Federal Funding [[$25 million) for M-1 Light Rail

**Hermod** · January-17-13, 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by detroitbob

A great point...the city has streets ready to accept this mode again...remember we already had streetcars!

Yes, we had very comfortable streetcars with reclining seats, footrests, wi-fi and charging stations at every seat, elevator music piped through the car, ahhh the glory days.

Attachment 17921

**Richard** · January-17-13, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by Hermod

Curbside running on Woodward is nothing new.

Attachment 17920

notice everybody has full shopping bags,but they do not look to happy.

**Hermod** · January-18-13, 05:00 AM

Originally Posted by Richard

notice everybody has full shopping bags,but they do not look to happy.

Waiting for a steetcar which is probably running late. Not all of them will be able to get on and will have to wait for the next car. For the ones who do get on, they will be packed in like sardines and it will be crowded. It is obviously December and they are all freezing out there [[no goretex parkas in those days).

**stinkytofu** · January-18-13, 09:07 AM

Ok, this is encouraging, but I've become pretty disillusioned over time with this project - plenty of starts and stops.

Can anybody explain what this announcement actually means...as in is all funding secure? What other gov't approvals need to come? What's the earliest construction could start? Any other significant road blocks ahead?

**Wheels** · January-18-13, 09:25 AM

It's a 3mile train that will never generate enough funding to support itself.
Sound familiar?

**allhype101** · January-18-13, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by Wheels

It's a 3mile train that will never generate enough funding to support itself.
Sound familiar?

You don't feel that The People Mover could benefit from light-rail feeding into it, vice versa? I think, at the very least, that it's a possibility.

**401don** · January-18-13, 11:42 AM

http://www.freep.com/article/2013011...text|FRONTPAGE

Downtown is still busiest on event nights and the plan is to stop service each night at 10 pm?

**Hermod** · January-18-13, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by 401don

Downtown is still busiest on event nights and the plan is to stop service each night at 10 pm?

I thought the purpose of the three mile line was to allow Wayne State students to party at the downtown bars and get home without a DUI.

**rbdetsport** · January-18-13, 12:46 PM

I was at the announcement this morning. It was a great event with a lot of optimism and all of the movers and shakers of Detroit [[Dan Gilbert, Matt Cullen, Roger Penske, etc) Secretary Ray LaHood has also given an additional $6.5 million for the regional transit study. I think that is the biggest part that came out of the announcement today. We knew we were going to get M1 eventually, but to hear that the federal government is fully supporting the region is HUGE!

**Gistok** · January-18-13, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by Wheels

It's a 3mile train that will never generate enough funding to support itself.
Sound familiar?

Yes... it sounds like every other rail transit system in the country that the federal Department of Transportation supports... but we already knew that...

**bc_n_dtown** · January-18-13, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by Hermod

Curbside running on Woodward is nothing new.

Attachment 17920

Actually, the rails in this photo are in the center of the road, not along the curb. Almost the entire DSR street railway operation, with a few exceptions [[e.g. Manchester along-side the Ford HP plant) was center-of-the-road operation.

The photo angle in this photo is a little mis-leading. This was the DSR boarding zone that was located next to Kern's Dept Store, just south of Gratiot [[State) Street, which was always in the center of the street. Woodward northbound traffic traveled behind the intending passengers visible in photo. The photo below looks southbound and gives a better view of the same boarding zone, showing it located within center of road.

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**MrNittany** · January-18-13, 02:08 PM

Well, this certainly does sound like the downtown to Clifton streetcar that's in the process of being built in Cincinnati, huh? [[I'm a Detroit ex-pat now living in Mt Adams)

You're exactly right on the "social stigma" of buses: some people simply won't take them. When I lived in Oakley and worked downtown, I would take them about 40% of the time. Many of my neighbors thought I was crazy. And that was a fairly well-traveled line that really didn't go through any "bad neighborhoods."

And even if this is only a 3.5-mile stretch, it provides the potential to tap into a much larger base of people. Much like our line can be extended to Xavier, Hyde Park, Oakley, et cetera ..... Detroit's will hopefully be extended into Oakland County. Let's hope so.

Originally Posted by Cincinnati

To all of the detractors of the streetcar/light rail line, I think you are missing something.

A lot of you have mentioned that a bus will do the same thing as a rail line at a lower up-front cost. This is completely true. Rail is more expensive to implement than buses. It is also true that rail is cheaper to operate. In the extremely long-term scope, rail is cheaper the longer you operate the system.

This isn't the reason to build rail though. The reason to build rail is for the permanent investment that has been mentioned before. People feel better investing along a rail line because it isn't going to moved and it is seen as a higher-class amenity. People will ride rail who won't ride a bus. Put your own preferences aside. I, and many of my friends, will ride a bus any day. I personally don't mind riding a bus. I do know people who will not ride the bus. You may call that ignorant, or stupid, but the point is that people view rail differently. The M-1 will help revitalize the Woodward corridor, but there must be more done than just putting the line in.

Detroit should implement Form-Based Codes for Woodward Avenue. These codes would determine the relationship the buildings have with the street, forcing developers to build mixed-use structures that abut the sidewalk. They would require corner buildings to interact with both streets it joins. Buildings near stops would need to meet height requirements and density requirements to ensure that it is a destination throughout the whole route.

The new regional bus system would need to interact better with the city. Simple bus routes that travel large corridors would be required to feed into the rail. Free transfers from bus to rail would ensure people aren't turned away by the new system. There is a lot to be done besides the rail part of the project, but the rail portion is essential if any of you want Woodward to be a lively destination with improved economic conditions. You can't just sit on you hands and say "buses should be fine" because I agree, buses should be fine. But that isn't how most people feel.

Also, Greetings from Cincinnati!

