she is off work they can bike back home.I have done the ride the bike ten miles to work and when you get there you are tired and not as productive.

In any city third shift is the hardest to fill because of limited transportation.There is a large group of people that would and could fill those spots if it were not for the lack of transportation after hours.

The point is that as I said the merging of the use of bike and streetcar has been somewhat of a afterthought and clearly needs more thought in the construction of the cars to accommodate the bikes, once again en-masse, because until the system is complete it will draw more ridership by accommodating the bike aspect or possibly open up a new revenue stream for systems already in place.

Ha, so now you have other cities saying "Hey this how they do it in Detroit" why cannot we do it that way?

But the whole curbside running thing boils down to revenue streams, ridership pays 20% of operating costs ,taxable value of a property on a direct line IE step out of the car into a doorway, is higher then running down the center,it is complicated and personally I prefer running it in the center,but I have seen the numbers on both versions and one still needs to pay for it in the end to make it available.