**Flintoid** · January-18-13, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by Hermod

I thought the purpose of the three mile line was to allow Wayne State students to party at the downtown bars and get home without a DUI.

Hermod, according to the M1 rail report on their website the 6am to 10pm weekday hours will simply be peak hours. Their quote is: "Premium service with 10 minute headways during most of the day and 12-15 minutes early and late in the day and on weekends." So it sounds like it will indeed run later and on weekends. Exciting stuff!

M1 Rail Report: http://www.m-1rail.com/wp-content/up...2012_pages.pdf

**emu steve** · January-18-13, 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

But it is difficult to have a city without rail transit.

Quick pivot:

I looked at the M-1 plan. It has an Amtrk stop.

I note that Dearborn is planning an Amtrk stop along Michigan Ave. just west of Southfield.

This means that someone could take a train from Dearborn, Ann Arbor, etc. to the M-1 rail station and then head toward the CBD.

Might be too expensive to be practical but still I like it.

**emu steve** · January-18-13, 05:32 PM

This may sound silly but I wonder folks will park on the Woodward lots by Sibley and take the rail the few blocks to the Stadium/Foxtown station [[I know it doesn't hurt to walk a few blocks...) to Tiger games?

**bailey** · January-18-13, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by emu steve

Quick pivot:

I looked at the M-1 plan. It has an Amtrk stop.

I note that Dearborn is planning an Amtrk stop along Michigan Ave. just west of Southfield.

This means that someone could take a train from Dearborn, Ann Arbor, etc. to the M-1 rail station and then head toward the CBD.

Might be too expensive to be practical but still I like it.

or, if we lived in the first world, a rail line would run up Michigan Ave...

**dtowncitylover** · January-18-13, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by emu steve

This may sound silly but I wonder folks will park on the Woodward lots by Sibley and take the rail the few blocks to the Stadium/Foxtown station [[I know it doesn't hurt to walk a few blocks...) to Tiger games?

Hell, I'll park in the lot behind the DIA and take it from there.

On another note, the News' article, link below, on this states that the regional leadershave decided upon a 34-stop route for the 4 regional BRT lines for Oakland, Wayne, Macomb, and Metro Airport...where's the news about this?

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...RO01/301180334

I didn't realize how far along they seem to be...

**Hermod** · January-18-13, 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by Flintoid

Hermod, according to the M1 rail report on their website the 6am to 10pm weekday hours will simply be peak hours. Their quote is: "Premium service with 10 minute headways during most of the day and 12-15 minutes early and late in the day and on weekends." So it sounds like it will indeed run later and on weekends. Exciting stuff!

M1 Rail Report: http://www.m-1rail.com/wp-content/up...2012_pages.pdf

I don't know, the Washington DC area metro still doesn't accommodate late hours and the best connecting buses only run during the rush hours. If you have to work late, you are screwed.

**brizee** · January-18-13, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

Hell, I'll park in the lot behind the DIA and take it from there.

On another note, the News' article, link below, on this states that the regional leadershave decided upon a 34-stop route for the 4 regional BRT lines for Oakland, Wayne, Macomb, and Metro Airport...where's the news about this?

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...RO01/301180334

I didn't realize how far along they seem to be...

From the meeting I attended on the Woodward line, it sounds like alot of this is just being thrown out because that's what Snyder initially proposed.

The RTA board isn't even fully staffed yet.

The RTA rep said the Woodward line will be first, followed by Michigan/Gratiot, and maybe eventually down the line M-59.

They gave lipservice that in the end Light Rail could still be chosen for the entire Woodward project, but this area still seems to be in love with the bus.

**Richard** · January-18-13, 11:00 PM

Do not forget you also have the "high speed" train from Chicago to Detroit coming in 2014 which also needs to be tied in.

**emu steve** · January-19-13, 03:38 AM

Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

Hell, I'll park in the lot behind the DIA and take it from there.

On another note, the News' article, link below, on this states that the regional leadershave decided upon a 34-stop route for the 4 regional BRT lines for Oakland, Wayne, Macomb, and Metro Airport...where's the news about this?

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...RO01/301180334

I didn't realize how far along they seem to be...

What I'm wondering is once the system is up and running how will actual usage occur?

What parking patterns will occur which are not thought of today?

E.g., will parking lots and garages spring up [[e.g., for a new hockey arena along Woodward) and will folks park there and M-1 into the CBD?

**gthomas** · January-19-13, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by emu steve

What I'm wondering is once the system is up and running how will actual usage occur?

What parking patterns will occur which are not thought of today?

E.g., will parking lots and garages spring up [[e.g., for a new hockey arena along Woodward) and will folks park there and M-1 into the CBD?

Great point, even though we're in early stages of this project. I'm sure they will give more details and renderings of the whole plan. I'm wondering also if this development includes parking structures, maybe at the end of the New Center location and/or Sibley location. Will the new multi-modal transit center planned, south of the current Amtrak station be built along with the construction of this project. Hope to hear a solid, accurate plan of the system...wondering how the rail cars and stations will look.

**gthomas** · January-19-13, 02:06 PM

This is cool, http://www.coroflot.com/mhansson/Lig...o-Detroit-Area

**Wheels** · January-19-13, 02:59 PM

It could get interesting riding through the Woodward vortex!

Attachment 17948

**royce** · January-20-13, 09:25 AM

I know the plans are etched in stone, but if this rail-line is only going to New Center for the time being, why have it stop at Grand Blvd. Why not have it go to Henry Ford Hospital/Motown Museum area? With many folks moving to Midtown, I can only assume that some of those new residents will be working at Henry Ford Hospital. Also, if this light rail-line is considered to be more of a tourist-bus than rapid transit, then why not actually have a tourist's destination such as Motown Museum? If it is decided to extend the line beyond the Boulevard, then this can be the local line. Just a thought.